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super fart shooter posted:Are you just chopping trees by hand? I can't imagine how else you wove the rail station into the forest like that. It looks nice, anyway I use one of the mods that start you off with 20 construction bots. Somehow I lost one despite there being no enemies, maybe it is slowly chasing me from some distant base.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:39
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:All this talk of "warehouses" makes me really wish there were a 3x3 building with the same functionality as a chest. Plus maybe give it discrete internal storage areas so you can sort and filter it or something. I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but there are mods that are pretty much that. Some of them actually have internal physically areas you can enter and place buildings in. If you want to keep it vanilla, a stationary train car on a little bit of rail accomplishes some of the same things.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:45
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Toast Museum posted:I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but there are mods that are pretty much that. Some of them actually have internal physically areas you can enter and place buildings in. I'm not! I was asking about mods earlier (because I haven't looked into them much and wasn't sure where to start) and a stationary train car sounds like a great stopgap.
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Jan 29, 2019 21:13
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Check out "Warehousing" for big warehouses for storage, and Factorissimo 2 for buildings you can walk into
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Jan 29, 2019 21:39
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Warehousing is one of those mods that I can't play without anymore. They're way too useful, especially when combined with loaders. The smaller storehouses are 3x3 and have 150 slots, while the larger warehouses are 6x6 and have 800 slots.
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Jan 29, 2019 22:12
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DoubleNegative posted:Warehousing is one of those mods that I can't play without anymore. They're way too useful, especially when combined with loaders. The smaller storehouses are 3x3 and have 150 slots, while the larger warehouses are 6x6 and have 800 slots. Do you use the 3x3 ones? I only ever use the big ones.
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Jan 29, 2019 22:29
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LLSix posted:Do you use the 3x3 ones? I only ever use the big ones. While I do use the big ones more often, I still keep a stack of the smaller ones in my inventory in case I need them. I think the last one I put down was to hold low density structures for the rocket silo.
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Jan 29, 2019 22:39
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super fart shooter posted:Are you just chopping trees by hand? I can't imagine how else you wove the rail station into the forest like that. It looks nice, anyway Shift-clicking a blueprint onto natural things will make bots take out only the things in the way 
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Jan 29, 2019 22:50
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e: Nevermind, this was a pretty basic math question that took me too long to figure out. Follow-up, though: if I want to mix Speed and Productivity modules in science production such that I end up with higher productivity, but the exact same amount of overall production, how do I do it? e: A rough approximate isn't too bad, but I'd still like a perfect ratio; two Productivity 3 modules is -30% speed, so .7 of normal speed, 1 / 0.7 is about 1.42, so two Speed 1 slightly undercompensates, and a single Speed 3 overcompensates. e2: wait is it actually just additive? literally just have equal amounts of speed bonuses and speed penalties across all machines? e3: no; additive works for inputs but outputs are more complex since speed and productivity bonuses interact Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 30, 2019 |
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Jan 30, 2019 00:39
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:e: Nevermind, this was a pretty basic math question that took me too long to figure out. Put speed in beacons and productivity in the labs.
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Jan 30, 2019 07:43
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:e: Nevermind, this was a pretty basic math question that took me too long to figure out. Stacking 2 Speed 2s on a beacon and having 2 Prod 3s on the lab should neutralize any speed loss, but if you're at beacon stage you should be trying for max speed (unless your science production can't keep up) If you're worried about ratios, that might get trickier, because then you're comparing decimals with 2 and 4 significant digits to match up... harder to work with than just whole numbers.
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Jan 30, 2019 08:22
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:All this talk of "warehouses" makes me really wish there were a 3x3 building with the same functionality as a chest. Plus maybe give it discrete internal storage areas so you can sort and filter it or something. There is a mod for large chest structures. It's even called the warehouse mod afaik. Discrete storage is a bit of a no-no tho.
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Jan 30, 2019 08:48
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:e: Nevermind, this was a pretty basic math question that took me too long to figure out. The extreme resource cost of level three Modules pays off fastest if you maximize speed beacons around a minimum number of labs/assemblers because the productivity bonus is calculated once every cycle.
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Jan 30, 2019 12:09
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nullEntityRNG posted:but if you're at beacon stage you should be trying for max speed (unless your science production can't keep up) what no Anything speed related can be solved with more parallel machines (ie more labs) MUCH cheaper than putting speed beacons in. Productivity modules grant straight-up free resources, in labs especially, and should absolutely be prioritized 100%. Speed in beacons is fine.
