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Feisty-Cadaver posted:I hope you got paid $400k/year my employment history was best described as "it's complicated" until quite recently, so let's say I got paid with not being fired. one of several points when I should have just quit that awful job Feisty-Cadaver posted:in a sense that was successful cuz I never fell into the trap of trying to use it (I have fixed minor bugs in existing grails poo poo) no such luck. I had the honor of rewriting a php application in grails. at the time, I had about three weeks of experience with php, combined, and a couple days in grails, both in long outdated versions. it turned out fine and, as far as I know, it's still in production like a decade later. all that effort and I still feel I know poo poo all about grails, because it was that shaky and unpredictable
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Feb 24, 2019 03:01
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gonadic io posted:plus just in terms of laziness of programming, gc has very little advantage over rc. sure rc might leak memory if you have cycles, and has a possible bigger runtime cost (although it's more predictable). trufax when rust did have a runtime and a built in Gc (nee @) ptr, it was implemented internally as just a Rc - the runtime handled reference loops for you but that was the only difference between them
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Feb 24, 2019 03:29
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with this and the windows internals bits i nominate hackbunny for "shittiest time had touchin computers for a livin" award if you're ever in the bay area peninsula i'll buy you a beer
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Feb 24, 2019 03:33
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DONT THREAD ON ME posted:good point. honestly i think what you're really asking for is a language that has the fundamental safety guarantees of rust together with rust's potential to drop down to very precise ownership rules when it matters but which doesn't loving rub ownership in your face for literally everything all the time oh my god i don't really care right now if i'm introducing extra value copies i just want my loving code to compile that's the general direction we'd like to take swift, but i have to add three caveats: first, we're not there and maybe won't be for years (w.r.t allowing really straightforward and precise ownership control); second, i think we'll be aiming to guarantee thread-safety if you stay within the idioms but i don't know if we'll be able to lock it down as hard as rust does; and third, i don't know that we'll ever call out unsafe code as hard as rust does
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Feb 24, 2019 04:43
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bob dobbs is dead posted:with this and the windows internals bits i nominate hackbunny for "shittiest time had touchin computers for a livin" award well, grails was a respite from writing C++ for symbian os (s60 3e) [I'll have to post about it some time] which was a marked improvement over writing thunderbird extensions in javascript and xul no regrets though, I loved everything I worked with (even grails, sometimes, at least for the challenge of getting something done in it) and I loved working in so many different environments - which later included asterisk pbx, ios, a little linux, android, wpf (ironically I never wrote any native windows code) except I realize few developers can be so flexible (my coworkers definitely weren't), and I was seriously underpaid. the depressed are so easy to exploit bob dobbs is dead posted:if you're ever in the bay area peninsula i'll buy you a beer new job has an office in california so it's not impossible 
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Feb 24, 2019 13:57
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bob dobbs is dead posted:if you're ever in the bay area peninsula i'll buy you a beer  but Prague.
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Feb 24, 2019 15:02
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Xarn posted:
or NYC beers for you all over the world
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Feb 24, 2019 16:09
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bob dobbs is dead posted:with this and the windows internals bits i nominate hackbunny for "shittiest time had touchin computers for a livin" award
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Feb 24, 2019 19:07
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i started messing with prolog for the first time because i've been considering trying to contribute to chalk (https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/chalk) and wow. i understand at a high level what logic programming is but actually doing it is another matter. very mind expanding meme
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Feb 24, 2019 19:58
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Prolog is the reason why I can do C++ TMP. Now if C++'s type packs didn't have lovely syntax...
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Feb 24, 2019 20:07
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DONT THREAD ON ME posted:i started messing with prolog for the first time because i've been considering trying to contribute to chalk (https://github.com/rust-lang-nursery/chalk) and wow. i had to learn some baby amount of prolog for a class in school, and even that tiny stuff made several galaxy brain explosions go off between my ears
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Feb 24, 2019 21:54
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you guys are idiots. hack bunny is in Italy and we should be organizing gooncon Roma asap
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Feb 24, 2019 22:36
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jit bull transpile posted:you guys are idiots. hack bunny is in Italy and we should be organizing gooncon Roma asap sadly i am no longer in a company that includes 3x paid trips to italy a year. although i didn't really like cagliari, and the trip was to the office to work so it wasn't that great
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Feb 24, 2019 22:38
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Lutha Mahtin posted:i had to learn some baby amount of prolog for a class in school, and even that tiny stuff made several galaxy brain explosions go off between my ears prolog is the one where u don’t code the solution but instead the problem and it works it out for you? surely computers aren’t that brainy
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Feb 24, 2019 23:10
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echinopsis posted:prolog is the one where u don’t code the solution but instead the problem and it works it out for you? surely computers aren’t that brainy in practice I feel like you have to be very aware of HOW prolog will search for the answer. if not, even if you express the problem "correctly" it's possible prolog will search through a superdumb way and never return any answers in a realistic amount of time. so much like SQL it's not really as declarative as expected
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Feb 24, 2019 23:17
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echinopsis posted:prolog is the one where u don’t code the solution but instead the problem and it works it out for you? surely computers arent that brainy the building blocks of prolog is first-order logic statements and queries. you have to supply all of the definitions and logic for a particular "problem" before the parser will even try to start working on it. if you fire up a parser and ask ?- good_poster(echinopsis) (i.e. is echinopsis a good_poster) it will just yell at you and say "you haven't defined good_poster, and who hte heck is this echinopsis?"
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Feb 25, 2019 00:36
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computers amiright?
