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John Oliver had a segment on civil forfeiture. Spoilers: It is utter bullshit 90% of the time and is basically legalized theft for cops. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks
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Feb 14, 2019 20:54
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EvilGenius posted:I agree. I think your problem is you're assuming the cops will listen to an immediate, plausible explanation and not respond "that's exactly the kind of excuse a drug dealer would say" and take the money anyway.
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Feb 14, 2019 20:56
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1stGear posted:John Oliver had a segment on civil forfeiture. Spoilers: It is utter bullshit 90% of the time and is basically legalized theft for cops. Maybe my link and the other guy's link needed to explicitly say it was a John Oliver segment on civil forfeiture... https://twitter.com/SirajAHashmi/status/1095742875294461952 If it's not clear, Alex Jones is the idiot here.
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Feb 14, 2019 20:57
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EvilGenius posted:I agree. Here's something that happened to a friend of mine "Oh you got $200 in cash, that's way too much for a black person. Where did you get it?" They do whatever the gently caress they want and it obviously will hit poor people and minorities the hardest. Please shut up
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Feb 14, 2019 20:58
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https://twitter.com/classiclib3ral/status/1096035721654296576?s=19
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Feb 14, 2019 21:00
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EvilGenius posted:I agree. The cops in the original tweet weren't bragging about bringing an rear end in a top hat to justice, they were bragging about getting to keep all this money. Things could work the way you think (assuming the cops aren't just power-tripping assholes which I'm sure many here would disagree with), if it weren't for the fact that they get to keep the money. Once you add that into the equation there's no way to have faith in the cops. They have been given no reason to act fairly or reasonably. They are literally being paid to be assholes at that point.
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Feb 14, 2019 21:01
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EvilGenius posted:I suppose what I'm a disagreeing with is that someone could have that much cash on them with no immediate, plausible explanation, and it not be linked to crime. you're inventing the step of "immediate, plausible explanation" because without extensive paperwork cops will just assume it's for drugs, take you to court, and at that point it's an uphill battle to prove that your property which you have possession of is in fact yours and that the cops can't just take it you're giving the cops the benefit of the doubt here because your perspective on life is limited and your knowledge restricted Eiba posted:Why do you think an immediate plausible explanation would get someone out of a situation like that? the goon making this argument is likely someone who has never been on the wrong side of the law and is shielded by privilege "why can't anyone just ring up their barrister at a moment's notice to explain to the police what is going on?"
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Feb 14, 2019 21:01
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EvilGenius, can you account for your car's whereabouts every hour of the last three months? Was it on camera for that entire time? If not, it can be seized.
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Feb 14, 2019 21:09
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EvilGenius posted:I agree. I have just under a thousand GBP in cash in me right now with no real audit trail because I sold a bunch of music gear through gumtree. It'll go in the bank tomorrow but right now I have no proof of how I got it beyond an absence of guitars in my house.
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Feb 14, 2019 21:15
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sneakyfrog posted:in the US there are now little devices that they will straight up drain your bank and ATM and prepaid cards quote:Although the device does not allow funds from non-prepaid cards to be frozen or seized, it can provide the officer information about those cards such as the card number, the name on the card, expiration date and the card issuer. Oh yes, just what I want, some random cops being able to see all my bank card information whenever they want. I'm also sure closing all those accounts and opening new ones won't get a flag in the system and get you in even more poo poo either.
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Feb 14, 2019 21:16
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EvilGenius posted:I agree. why should that matter to the cops?
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Feb 14, 2019 21:19
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Serf posted:why should that matter to the cops? Because someone somewhere might be both non white and high...on drugs!
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Feb 14, 2019 21:21
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Araenna posted:Oh yes, just what I want, some random cops being able to see all my bank card information whenever they want. I'm also sure closing all those accounts and opening new ones won't get a flag in the system and get you in even more poo poo either. Withdrawing cash? Looks like an attempt to avoid the surveillance state, citizen. You'll have to turn it over until you prove it wasn't about to be used to purchase drugs.
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Feb 14, 2019 21:22
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Cash is legal tender Anyone can have any amount of cash Nobody should have to explain the source or destination of the cash unless caught in the commission of an illegal transaction Accusation from law enforcement creates a standard of guilt the accused must defend against The ability and resources of the accused to defend themselves may be minimal, especially in light of having money taken from their person. The usual standard is innocent unless proven guilty. This is an obvious case of guilt being applied to an act ANYONE is capable of committing (public holding of cash) meaning the assumption of guilt can be used against anyone with cash, providing incentive for law enforcement who want money. What the gently caress evil genius
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Feb 14, 2019 21:22
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Frog Act posted:Because someone somewhere might be both non white and high...on drugs! Stop resisting! Stop resisting! Stop resisting! I need backup!