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Jan 30, 2019 12:10
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Honestly you don't even need to speed up the labs. Once you can support between 10 and 15 labs going simultaneously, which is completely effortless by the time you can research high tech science packs, you can just fill the labs with as many productivity as they'll fit and then just ignore then for the rest of the game. Trust me, unless you're researching the "balanced" Factorissimo 2 recursion tech, you will not notice the minor speed decreases from prod modules. For reference.
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Jan 30, 2019 12:35
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Power cost is something you should also think about. A lab uses 60 kW while a beacon uses 480 kW. Then consider that a speed 3 beacon increases lab energy cost by 70%. Each beacon by itself costs as much as 8 labs not counting the 1.7 multiplier to each lab it hits. It's way cheaper to stuff your labs full of production then just build more labs if you want more research. Nuclear of course ultimately trivializes energy but even then you don't have infinite power. It's way cheaper to just build more labs.
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Jan 30, 2019 12:43
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Again: production on their own take such a speed hit that you’re not getting the full benefit. Think of adding speed beacons like speeding up the production of those ‘free’ resources. The cheat sheet page has an example and a chart even.
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Jan 30, 2019 13:45
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In the case of labs you can speed them up like crazy with research. The speed hit just isn't a big deal in that case.
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Jan 30, 2019 14:11
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DoubleNegative posted:Honestly you don't even need to speed up the labs. Once you can support between 10 and 15 labs going simultaneously, which is completely effortless by the time you can research high tech science packs, you can just fill the labs with as many productivity as they'll fit and then just ignore then for the rest of the game. Trust me, unless you're researching the "balanced" Factorissimo 2 recursion tech, you will not notice the minor speed decreases from prod modules. Hold my 
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Jan 30, 2019 16:41
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Prod in labs and in the more expensive packs has additional benefits upstream - you need 83% as many packs with 2-prodded labs, and 71% as many ingredients for 4-prodded packs. Adding more prod in those ingredients (blue chips in particular) reduces the upstream costs even more, which mostly comes down to green chips in the case of yellow packs. Until you start trying to hit certain research/minute targets, you can get away with the speed hit by just building more labs/assemblers. Beacons are for when the costs of speed3s are less of an issue, you have a big nuke plant up or have spent hours paving the desert with solar panels, and you're trying to save space. Notably for bot-based builds where the throw distance becomes an issue.
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Jan 30, 2019 17:31
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Evilreaver posted:what no Yeah but for every lab you put down you also need 2 prod 3s for. 1 beacon with 2 speed modules (50%) effecting 6 labs means you have an effective 9 labs for the cost of 14 modules. If you had 9 labs with just the two prod modules, you're already at 18 modules to meet the same throughput as the beacon version. That's an overall loss of 4 modules. I mean yeah more labs is always the answer, but unless I did my math horribly wrong here, speed would be better if you wanted to optimize your resources to science first rather than modules first.
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Jan 30, 2019 20:19
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nullEntityRNG posted:Yeah but for every lab you put down you also need 2 prod 3s for. 1 beacon with 2 speed modules (50%) effecting 6 labs means you have an effective 9 labs for the cost of 14 modules. If you had 9 labs with just the two prod modules, you're already at 18 modules to meet the same throughput as the beacon version. That's an overall loss of 4 modules. My point is that speeds go in beacons, never put speeds anywhere else except pumpjacks. Any module slot that *can* accept a productivity mod but has a speed in it instead gives me the angries
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Jan 30, 2019 20:22
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I'm not nearly that far advanced, I was just trying to find a way to conserve resources while still keeping my science output balanced for each type. (That is, keep producing exactly 2.25 yellow science / sec, but using fewer blue chips to do it.) It was silly of me and the real solution is just tearing up my antiquated single-track railway and replacing it with a loop so I can get better iron throughput.
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Jan 30, 2019 20:26
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Speeds in non-prod-accepting products can be advantageous as well (if you have the power to spare). They can significantly shorten transport lines (either belts or bots) by requiring fewer machines, thereby putting producers closer to consumers. I also like speed1s in miners before getting to high mining prod (especially on maps with smaller, denser patches) and in module assemblers. They are also nice in products that take a long time to craft but aren't necessarily expensive, like engines. Space may be infinite, but it's not always free.
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Jan 30, 2019 20:32
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For anyone who is relatively new to the game or who isn't building mega factories, please know that none of this really matters until you're building truly ridiculous factories or trying to get multiple rockets per minute. You're fine just building more labs.