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Feb 25, 2019 00:51
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the only time I ever used prolog after learning it in school was when I prototyped an algorithm in it before doing a real implementation and it was so loving useful in figuring out stuff id forgotten to address
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Feb 25, 2019 00:53
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I'm still not clear on what prolog claims as it's benefit. it seems like you have to specify so much that by the time you've defined all your facts you could answer whatever query you were gonna do yourself with your meatbrain
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Feb 25, 2019 01:09
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it’s good for defining some goals and constraints and then having computer buddy figure out the solutions. I mean sure for any given constraint you could just write your own exhaustive search thing but then you’d want to generalize it and
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Feb 25, 2019 01:15
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jit bull transpile posted:I'm still not clear on what prolog claims as it's benefit. it seems like you have to specify so much that by the time you've defined all your facts you could answer whatever query you were gonna do yourself with your meatbrain
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Feb 25, 2019 01:32
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and now every goon in yospos will rush in to insist they too know prolog because in nerd land the worst thing in the world is to admit you lack some piece of knowledge that others posess
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Feb 25, 2019 02:44
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jit bull transpile posted:I'm still not clear on what prolog claims as it's benefit. it seems like you have to specify so much that by the time you've defined all your facts you could answer whatever query you were gonna do yourself with your meatbrain it blurs the lines between a database, a constraint solver, and a programming language, while presenting an interactive query interface it's not magic or anything but there are problems where it's really handy to muck around with this poo poo all in one toolbox
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Feb 25, 2019 02:44
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echinopsis posted:computers amiright? yeah, you're right
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Feb 25, 2019 02:44
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carry on then posted:and now every goon in yospos will rush in to insist they too know prolog because in nerd land the worst thing in the world is to admit you lack some piece of knowledge that others posess all i know about prolog came from that old timey textbook about implementing prolog in common lisp, which was fantastically cool and also really loving hard given my limited c.s. knowledge (then and now)
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Feb 25, 2019 02:45
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i know nothing about prolog and don't have a desire to based on your posts
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Feb 25, 2019 02:48
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:it blurs the lines between a database, a constraint solver, and a programming language, while presenting an interactive query interface yeah, it's just every demonstration I've seen of it could be done just as easily by writing all your facts and constraints in a notebook and then staring at them for 5 minutes. I guess it's just one of those really narrowly applicable tools.
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Feb 25, 2019 02:49
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carry on then posted:and now every goon in yospos will rush in to insist they too know prolog because in nerd land the worst thing in the world is to admit you lack some piece of knowledge that others posess this, but also, not, in order to prove you wrong
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Feb 25, 2019 02:50
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jit bull transpile posted:yeah, it's just every demonstration I've seen of it could be done just as easily by writing all your facts and constraints in a notebook and then staring at them for 5 minutes. This is true of most algorithms though. Prolog is just the embodiment of a search/constraint/pattern algorithm turned into a language, so for any of these it can be pretty drat good at it. It also came by in the context of 80s AI. Mercury is a newer attempt that also incorporates full static analysis and purity analysis on top of old style prolog rule engines, though the only maintainer I personally knew is now fiddling with GC in javascript for Mozilla.
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Feb 25, 2019 03:03
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jit bull transpile posted:yeah, it's just every demonstration I've seen of it could be done just as easily by writing all your facts and constraints in a notebook and then staring at them for 5 minutes. you can write a web server with it it might not be very good at it, but still Private Speech fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Feb 25, 2019 |
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Feb 25, 2019 03:06
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carry on then posted:and now every goon in yospos will rush in to insist they too know prolog because in nerd land the worst thing in the world is to admit you lack some piece of knowledge that others posess every nerd is just waiting for a chance to explain something to a woman that didn't need to be explained
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Feb 25, 2019 03:12
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I feel like the SQL comparisons are a bit misleading, I'd say it's closer to something like Verilog or VHDL, but instead of hardware nets you're building logic-based ones
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Feb 25, 2019 03:18
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jit bull transpile posted:yeah, it's just every demonstration I've seen of it could be done just as easily by writing all your facts and constraints in a notebook and then staring at them for 5 minutes. well the demos are demos. they have to be simple enough to fit in the demo
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Feb 25, 2019 03:26
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Private Speech posted:you can write a web server with it Well it's interesting if you consider things like routing paths to handlers. Whereas in most servers/frameworks you'd need to figure out a data structure and then a way to search through them efficiently by mapping URL path fragments in the right order, in Prolog you just declare them and the language runtime figures out the rest for you. In practice you may have to be careful with cuts to make sure only one handler is returned when multiple could match but welp.
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Feb 25, 2019 03:29
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:all i know about prolog came from that old timey textbook about implementing prolog in common lisp, which was fantastically cool and also really loving hard given my limited c.s. knowledge (then and now) SICP?
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Feb 25, 2019 04:56
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hackbunny posted:new job has an office in california so it's not impossible  SF Bay Goon Meet
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Feb 25, 2019 05:27
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aardvaard posted:every nerd is just waiting for a chance to explain something to a woman that didn't need to be explained actually,
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Feb 25, 2019 05:31
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Symbolic Butt posted:SICP? https://www.amazon.com/Paradigms-Artificial-Intelligence-Programming-Studies/dp/1558601910 surprisingly it is still in print. i guess some things never go out of style this is an insane amount of fun but also an insane, straight-up vertical difficulty curve. i have never fought a book so hard before or since
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Feb 25, 2019 05:32
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eschaton posted:
sf bay goon meet sgtm you get to see my distressingly young-lookin fat face
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Feb 25, 2019 05:33
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:https://www.amazon.com/Paradigms-Artificial-Intelligence-Programming-Studies/dp/1558601910 oh man I never really checked this book specifically but I know Norvig is awesome
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Feb 25, 2019 05:36
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