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patonthebach posted:I don't know why the die hard commies areally defending this fact gently caress when he runs the country more like saddam than castro Maybe because they aren't posting from a time bubble suspended in 2002 and know what effects the Iraq war had on the ME.
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Jan 30, 2019 17:45
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patonthebach posted:Hmm I wonder why that is. Half the country is starving but the ruling class is chunky? Odd. we're quite on board with you on that. it's just that we view what happened to Iraq after Saddam as a nightmarish maelstrom of chaos, death, looting, ethnic cleansing, and theocratic revanchism, a suppurating chest wound in the middle east that will take decades to return to even the low standard of human rights under Saddam, a failure in every conceivable sense of the term, and you view it as Mission Accomplished. bit of a values disconnect, imo.
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Jan 30, 2019 17:49
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not a cult posted:Maybe because they aren't posting from a time bubble suspended in 2002 and know what effects the Iraq war had on the ME. Edit: Except Russia apparently.
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Jan 30, 2019 17:49
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I suspect the actual difference btwn most of the pro/anti-maduros ppl in this thread aren't actually that great and mostly comes down to how much US support you think makes the opposition (tm) illegitimate. I can also totally understand the PoV of
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Jan 30, 2019 17:52
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Typo posted:how come he's so fat if his people are starving The bird possesed by the spirit of Chavismo that follows Maduro around and tells him what to do makes hallacas non stop.
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Jan 30, 2019 17:55
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Maduro was inoculated with the  cancer causing virus and has a giant tumor in his stomachit is the only revolutionary possibility
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Jan 30, 2019 18:02
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did someone itt actually think the US assassinates people with cancer virus?
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Jan 30, 2019 18:05
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No, just defending a news site that believes chavez was assassinated by constantly being dosed with radioactive materials over years by the CIA.
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Jan 30, 2019 18:09
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Furia posted:Maduro was inoculated with the ChaseSP posted:No, just defending a news site that believes chavez was assassinated by constantly being dosed with radioactive materials over years by the CIA. I believe it was Maduro himself who said that the CIA infected Chavez with an oncovirus. To be fair, colorectal cancer (what Chavez had) has been linked to HPV, but HPV is not a systemic virus, so infecting the colon would require direct physical inoculation of that area.
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Jan 30, 2019 18:15
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GoLambo posted:Whatever legitimacy the National Assembly may have previously had is gone now, they've clearly signed on full tilt with Elliot Hyper-Satan Abrams and made basically no effort to ensure they came out looking clean. A party interested in democratic process would never actually allow such a scum sucking ghoul to be declared their special envoy, like that wouldn't completely tank their domestic credibility to even be seen working with him, but they've made zero effort to walk that poo poo back even an inch. They're bought, it's over. You have all the information you need to be informed on the matter. What evidence have you seen that the legitimacy of the National Assembly has tanked? How are you measuring "domestic credibility," and how did you come to the conclusion that it has tanked? These statement's sound like they are based on empirical observations, and so we can have more content in the thread than just our opinions, it would be nice if you could share them.
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Jan 30, 2019 18:18
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elgatofilo posted:I believe it was Maduro himself who said that the CIA infected Chavez with an oncovirus. Well, they have to smuggle the 200 tons of gold somehow
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Jan 30, 2019 18:19
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Typo posted:did someone itt actually think the US assassinates people with cancer virus? Somebody honest to god said that the possibility of Chavez being assassinated was worth considering Another said it’d be more surprising if that wasn’t the case The argument descended to crimes committed with radioactive material because why the gently caress not
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Jan 30, 2019 18:32
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patonthebach posted:I don't know why the die hard commies areally defending this fact gently caress when he runs the country more like saddam than castro A fat, stupid populist who eats bad stakes, has a bad haircut and with a hard on for authoritarianism. Maduro is Trump for Tankies.
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Jan 30, 2019 19:06
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Cancer guns help fight the ECONOMIC WAR
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Jan 30, 2019 19:10
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Furia posted:Maduro was inoculated with the Holy poo poo, are the CIA using DARK FORCES on Maduro just like they did to Chavez? But I thought that game wasn't canon anymore?
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Jan 30, 2019 20:19
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DoctorStrangelove posted:Holy poo poo, are the CIA using DARK FORCES on Maduro just like they did to Chavez? But I thought that game wasn't canon anymore? It’s not but it’s still part of Venezuela Legends.