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Jan 30, 2019 20:38
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I've recently been having a lot of fun with the Texugo TA miners mod. Much quicker to set up one of them at an outpost rather than dealing with a mass of miners and belts. I wouldn't say Warehousing is a required mod but highly recommended to use in conjunction. The biggest one sucks up a 50x50 box of ore and can pump out four continuous blue belts of ore. They're fun when you're using RSO and you get far enough away from the start to start getting patches in the hundreds of million
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Jan 30, 2019 20:52
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Roflex posted:Speeds in non-prod-accepting products can be advantageous as well (if you have the power to spare). They can significantly shorten transport lines (either belts or bots) by requiring fewer machines, thereby putting producers closer to consumers. I also like speed1s in miners before getting to high mining prod (especially on maps with smaller, denser patches) and in module assemblers. They are also nice in products that take a long time to craft but aren't necessarily expensive, like engines. Space may be infinite, but it's not always free. Your mileage may vary of course, but I take pride in my redchip lines becoming 75 assemblers long, crammed full of Prod3s with 4x speed beacon coverage per assembler
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Jan 30, 2019 21:20
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Beaconing is at a scale thats not necessary for your first 20 hours which leaves a small window where you might want 3 prods and 1 speed in assemblers to help you scale to the point you can poo poo beacons at everything.
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Jan 30, 2019 21:50
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zedprime posted:Beaconing is at a scale thats not necessary for your first 20 hours which leaves a small window where you might want 3 prods and 1 speed in assemblers to help you scale to the point you can poo poo beacons at everything. this is exactly what i ended up doing  i'm glad i'm slowly stumbling down a well-trod path
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Jan 30, 2019 21:56
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Roflex posted:Speeds in non-prod-accepting products can be advantageous as well (if you have the power to spare). They can significantly shorten transport lines (either belts or bots) by requiring fewer machines, thereby putting producers closer to consumers. I also like speed1s in miners before getting to high mining prod (especially on maps with smaller, denser patches) and in module assemblers. They are also nice in products that take a long time to craft but aren't necessarily expensive, like engines. Space may be infinite, but it's not always free. 3 efficiency, 1 speed in yellow factories that can't take production really massively reduces energy needs.
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Jan 30, 2019 23:57
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On a different note, two closely related questions: - Is there any way to generate random noise via the circuit network? - Is there any way to permanently trap / enclose a biter (or better yet, a biter nest) without destroying it?
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Jan 31, 2019 01:15
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:On a different note, two closely related questions: I don’t have the screenshots, but I know back in the day some online goon game had a farm using belts and turrets surrounding a nest that somehow constantly delivered artifacts over time. It was like some sort of hellish bitter torture chamber, it was impressive.
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Jan 31, 2019 01:30
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:On a different note, two closely related questions: - RNG ideas here - A ring of blue belts pointing inwards? Or get a mod that allows you to build trees/water/cliffs around it. e: Actually, I like the blue belt idea the more I think about it. Build it on an attack route into your base, and it will be like a black hole, sucking in biters and trapping them forever 
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Jan 31, 2019 01:34
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Thanks guys.Manyorcas posted:It was like some sort of hellish bitter torture chamber, it was impressive. I want to make a petting zoo. 
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Jan 31, 2019 01:40
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Thanks guys. Have I got the video series for you! https://youtu.be/83KSIH4dJg8
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Jan 31, 2019 01:50
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Ceyton posted:- RNG ideas here Why not both. Have a ring of blue belts pointing inwards that has several radars nearby close enough to be hit by a spitter. The biters will prioritize the radars over the belts and get one hit off before being whisked away. Each is covered by a roboport repair bot. When the roboport drops below 1 (empty when it leaves to repair), trigger a signal unique to that port. Now for my next trick ill be herding cats...
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Jan 31, 2019 02:19
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M_Gargantua posted:I've recently been having a lot of fun with the Texugo TA miners mod. Much quicker to set up one of them at an outpost rather than dealing with a mass of miners and belts. I wouldn't say Warehousing is a required mod but highly recommended to use in conjunction. The biggest one sucks up a 50x50 box of ore and can pump out four continuous blue belts of ore. Thanks for mentioning the TA miner mod, that's exactly what I needed to get over the tedium of setting up yet another mining outpost.
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Jan 31, 2019 15:08
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Ceyton posted:- RNG ideas here I am very bored at work and a speed run of Factorio came up on my YouTube queue so I decided to watch it. At one point instead of using walls around his mining outposts the guy playing started placing a ring of conveyors pointing away from the defenses, knowing biter AI would prioritize the turrets while ignoring the belts that were pushing them away where as normal walls would also become a target. In the many hours I've put in to this game, and many times I've had to deal with intruders getting caught on conveyer systems I never would've thought to try that myself. Still learning new tricks after all this time with the game.
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Jan 31, 2019 20:10
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Link? A factorio speed run that utilizes cool tricks sounds like a good time killer.
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Jan 31, 2019 20:16
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I believe this is the one I watched: https://youtu.be/rMb5Bu96hX8
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Jan 31, 2019 20:19
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