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Ravenfood posted:Is thrones actually good now? I never played the original version, but other than a seeming lack of AI intelligence at the campaign level (which makes for a lack of mid/late game challenge), it's really good right now. The lack of agents, the recruitment mechanics and the faction variety (within the relatively limited setting, at least) makes it a really cool game. It's not super expensive either, if you keep an eye on sales (https://isthereanydeal.com/game/totalwarsagathronesofbritannia/info/)
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Jan 20, 2019 19:58
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Finished that Republic of Nagoaka run. It was a fun slugging match, but when I was leapfrogging around Choshu the normal difficulty became pretty apparent since there was no aggression. I can't believe this game is like 8 years old now.
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Jan 21, 2019 19:01
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So, I recently reinstalled Attila; has anyone tried the Ancient Empire mod with it?
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Jan 22, 2019 18:22
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Is Attila the only total war where units have like 1 hp and actually die at once when charged, or shot at or get swords at them. Looks sad when someone gets hit by 5 arrows and keeps running or goes flying from a cavalry charge and then just gets up again. These games would be better with less focus on balance and more on visual spectacle.
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Jan 22, 2019 18:50
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Attila, Rome 1, Medieval 2 and Shogun 2 and the gunpowder games operate on the 1-2 hit KO rules. Attila just tends to be extra nasty about flanking and rear charge bonuses
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Jan 22, 2019 19:31
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Thrones still has the problem where it seems either like you'll play for hours without a battle or make one wrong move that unites the entire continent against you. It's a shame because I like the battles, the game just never wants me to play them.
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Jan 23, 2019 03:01
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Attilla technically still uses unit health though? Pretty sure that came in with R2 and was in every game since (Attilla, Warhammer (where it does make sense) and Thrones)
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Jan 23, 2019 03:12
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Attila units have HP like in Warhammer. It's just that the way the numbers work out the combat is much deadlier. Charge bonuses on shock cav are >200. Javelins have 100+ damage.
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Jan 23, 2019 03:14
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Blooming Brilliant posted:It depends how "aggressive" the AI is in its attempts to sabotage you. If every AI you meet tries to undermine you, I can see it getting tiresome real fast.
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Jan 23, 2019 11:11
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Couldn't the AI recruit your spy as a general and then lose him in an crappy autoresolve?
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Jan 23, 2019 11:40
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Azran posted:Couldn't the AI recruit your spy as a general and then lose him in an crappy autoresolve? https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1088089000466935808 This video also has units now having their rank displayed as a Roman numeral (instead of counting rods) over a background colored according to the unit type's corresponding element, a few unit overviews, and a troop count for the generals indicating that this is our first glimpse of Classic Mode.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:08
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Also they have the Mandarin voice lines turned on, though that was already confirmed.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJLMFslpnIk https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/01/24/three-hours-in-total-war-three-kingdoms-the-first-total-war-soap-opera/ Media people had access to campaign playthroughs, probably more previews coming.
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Jan 24, 2019 16:21
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e: Every preview collated in one reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/ajd8aj/total_war_three_kingdoms_campaign_gameplay_event/
Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 18:13
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i haven't been paying much attention to this game but the development of the character and diplomacy systems (esp as their interactions are explained by the rps article) looks real good.
Zane fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 18:25
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Okay, I'll be honest after watching all the previews: I think the campaign for this game will be fantastic but the battles look kinda bad. The animations on the normal soldiers look honestly Rome 1 level simple, with a complete lack of sync kill animations. They changed the UI so you no longer see circles representing where your troops will actually stand. Instead you just get a box and I'm not sure if it indicates in any way how many ranks deep a line is(?) - which doesn't matter because the units don't really give the impression of being in an organized line as opposed to being a mob standing in a field. Arrows have a bad looking explosive effect when they hit something instead of sticking into it. I honestly think the battles in Thrones look way better, which is incredibly disappointing given how interested I am in a good Three Kingdoms game. The duels system looks cool but it's just an animation. You can spam abilities whenever they reach their cooldown, I guess. It feels like a MOBA-lite with that system, or Warhammer with less interesting hero characters. I'll probably stick with Classic mode for that reason - not because of 'realism' but because battles built on maneuver and terrain are more interesting gameplay-wise to me. e: the arrow thing might just be when they hit heroes, tbf Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Jan 25, 2019 |
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Jan 25, 2019 09:07
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My main concern will be with too infrequent battles. Sure, I've got my WH games to play 5 battles per turn later into campaign, but sometimes you just want to smash two fancy formations of samey troops.
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Jan 25, 2019 11:07
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Mantis42 posted:Okay, I'll be honest after watching all the previews: I think the campaign for this game will be fantastic but the battles look kinda bad. The animations on the normal soldiers look honestly Rome 1 level simple, with a complete lack of sync kill animations. They changed the UI so you no longer see circles representing where your troops will actually stand. Instead you just get a box and I'm not sure if it indicates in any way how many ranks deep a line is(?) - which doesn't matter because the units don't really give the impression of being in an organized line as opposed to being a mob standing in a field. Arrows have a bad looking explosive effect when they hit something instead of sticking into it. I honestly think the battles in Thrones look way better, which is incredibly disappointing given how interested I am in a good Three Kingdoms game. The issues with mobs of men and crappy looking projectiles are warhammer issues and I do wonder how it's gonna end up. Warhammer leans a lot on its good and very varied rosters but the underlying battle mechanics are... Messy.
