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Horatio are the greatest 4x faction in history, and I'll hear no further criticism. 
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Feb 7, 2019 04:06
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Ms Adequate posted:Horatio are the greatest 4x faction in history, and I'll hear no further criticism.
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Feb 7, 2019 04:16
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Horatio are how a 4X player thinks, made into a faction. It'shard to hate Horatio without hating yourself. (Apparently it was a goon who was responsible for getting Horatio's trait of "expensive ships" renamed to the far superior "the Price of Beauty.")mitochondritom posted:Yes it was Perdido st Station and also the Witcher 1 that made me twig that something was awry. I have decided with no evidence at all that early on in development some wires were crossed and it just got stuck that way, either as a joke or by accident. I can't reconcile that its a coincidence at all. I might take this question to the Amplitude forums, the devs seem pretty good at answering this sort of question.
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Feb 7, 2019 04:24
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Tree Bucket posted:(Apparently it was a goon who was responsible for getting Horatio's trait of "expensive ships" renamed to the far superior "the Price of Beauty.") I have left a true mark on the world. 
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Feb 7, 2019 04:50
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Ms Adequate posted:Horatio are the greatest 4x faction in history, and I'll hear no further criticism.
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Feb 7, 2019 04:56
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So I blundered and set the game to 8 player size but for some reason it defaulted to 6 players? I dunno. Anyway the Mushroom folks are pretty fun. Wait for a dust eclipse thing and them whammo mushroom men all up the enemy butts.
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Feb 7, 2019 05:02
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EL question; is there a way to stop the game from auto-generating unit designs after I've deleted them and come up with my own? I don't want my menus cluttered with junk I'll never build and I like having things with their own names and stuff not just "Dekari Range3" or whatever.
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Feb 7, 2019 06:16
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There's a button to stop it IIRC, mine haven't auto generated for a while. It might be on the unit page itself though? I finally finished the Kapaku storyline and it takes quite a dark turn, it's super good. Also Riftborn > Horatio, we just wanna make shapes friend
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Feb 7, 2019 10:41
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Flipswitch posted:Also Riftborn > Horatio, we just wanna make shapes friend Riftborn are inferior as long as there is no way to terraform your planets into featureless cubes.
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Feb 7, 2019 10:44
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That would actually be extremely awesome, bit like their version of Machine Worlds from Stellaris.
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Feb 7, 2019 10:49
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I suggested in on their suggestion thing like a year ago.
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Feb 7, 2019 10:50
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That would be good as hell, get it done Amplitude Okay so, just started a new game as the Mages and I'm curious about where y'all think I ought to settle my first city;  I can see a lot of possibilities and I'm too dumb to know if any of them are clearly way better than others, though I'm currently leaning towards on the cliff directly above that oasis, gets me the approval bonus along with river and forests.
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Feb 7, 2019 22:39
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Ms Adequate posted:That would be good as hell, get it done Amplitude Yes, I agree. That is where I would go, it is 17 F and 10 I, which is OK in my books. It nets you the river and several decent anomalies to expand out towards. I can't see anywhere else on that screen that comes close.
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Feb 7, 2019 22:50
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mitochondritom posted:I can't see anywhere else on that screen that comes close. If it were possible to settle on the first turn, the spot one hex to the east of that would be a good bit stronger. Not only does it have more total FIDS, an excessive bias toward food isn't great in a city that will be pumping out settlers early. Given that it would cost an extra turn to get there, though, I'm agreed with both of you that the hex north-west of the oasis is the best choice.
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Feb 7, 2019 23:21
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I think I value the extra industry over the extra science gained by settling east, though admittedly it's only 1. The Mages can get the science from their Stele things. I would certainly build my first district (Museum of Auriga?!) Out to the east to grab the Science though and possibly work towards the coast. Perhaps I am also overestimating how important it would be to expand West to snag the other anomalies.
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Feb 8, 2019 00:02
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I'd certainly rather have a point of industry than a point of science in that start, but three food and two industry for nine science is a trade that's hard to pass up. On one hand, it's true that the mages can use the science pillars to prop up their tech, but on the other hand, the pillars mean both that they have lots of things they want to research very early because they don't have any other starting technologies and that hitting era II before the first empire plan is a possibility. It's nice to be able to eke out a little more science.