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Jan 30, 2019 20:37
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Who's gonna steal the Estrella de la Muerte plans?
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Jan 30, 2019 20:48
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Negrostrike posted:Who's gonna steal the Estrella de la Muerte plans? Los espias Bothaneses
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Jan 30, 2019 21:07
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ChaseSP posted:No, just defending a news site that believes chavez was assassinated by constantly being dosed with radioactive materials over years by the CIA. what's the website?
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Jan 30, 2019 21:19
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Venezuela Analysis, which was called “one of the few remaining impartial sources” or something euqally dumb. The quote in question: quote:https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/11959
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Jan 30, 2019 21:46
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like from a biological-science perspective, is there such a thing as cancer causing virus? I mean the first time I heard about it was literally alex jones but ppl are taking it serious?
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Jan 30, 2019 21:56
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Apparently there are israeli mercs in Brazil:
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Jan 30, 2019 22:02
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Typo posted:like from a biological-science perspective, is there such a thing as cancer causing virus? There are certain viruses that are linked to cancer, which are known as oncoviruses. As El Gatofilo (which I still wonder if is gatofilo or gatofiló ie. cat lover or cat edge) mentioned, HPV is linked to cancer for instance. Now you may wonder why if Chavez had access to the best medicine that Radiation, as the alternative vector proposed and as everyone knows, can cause cancer. Typically this takes a couple decades but people would like to have you believe that if you took a high enough dose of radiation you would get cancer in a week and, I dunno, not die of radiation poisoning in the process. I mentioned the Demon Core in one of my responses, and it’s worth a read if you want to get a feel for what I mean. Yes, people are taking this seriously. No, I don’t know if they’re just being ironic anti vaxxers or straight up anti vaxxers
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Jan 30, 2019 22:11
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Typo posted:like from a biological-science perspective, is there such a thing as cancer causing virus? They exist...the 'oncoviruses' They're not common, but they're out there. The most famous is HPV, which has been linked to cervical cancer. There's a Herpes virus that's been linked to Karposi's Sarcoma, which is why you see Karposi's in AIDS patients. Their immune system is ruined and that makes them vulnerable. Hepatitis has been linked to liver cancer. There are some other viruses that have been linked to other types of cancer too. Its silly to say that Chavez's cancer was caused by an artificial virus, of course. That's just Maduro being Maduro. But oncoviruses exist.
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Jan 30, 2019 22:14
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Typo posted:like from a biological-science perspective, is there such a thing as cancer causing virus? There are at least a handful of cancer-causing viruses, of which HPV is probably the most well-known, which causes ovarian cancer. There is probably not such a virus for whatever Chavez had. So while the odds are better that the CIA infected Chavez with cancer virus than the possibility that Cuba developed and used a hypersonic weapon to give concussions to US and Canadian embassy staff, it's still pretty close to zero. Unfortunately it's sufficiently higher than zero such that it can be believed by some people who are not suffering from debilitating mental disorders. E: Well that was a lot of posts all at once. That his cancer was caused by radiation is an incredibly dumb and blatantly disprovable fact, although it would require exhuming his body.
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Jan 30, 2019 22:14
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If you read the full interview rather than two little selected quotes there is a fair amount of skepticism given by the person making the claim. She says it seems like science fiction, but the repeated previous attempts on Chavez's life and circumstances after his death lead her to believe something happened. She was also a close friend of Chavez, so it could just be grief loving with someone. I don't think an interview invalidates an entire website.
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Jan 30, 2019 22:19
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Presenting Nipples posted:If you read the full interview rather than two little selected quotes there is a fair amount of skepticism given by the person making the claim. She says it seems like science fiction, but the repeated previous attempts on Chavez's life and circumstances after his death lead her to believe something happened. The article is titled “I believe Chavez was assassinated” and ir was not the first time they ran a story like that. Not to mention that it was a party line and Maduro launched an “investigation” This is not counting the fact that yes, if they go ahead and run with that editorial line without any form of fact checking it does affect their credibility as a newsource. Same reason that Alex “gay frogs” Jones can be safely discounted without even having to look at his stupid politics e: also that question was offered by VA, not by the interviewee
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Jan 30, 2019 22:27
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To be fair attempting assassination via cancer or irradiation is totally within character of the CIA, given the ludicrous plots that were a part of Operation Mongoose and all. What suspends belief more is the idea that they'd succeed with it.