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Feb 14, 2019 21:24
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Remember kids: if a paedophile starts creeping on you, just talk to them. You'll probably be able to debate them out of their lust for child flesh, especially if you arrange to meet them in private somewhere without telling anyone else where you're going.
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Feb 14, 2019 21:31
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Frog Act posted:Because someone somewhere might be both non white and high...on drugs! I’m starting to think EvilGenius might be John McAfee’s account! Also holy tits that wired article was a wild ride.
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Feb 14, 2019 21:32
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Sunswipe posted:Remember kids: if a paedophile starts creeping on you, just talk to them. You'll probably be able to debate them out of their lust for child flesh, especially if you arrange to meet them in private somewhere without telling anyone else where you're going. https://twitter.com/classiclib3ral/status/1096039355850915840
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Feb 14, 2019 21:42
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Brawnfire posted:What the gently caress evil genius Only the first half is true here.
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Feb 14, 2019 21:55
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EvilGenius posted:Yes I get that the law is massively prone to corruption, and opposition to it seems to be proportional to how corrupt you believe the police are. I believe in the majority of cases where thousands of cash is discovered, in the UK, the police honestly and correctly believe it's linked to crime, based on the circumstances of the discovery of the money. Call me naive if you like. reminder that this guy is so gobsmackingly loving stupid that he started this whole conversation claiming that "they wouldn't just take the money" in a comment responding to police bragging about doing literally exactly that god drat dude you suck incredibly badly
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Feb 14, 2019 21:55
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EvilGenius posted:I agree. Please, reveal to me the portal to this magical parallel realm of yours where cops listen to an immediate, plausible explanation. I would like to leave this hellverse where they loving disregard anything you say unless they can use it to throw you into the prison industrial complex.
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Feb 14, 2019 22:03
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darkwasthenight posted:I have just under a thousand GBP in cash in me right now with no real audit trail because I sold a bunch of music gear through gumtree. It'll go in the bank tomorrow but right now I have no proof of how I got it beyond an absence of guitars in my house. in you huh 
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Feb 14, 2019 22:06
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I assume that a lot of criminals have had their assets seized that were the product of crime. That doesn’t matter. Police officers should not be able to seize your property based on a hunch. Penalties are supposed to come at the end of a legal procedure, not the beginning. If even one person is being abused, that’s a problem, and while you can’t eliminate abuse you can change the law to reduce incentives. The police department being able to keep the money themselves is begging for abuse. Even if they think they wouldn’t take from an innocent person, people are really good at rationalizing self-serving actions. A cop can tell himself the guy was certainly guilty of something, even without any evidence, and if there’s no one who’s able to push back, they will.
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Feb 14, 2019 22:16
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The ACLU ended up pretty much banning civil asset forfeiture in New Mexico after a man and his son got pulled over on the way to a casino and had all the gambling money they had withdrawn stolen, along with their car. EvilGenius is a loving dumbass.
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Feb 14, 2019 22:25
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food court bailiff posted:reminder that this guy is so gobsmackingly loving stupid that he started this whole conversation claiming that "they wouldn't just take the money" in a comment responding to police bragging about doing literally exactly that Just to remind everyone that this is UK police not US police. They are not the same legal system. The police are not organised into police departments the same way they are in the US. I know in the US it is ridiculous how this is done. You can not just assume that it is the same in every other country of the world. You are reading a hell of a lot into that one tweet. I am not trying to make some bold claim about police corruption or anything here. It is literally not the same system or legal frame work at all. Every country has to have a way to deal with the problem of finding a guy with a pallet loaded with cash in the back of his truck who won't say where it came from. I am not saying that to defend the UK one, but it is in no way related to how the US deals with it so going crazy at someone who does not know how bad it is in the US on the assumption that it is like that everywhere is stupid. As someone who lives in the UK I would be shocked to hear of any of the stories about asset forfeiture that come from the US happening here. I have not heard of anything like that going on. To seize that money they have to take the guy to court and if he has any explanation at all he will keep it. The money will go to the state but not to that local police department. The police are not organised like that here.
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Feb 14, 2019 22:29
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:The ACLU ended up pretty much banning civil asset forfeiture in New Mexico after a man and his son got pulled over on the way to a casino and had all the gambling money they had withdrawn stolen, along with their car. Sounds like they were just going to lose it all (and probably the car) anyway. Think of the time they saved!
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Feb 14, 2019 22:30
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So your point is that the UK and the US aren’t the same except the way in which it’s hosed up where they are the same?