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Jan 25, 2019 20:49
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The biggest issue I have with Warhammer is the speed mechanic and the health pool. Routing an enemy army more often than not means that a good half of their forces escape because they have one point higher speed than your troops so they can't be run down, and the health pool means even if you catch them with fast cavalry, the cavalryman could knock over the same model three times and not kill him, while the rest of the troops escape.
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Jan 25, 2019 21:07
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I agree that having an unit of Chaos Chosen retreat with 3% of HP and 30% of models is annoying, but for me it's a part of balancing. Same as undead not getting to realistically flee the field. Some factions in lore would get routed and reform, others (like Dwarves) absolutely need to hold the field.
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Jan 28, 2019 09:51
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Mantis42 posted:Okay, I'll be honest after watching all the previews: I think the campaign for this game will be fantastic but the battles look kinda bad. The animations on the normal soldiers look honestly Rome 1 level simple, with a complete lack of sync kill animations. They changed the UI so you no longer see circles representing where your troops will actually stand. Instead you just get a box and I'm not sure if it indicates in any way how many ranks deep a line is(?) - which doesn't matter because the units don't really give the impression of being in an organized line as opposed to being a mob standing in a field. Arrows have a bad looking explosive effect when they hit something instead of sticking into it. I honestly think the battles in Thrones look way better, which is incredibly disappointing given how interested I am in a good Three Kingdoms game. Agreed on arrows. It legit looked better in M2/S2 when they just hit the ground without extra effects. Rome 1 melee still looks better than the clunky sync kills of S2/R2/etc. to me. Those sync kills not only looked bad zoomed in or out, they adversely affected gameplay in a few titles. I don't think the simple animations in 3K look great, but the interactions look better than R2/Attila for sure. The simple-style animations are best paired with R1/M2's tug-of-war where units would push each other back as they were winning and more soldiers would rush from the back lines to the front to get their shots in. In recent games, there's just a static frontline that happens after the first charge that everybody walks up to when it's their turn and it looks bad to have guys edge forward to take their turn on the frontline instead of the old way of everybody rushing in to get a quick cheap shot. It had less of that awkward rotating in place stuff that really takes me out of the battles in some games. Man, I miss the tug-of-war system. It's still one of my favorite features in a TW game and it sucks it's been gone since Empire. I loved seeing my center start to collapse while my flanks would naturally wrap around the main body to form a Cannae-style cauldron. Or bridge battles where the attackers would try to just push through any opening on the bridgehead that they could to try to break the main line.
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Jan 29, 2019 22:50
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i feel like that didn't really work that well in med 2. you'd get guys standing in the back and have to click through the other side of the guys you're fighting to get everyone to move up
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Jan 29, 2019 23:19
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Oh sure. There was that video "Why Rome 2 Failed" made years and years ago that got everyone to hate sync combat (and I tend to agree with it). However, sync kills are a bit different from sync combat, they only trigger on unit death and are just an animated flourish that have little impact on gameplay. Medieval 2 introduced them and it helped the battles look a bit more cinematic. Three Kingdoms might actually have some of these animations, it's a bit hard to tell from the footage. Whatever blood DLC comes out will definitely have to add some to make sense so we'll see then.
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Jan 29, 2019 23:19
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Speaking of kill animations, are the gory ones broken in rome 2?
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Jan 30, 2019 00:22
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Mantis42 posted:Oh sure. There was that video "Why Rome 2 Failed" made years and years ago that got everyone to hate sync combat (and I tend to agree with it). However, sync kills are a bit different from sync combat, they only trigger on unit death and are just an animated flourish that have little impact on gameplay. Medieval 2 introduced them and it helped the battles look a bit more cinematic. Should have figured you meant that. I just can't tell, as for some reason the videos don't give a lot of close-ups. That kind of sets off some warning bells, as I remember ThroB videos trying to hide that it still had Attila combat while Warhammer videos are nothing but close-ups. We'll have to see something closer to finished or if it's changed up for Historic mode.
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Jan 30, 2019 01:11
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I've watch some YouTuber play a siege battle and I'm a bit concerned about scale: your generals have a couple of units each, so your main army ends up with 4 generals and 20 units total that represents one stack. So it will either scale down on number of units or I'll have to keep track of 100 generals late game. I don't think many TW fans will find fun in "I need to assault this city, but my main sword guy hates heavy spear strategist dude because they fought 10 years ago on different sides."