Catgirl Al Capone fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jan 30, 2019 |
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Jan 30, 2019 22:33
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Apparently there are israeli mercs in Brazil: The Israeli "mercs" are far away in Minas Gerais participating in the search of bodies from the dam collapse.
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Jan 30, 2019 22:35
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Furia posted:The article is titled “I believe Chavez was assassinated” and ir was not the first time they ran a story like that. Not to mention that it was a party line and Maduro launched an “investigation” What facts are you disputing in the article? She doesn't say it is a fact that Chavez was assassinated, but that she believes if happens based on the circumstances surrounding his death. She says she believes the US has at least researched these types of weapons, there have been assassination attempts on Chavez in the past, and people close to Chavez fled to the US after his death. I don't really give enough of a poo poo to research each of these points on the merits as it would take hours but they seem plausible enough. It's not like the US hasn't attempted assassinations in the past. To be clear I don't really give a poo poo about the article or the topic of the events surrounding Chavez murder. You are conveniently ignoring that most posters view Venezuela Analysis as biased, but all sources are biased. You are conflating one poster with everyone who disagrees with you. I literally just listened to the US press corp laughing when Pompeo said he would rather not bring up the CIA, as they have a bad history in Latin America. Does that discount all mainstream US press due to bias? At the very least, it seems useful to try to look at multiple sources and perspectives to better comprehend the situation in Venezuela.
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Jan 30, 2019 22:46
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Presenting Nipples posted:To be clear I don't really give a poo poo about the article or the topic of the events surrounding Chavez murder. You are conveniently ignoring that most posters view Venezuela Analysis as biased, but all sources are biased. You are conflating one poster with everyone who disagrees with you. I literally just listened to the US press corp laughing when Pompeo said he would rather not bring up the CIA, as they have a bad history in Latin America. Does that discount all mainstream US press due to bias? At the very least, it seems useful to try to look at multiple sources and perspectives to better comprehend the situation in Venezuela. I disagree with the implication that Chavez was assassinated, which is what the article implies and what the interviewer leads the interviewee to saying by means of questioning. I could do a full read and explain the article on its own merits from the perspective of a Venezuelan before and after Chavez’ death (and illness, which was almost a state secret), but it would just get ignored and I’m not in the habit of wasting my time. “All sources are biased” is a weak loving way of defending propaganda. I don’t see you quoting CIA.gov and interpreting it on it’s own merits. Is it that us Venezuelans are noble savages incapable of the sin of propaganda? Who knows. No, I am not conflating “all posters who disagree with me”. I said “one poster said this dumb loving thing, another said this” implying a grand total of two people that went to die on this hill, which is accurate. You identify with people who hold dumb loving opinions that’s on you. If a website actively promotes a dumb way of thinking about a subject, it can safely be discarded as unreliable, specially if it leads a person in the process of grieving (your own words) to such an abhorrently erroneous line of thought. This is not a difficult puzzle to solve. I don’t understand why you are brining up Pompeo (?) and the CIA thing. Are you implying I said the CIA does not have a bad history in LatAm? If so, maybe you should refrain from posting until you find me a post where I did. Do I believe the CIA can cause cancer on command to kill people? No. Is this simple enough for you yet?
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Jan 30, 2019 22:58
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Furia posted:I disagree with the implication that Chavez was assassinated, which is what the article implies and what the interviewer leads the interviewee to saying by means of questioning. I could do a full read and explain the article on its own merits from the perspective of a Venezuelan before and after Chavez’ death (and illness, which was almost a state secret), but it would just get ignored and I’m not in the habit of wasting my time. It actually is a pretty difficult puzzle to solve. Every website I have read has at one time or another "actively promotes a dumb way of thinking about a subject". I cited the US press because they constantly promote dumb ways of thinking, particularly on US foreign policy, indicative of them laughing at genocide. They essentially operate as a propaganda. What sources would you recommend?