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Feb 8, 2019 00:21
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The thing with lacking science early on, is even if shoving your 1st pop into science isn't enough to keep up with the building/tech balance, you fall into the worse-case scenario of making two extra combat units and having a 4-stack available to go around crushing things. Oh boo-hoo-hooooo. There is no such thing as 'too much industry' in EL.
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Feb 8, 2019 04:40
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The worst-case scenario is hitting era II on turn 21 and having everything but units cost 50% more industry than it would have for the next 20 turns.
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Feb 8, 2019 18:01
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I wasn't entirely convinced that you should stack armor against kinetic and missiles and shields against lasers and beams, so I ran the numbers. Here is the spreadsheet for those who are interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OfVXcE974njOn9eIMOB8pQuwJFlHLDpu2YUq1FkWY5s/edit?usp=sharing tldr: Shield Capacity is low enough that Shield Defense almost never matters. Shields scale horribly with larger ship types but are surprisingly good even against kinetic weapons on smaller ships. I'd argue plasma distortion and hero abilities that give shield penetration are better with kinetic weapons and missiles than lasers and beams. The bonus might let you destroy a ship before its shields are depleted with weapons that are already good against shields, but shield capacity is low enough that it doesn't matter when using lasers or beams.
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Feb 8, 2019 19:16
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edit: Maybe I shouldn't have opined, sorry. Clearly some stuff has changed since I last played. Serephina fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Feb 10, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 07:27
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So just always use kinetic armor?
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Feb 9, 2019 07:36
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Serephina posted:It's been a very long time since I thought about it, and I remember some counterintuitive results for sure, but I'm not sure if you took into account how multiple modules stack? I added a sheet for doubling or tripling the same modules, didn't make it all nice and pretty, to prove stacking armor doesn't have diminishing returns. Health linearly increases the duration you'll survive against incoming damage. Hull defense linearly increases the duration you'll survive against incoming damage, there isn't diminishing returns but it is less effective against laser and beam attacks. Lasers and beams with gravity distortion ignore it entirely. It is multiplicative with Health. Shield defense only matters for T1 shields on explorer and attack class ships. Enemy shield penetration helps keep it relevant longer, but only against kinetic and missile weapons. Shield capacity linearly increases the duration you'll survive against incoming damage. The more armor you stack, the better it gets. Three Basic Inert Plating on a protector class ship makes it take +200% longer to kill, while one only makes it take 58% longer. If it was purely linear you'd expect a 174% increase. This effect is more pronounced with higher tier armor, lower base health ships, and defensive ships. The more shields you stack, the better armor gets, since shields also increase base health. Note that the multiplicative bonus of armor pretty much disappears against beams. appropriatemetaphor posted:So just always use kinetic armor? T1 I'd go with shields for small ships. The cases in which armor is better it is only by 1 or 2% while it is significantly worse against beams and lasers. T2 shields are still superior for explorer class ships. I'd still probably stick with shields for attack ships since armor is only significantly better against missiles but doesn't automatically repair after battles. Protectors could go either way, but I usually give them kinetic weapons so I'm less concerned with missiles so shields end up better. Here is how I'm currently thinking about the two modes of defense:
There are some other nuances to take into account that I've not fully wrapped my head around. As an example: Missiles need to focus fire or they'll be very easily shot down. You want to use them on hunter and attack class ships. This means if you are designing a ship that is a low target priority for hunter and attack class ships you'll only be attacked by 1 or 2 missiles at a time from non-focus fire ships or once your designated protector or coordinator is destroyed. In the former case a single flak cannon should keep you protected, which lowers the value of armor. In the latter case, a single barrage will probably kill you no matter what. Lasers, beams, and kinetic don't need to focus fire, which makes them better than missiles on ships that don't focus fire, making them a bigger threat to low priority targets. How does knowing that your attack class ships don't need to worry about missiles and the poor accuracy of kinetic weapons at range impact your valuation of shields vs armor? Edit: KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 17:47
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In EL, what are people’s preferred world generation options? I usually set it to rare, long dust eclipses, and many continents. I tried new world, but that really felt cramped.