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Jan 30, 2019 11:08
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alex314 posted:I've watch some YouTuber play a siege battle and I'm a bit concerned about scale: your generals have a couple of units each, so your main army ends up with 4 generals and 20 units total that represents one stack. So it will either scale down on number of units or I'll have to keep track of 100 generals late game. I don't think many TW fans will find fun in "I need to assault this city, but my main sword guy hates heavy spear strategist dude because they fought 10 years ago on different sides." I don't see any problem with that. In the videogame biz they call it 'emergent gameplay'. Having a few too many generals does seem like it might be an issue but I get the impression from the promotional stuff so far that the general can recruit any number of units up to twenty but having a mixture gives you access to a wider selection of units and a mixture of skills. The game looks promising. I hope it lives up to it.
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Jan 30, 2019 11:57
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it looks good but I hope I won't have to learn too many new mechanics because frankly I'm too old for that
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Jan 30, 2019 12:34
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The problem is almost every time CA tries something new they do it wrong or it ends up having the opposite effect of what they intended I appreciate when they do try but they are extremely bad at gameplay testing, it's basically a characteristic of CA as a dev Even more than throb 3k seems to be a game where theyr trying to make everything new
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Jan 31, 2019 13:47
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Either they fix it in a couple of patches or modders do. I'll probably switch between WH2 and 3K like I did in S2 and R2(DeI). It looks like the games will compliment each other with one being more complex and other streamlined fun.
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Jan 31, 2019 14:19
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Honestly, I really suspect 3k is gonna be like really bad. All the battle videos I watched looked bad, with unsynced animation, slow movement, small units, and just clunky looking combat. The campaign map looks good but I cannot imagine a scenario where CA in their current state manages to implement things like the rebellious army feature or the thing where you send your spy to be adopted by the enemy, it is either going to be vanishingly rare or insanely abused by the AI I dunno, I mean, I'm definitely still angry about Rome II so that might be coloring my perceptions, but their track record suggests it will be lovely until like a year and a half from now when the gold edition with all the faction packs and stuff is half price ed: also can anyone link a good source explaining the differences between the combat in the different Total War games? like why does Rome/Attila feel all lovely and floaty compared to like, Medieval II, Shogun 2, or to a lesser extent, Warhammer? Which ones are "sync" combat and how is that separate from...non synced?
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Feb 1, 2019 15:02
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yeah this youtubers event was disastrous for CA. the game looks extremely not ready for release, the battles look awful and the ai is even more braindead than usual. should have waited a few weeks.
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Feb 1, 2019 15:41
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i think a fair amount of the problems can probably be chalked up to the way overpowered heroes/lords they gave the streamers that said, combat animations don't look great, i dislike the unit cards (even if they're fitting art style wise, they are hard to keep apart and look ugly) and there seems to be no indication there's anything but han chinese playable or on the map, i see no nanman, no vietnam, no korea, no nomadic tribes etc. also all but 1 lord seems to start in the north, making the southern half of the map a void for dlc
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Feb 1, 2019 16:02
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Davincie posted:i think a fair amount of the problems can probably be chalked up to the way overpowered heroes/lords they gave the streamers The reported fact that the AI never turns down duels and will beeline towards your hero (and more specifically, head first into your spear wall) seems like a pretty big problem. The whole duel system, while thematically appropriate and cool, is a horrible idea in practice since it effectively makes general-sniping a mechanic and looks very abusable. Also echoing the sentiment that the battles this time round look small by comparison to other recent games in the franchise. Blooming Brilliant fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 16:45
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alex314 posted:I've watch some YouTuber play a siege battle and I'm a bit concerned about scale: your generals have a couple of units each, so your main army ends up with 4 generals and 20 units total that represents one stack. Good news then: you're limited to 3 generals and 18 units to a stack this time.
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Feb 1, 2019 20:25
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New video on the campaign map, lots of stuff on town building, and the the recruitment system from Thrones made it in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4Y4RvthA_M However they really should stop showing battle gameplay on these potato builds.
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Feb 1, 2019 20:37
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I'd rather they show us the potatoes than another Siege of Carthage vertical slice/bullshot/prerendered false advertising. It's a no win scenario. Either you show rough footage and people get mad, or you show no footage and the rumor mill starts.
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Feb 1, 2019 20:47
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Showing good footage/making a good game seems like the way to win???
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Feb 1, 2019 20:50
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That's an unfair expectation. They've only made 13 of these games over the course of 2 decades, you can't expect them to make the central feature of the series good or have the AI understand how to play!
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Feb 1, 2019 20:55
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CharlestheHammer posted:Showing good footage/making a good game seems like the way to win??? That is the way to do it. CA is doing the right thing by showing off the battle mode right now, because it shows a commitment to transparency that was absent when Rome 2 came out. Even if it does look like potatoes. The people who are going to go on TWC and scream about how CA is the devil for not having ultra widescreen 8K graphics at max supersampling and texture streaming are never going to be satisfied. To them, either CA shows the game and they scream how it looks ugly, or CA doesn't show the game, and they scream that CA is hiding stuff. For myself, it doesn't look that great but at least CA is putting it out there rather than lying to us.
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Feb 1, 2019 21:10
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