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Feb 14, 2019 22:32
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Cops are power hungry assholes who get paid to bully the working class and defend the interests of the upper class. My former boss would drop me off from work at night, I live in a poorer neighbourhood, she was a tiny Italian woman dressed to the nines in Chanel and Louis Vuitton 24/7 and drove a huge black SUV with tinted windows and came from a richer area. We got pulled over by the cops all the time because they assumed that someone in my area with that vehicle must have been a drug dealer. Why should we have to prove we aren't? What did we do wrong? Please explain why that was justified. Pulling someone over for the type of car they drive. My husband and I would get pulled over at least once a month or followed home when we drove a red Fiero too, because they assume "young man in red sporty car must be up to no good somehow, let's see what we can ding him for". We had cops tail us for 3 blocks right to our front door and they sat there watching us until we pulled out our groceries and went inside. We're both white as hell. Imagine if we weren't. They could have spent that time doing literally anything more productive than profiling two white dorks who like 80s cars. Being profiled by cops sucks and should not be allowed. Period. But it's encouraged and justified and I hate it. gently caress off.
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Feb 14, 2019 22:33
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JigglyPuff posted:To seize that money they have to take the guy to court and if he has any explanation at all he will keep it. The money will go to the state but not to that local police department. The police are not organised like that here. this is literally exactly what has been being discussed this entire time you tea drinking ninny
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Feb 14, 2019 22:33
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JigglyPuff posted:I have not heard of anything like that going on. To seize that money they have to take the guy to court and if he has any explanation at all he will keep it. The money will go to the state but not to that local police department. The police are not organised like that here. How sure are you? Because the words of the cops themselves seem to contact everything you said. Also you have heard of something like that going on, in this very tweet in fact
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Feb 14, 2019 22:34
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Stoatbringer posted:Sounds like they were just going to lose it all (and probably the car) anyway. Think of the time they saved! Well yeah, which is why they saved that cash up and withdrew it specifically to gamble with on their vacation, rather than bankrupting themselves.
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Feb 14, 2019 22:35
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How big of a bootlicker do you have to be to argue with the cops about what they are doing.
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Feb 14, 2019 22:35
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one of my consultants retired from a UK police department one of the primary reasons is because of the way they started recently emulating american policing styles.
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Feb 14, 2019 22:38
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Lemniscate Blue posted:It is a truth universally acknowledged, that an incel man in possession of a anime avatar, must be in want of a swirlie. this is awesome hope you know that I'm gonna steal it 'cause it owns 
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Feb 14, 2019 22:39
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My great-aunt was a hoarder, and didn't trust banks. When she died my Dad found several thousand pounds in pre-decimal money in shoeboxes and, i believe, stuffed into tights. He was stopped by police on the way to the bank, and had a very amusing conversation with them young bobby before going on his merry way. I wonder what the difference is between my Dad and the people in the tweet....
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Feb 14, 2019 22:42
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Strom Cuzewon posted:My great-aunt was a hoarder, and didn't trust banks. When she died my Dad found several thousand pounds in pre-decimal money in shoeboxes and, i believe, stuffed into tights. He was stopped by police on the way to the bank, and had a very amusing conversation with them young bobby before going on his merry way. Obviously your dad wasn't a criminal and clearly explained why he had the money and FARTTTTTTT
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Feb 14, 2019 22:45
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Lived in the UK for more than 30 years. To the shock of nobody here bar one, the cops there are bastards too. Thank god only a handful have guns and most of the rest don’t have the creativity to murder people without them.
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Feb 14, 2019 22:49
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:How sure are you? Because the words of the cops themselves seem to contact everything you said. Also you have heard of something like that going on, in this very tweet in fact No, it isn't what is happening in that tweet. That has not even gone to court. They can not just keep it in the UK. I can find a hundred stories of people unfairly having their assets seized in the US but not a single one in the UK. Find a case in the UK where some poor innocent has had their assets taken that way. Stop thinking that everywhere in the world is like the US. Police corruption is a problem everywhere, but not like it is in the US. Find a case in the UK where someone was going to the casino and had their cash taken and never given back. We have different problems to you. Our police have different problems to you. You may have a hate boner going right now but that doesn't mean that some boastful police tweet means that we have suddenly adopted an insane american law. It just doesn't work like that anywhere but where you live. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 14, 2019 22:56
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That is literally how it works, you don’t need to adopt the American law by your own admission that is how it already works. Are you insane
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Feb 14, 2019 22:59
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JigglyPuff posted:No, it isn't what is happening in that tweet. That has not even gone to court. They can not just keep it in the UK. I can find a hundred stories of people unfairly having their assets seized in the US but not a single one in the UK. Find a case in the UK where some poor innocent has had their assets taken that way. Stop thinking that everywhere in the world is like the US. Police corruption is a problem everywhere, but not like it is in the US. Find a case in the UK where someone was going to the casino and had their cash taken and never given back. We have different problems to you. Our police have different problems to you. You may have a hate boner going right now but that doesn't mean that some boastful police tweet means that we have suddenly adopted an insane american law. It just doesn't work like that anywhere but where you live. ... so the tweet has been taken down and the person responsible for it has been reprimanded and demoted and guy got his money back then?
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Feb 14, 2019 23:00
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