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Jan 30, 2019 23:07
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Presenting Nipples posted:It actually is a pretty difficult puzzle to solve. Every website I have read has at one time or another "actively promotes a dumb way of thinking about a subject". I cited the US press because they constantly promote dumb ways of thinking, particularly on US foreign policy, indicative of them laughing at genocide. They essentially operate as a propaganda. What sources would you recommend? I see it wasn’t simple enough and there has been some miscommunication. Let me make it very explicit: if you need to ignore an author’s ramblings about reptilians to get to their policy opinions which are totally super good honest bro, maybe that source isn’t very reliable. Regarding reporting you can always keep yourself informed through Venezuelans that you know in the country (lol, like you do) and NGOs that release reports on nutrition, mortality and politics. UNICEF is quite good in this regard with Venezuela. In the small matter of “does the CIA have means to cause cancer on command to dispatch politically inconvenient people” I don’t know what to tell you other that your system and your teachers have failed you.
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Jan 30, 2019 23:14
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Venezuela analysis was literally originally funded (at least in part) by the Venezuela government and its chief editor is a Bolivian Revolutionary supporter. There is absolutely no way it should be taken to be an unbiased source in any of its "reporting"
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Jan 30, 2019 23:37
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Furia posted:I see it wasn’t simple enough and there has been some miscommunication. Let me make it very explicit: if you need to ignore an author’s ramblings about reptilians to get to their policy opinions which are totally super good honest bro, maybe that source isn’t very reliable. So if my friend from Venezuela believes Chavez was assassinated, I should trust them. Got it. Also, the CIA has done research on attempting to induce cancer. It's literally the first google search of 'CIA Cancer'. https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/document/cia-rdp80-00926a007500110008-1 Doing just 5 seconds of searching I found additional FOIA documents which cover other attempts to develop methods to induce cancer. Another quick google search from the Scientific American says it isn't impossible and there are cases where cancer has been transmitted accidentally https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-cancer-contagious/ I mean, I guess the Scientific American could also in the pockets of the Alex Jones VenzeulaAnalysis Troika of Disinformation, but that seems unlikely.
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Jan 30, 2019 23:39
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Presenting Nipples posted:So if my friend from Venezuela believes Chavez was assassinated, I should trust them. Got it. Well I guess Chavez was assassinated despite any proof towards it then. Also, did you read that article? quote:Why hasn’t contagious cancer evolved in humans? e: Do you usually pull information out of the aether and then find articles to confirm your ideas? I want to know what your process is (not that I would take it into account as you do not seem very smart Furia fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Jan 30, 2019 |
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Jan 30, 2019 23:41
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Saladman posted:There are at least a handful of cancer-causing viruses, of which HPV is probably the most well-known, which causes ovarian cancer. There is probably not such a virus for whatever Chavez had. We simply don't know enough about oncogenes and oncoviruses to deliberately engineer one that would fool-proof give someone cancer. You could potentially engineer one that gave someone a fulminant viremia or some kind of lethal auto-immune reaction, but engineering oncoviruses is in the realm of science fiction at the moment. HPV is known to cause colorectal cancer because it's a virus that essentially causes small tumors (warts) to grow and the way it inserts itself into the host genome has the potential to overwrite antioncogenes. That being said, obesity, a sedentary lifestyle, and a diet high in red meats (all things Chavez had, and apparently Maduro as well) have effect sizes orders of magnitude larger than any virus in there cancer-causing effects. If the CIA wanted to give Chavez cancer, they could have just sent him a lifetime membership to Applebee's and that would have been much more effective than any sci-fi oncovirus.
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Jan 30, 2019 23:42
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Good to see this thread went to the tankies territory of "cia caused chavez cancer" and "anyone else is worse than maduro"
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Jan 30, 2019 23:48
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Furia posted:Well I guess Chavez was assassinated despite any proof towards it then. quote:Would it be possible to induce cancer in someone else—not by giving the person cancer but by exposing him or her to something that causes cancer? It isn't even clear if the author thinks it is unlikely based on the science or based on her own moral judgement. It seems more like it is the latter. I'm sure the CIA is of the moral character to not attempt it.
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Jan 30, 2019 23:52
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Presenting Nipples posted:You are conveniently ignoring that most posters view Venezuela Analysis as biased, but all sources are biased. "Bias" isn't the problem, so much as when "biased" crosses the line into "dishonest."
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Jan 31, 2019 00:05
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