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Feb 9, 2019 20:13
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I've decided to try EL after loving ES2 to bits. Are there any "essential" expansions (particularly for a player who enjoys being canonically The Good Guys, insofar as such a thing is possible in the Endless universe...)KPC_Mammon posted:insert thoroughly excellent post here Thanks for this post, I'll have to give it some serious thought later. What is your reasoning for Carriers always taking armour, by the way?
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Feb 10, 2019 01:09
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Tree Bucket posted:I've decided to try EL after loving ES2 to bits. Are there any "essential" expansions (particularly for a player who enjoys being canonically The Good Guys, insofar as such a thing is possible in the Endless universe...) They're all great and really cheap now, but the consensus seems to be Shifters and Tempest being highly recommended, Inferno and Shadows being pretty good in their own right, Symbiosis too new to judge and Guardians (and the splattering of tiny dlc) being fluff.
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Feb 10, 2019 01:45
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Lucas Archer posted:In EL, what are people’s preferred world generation options? I usually set it to rare, long dust eclipses, and many continents. I tried new world, but that really felt cramped. Bloody Pancreas posted:They're all great and really cheap now, but the consensus seems to be Shifters and Tempest being highly recommended, Inferno and Shadows being pretty good in their own right, Symbiosis too new to judge and Guardians (and the splattering of tiny dlc) being fluff. This is just IMO:
tldr; Get as many as you can in a bundle, EL is a game that strongly benefits from richness of additional content.
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Feb 10, 2019 02:10
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After watching Mandalore Gaming's review of Endless Legend a bunch of times, I've decided to purchase it since buying everything got me the five bucks off on Steam! Looking forward to trying this out, I love Civilization to death and this looks very different but in a good, fun way.
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Feb 10, 2019 02:18
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I also give Tempest a thumbs down. I don't find the oceans at all interesting and the resources on land get screwed up in map generation. The game puts a ton on the water and little on land for most factions to fight over
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Feb 10, 2019 02:21
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Tree Bucket posted:Thanks for this post, I'll have to give it some serious thought later. We'll ignore T1 defensive modules for carriers because unlocking carriers before picking up a single military tech seems unlikely. All carriers (except Horatio) have a minimum of 2 dedicated defense modules, which favors armor because it stacks multiplicatively. Horatio has higher base health though, which also favors armor. A pair of T2 shield modules give carriers 11.6% increased effective health against all weapon types. A pair of T2 armor modules give carriers 25.7/28.5/9.2/6.4% increased effective health against kinetic/missiles/lasers/beams. Considering how bad beams are right now I wouldn't focus defense modules to counter them. The difference in effectiveness against lasers, 2.4%, is pretty insignificant. I think the dust cost of refitting your fleet from armor to shields to counter lasers would be better spent elsewhere. A pair of T3 shield modules on a carrier are actually worse against lasers than a pair of T3 armor modules. A hybrid of 1 shield and 1 armor module would be less EHP than two armor modules but more than a pair of shields. I also always try to give my carriers at least one repair module, which scales with armor but doesn't scale with shields. Riftborn ships have lower base hp, I still need to run numbers for them but armor should be less effective. Edit: I think a lot of this is predicated on my belief that beams are bad. This could be wrong, shields and armor weren't intuitive so it is probably a mistake to assume weapon types are straightforward. Even if beams are good, I really doubt it is due to offensive capability, their primary niche seems to be the ability to counter pick opposing weapon types while still doing full, sub par damage. With proper tactical choices they might end up being great defensively. I'm imagining a situation where you can force your opponent to lose more damage than you did by going beams by manipulating range bands. Your opponent also can't hard counter you by refitting their fleet in the middle of a war. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Feb 10, 2019 |
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Feb 10, 2019 02:27
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Bloody Pancreas posted:They're all great and really cheap now, but the consensus seems to be Shifters and Tempest being highly recommended, Inferno and Shadows being pretty good in their own right, Symbiosis too new to judge and Guardians (and the splattering of tiny dlc) being fluff. None of them are bad, but I would rank them: 1. Guardians / the tiny ones - These are the most generalizable. They add Legendary achievements, Titans, and super-districts that are available to all factions. 2. Tempest - Really just because the Morgawr are one of my favorite factions. It's worth noting that unlike the very optional global mechanics added by the other DLC, if Tempest is activated, the ocean is basically mandatory, because half the world's resources get moved there. 3. Shifters - Like Tempest, this activates a "dead" part of the game by giving everyone things to do during Winter, and more ways to counter its effects. I never got into the Allayi, but they're popular. 4. Inferno - The Kapaku were grossly OP at release. I assume they fixed this but I haven't played it since. They're fun, and the Dust Eclipse event that Inferno adds is pretty cool. 5. Shadows - It's really hard to balance a stealth faction, and the Forgotten always felt underpowered. I also thought the espionage implementation was awkward. I haven't played Symbiosis.
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Feb 10, 2019 04:31
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Haven't played the most recent two EL packs, but I consider Tempest and Shadows to be mostly downgrades and generally disable them unless another player really wants one of the factions. The added mechanics for both feel unfun and draggy, and mostly unravel a lot of EL's focus. Guardians is quite good, since it enhances rather than dilutes most play styles, and Shifters makes winter more interesting.
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Feb 11, 2019 15:25
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Okay, feel like I’m getting the rhythm of EL now, and have a sense for how fast things move. I didn’t realize there even was a turn limit until I delved into the options. I’m a perennial re-starter, so knowing I have a hard stopping point is helpful in combatting that. I’ve played Wild Walkers, Vaulters, and Drakken to mid game. It feels like the WW just own industry, while Vaulters are great at tech. I didn’t feel like the Drakken were that interesting - maybe because I was alone on my continent with them.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:55
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What's the turn limit? I know the winters sorta get long as you go on, guess I usually just win before hitting that point. Only played a couple games on normal difficulty though so pretty easy to dunk on the AI at that level.
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Feb 12, 2019 20:12
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I think 300 turns is the default? 200 for a short game and 400 for a long one. I think there is an endless option as well, but I can’t remember.
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Feb 12, 2019 20:23
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Lucas Archer posted:Okay, feel like I’m getting the rhythm of EL now, and have a sense for how fast things move. I didn’t realize there even was a turn limit until I delved into the options. I’m a perennial re-starter, so knowing I have a hard stopping point is helpful in combatting that. WW are very industrial, Vaulters are very good at science but they've got some other neat attributes (teleportation and extra uses/bonuses with strategics) Drakken are kind of the most generic, but their oddest gimmick is that they can force peaceful diplomacy options on other players. Which actually rules, so being alone as Drakken is pretty boring yeah.
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Feb 12, 2019 21:46
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Local Dragon Beats Man With Rolled Up Peace Treaty.
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Feb 13, 2019 02:20
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Drakken, like Roving Clans and Morgawr, are way more fun in MP than SP, where the targets of your diplomatic shenanigans are not barely-functioning AIs. I haven't played in a while, but they also at least used to have one of the best militaries in the game, maybe second only to Necrophages.
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Feb 13, 2019 03:01
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I turned off Penumbra and don't miss it. Hacking is fiddly and irritating. The game didn't really need a whole new set of mechanics it needed to tune the existing ones.
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Feb 14, 2019 05:00
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Amethyst posted:I turned off Penumbra and don't miss it. Hacking is fiddly and irritating. The game didn't really need a whole new set of mechanics it needed to tune the existing ones.
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Feb 15, 2019 21:43
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I think the hacking is OK, but it takes so long. I really can't be bothered to spend 15 turns to hack my neighbor x5 to install sleepers. Great after 100 turns I now get a small amount of Dust from them (assuming they don't fight the hacks or get rid of the sleepers). I think I would make it so that each hack gives you a sleeper AND one of the other options. If I hack my opponents capital world, why would I ever waste my time installing a sleeper or preventing movement when I can steal technology worth thousands of science?! Another huge bugbear I have with it is that if the AI manages to hack your homeworld and topple your government, it can truly gently caress up your whole game. For me, my entire worlds became mutinous and I just couldn't recover.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:01
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