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Or to put it in a less blue way: not actually Harold Bloom posted:I'll worship sweet Mr Shakespeare and to honour him will lay his Venus and Adonis under my pillow, as we read of one – I do not well remember his name, but I'm sure he was a king – slept with Homer under his bed's head.
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Feb 26, 2019 23:00
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Hieronymus Alloy posted:[wet sputtering] the Finns, the damned Finns! are the school of resentment and BOTL is the worst of them! I would grind Sanderson's bones to bake my bread, euhhhm, the ephebe experiences agon in contemplation of the illustrious dead, euhhmm, oh, to be an ephebe to Tolkien, to have the professor's lovely cock in my pert little rear end, there would be no misreading my love for him; but this is precisely why i am not a linguist, for I dare not correct the master, euhhm! drat the Finns!!!!!
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Feb 26, 2019 23:50
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Joke: Death of the author Toke: Death of the """""""""theme"""""""""""
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Feb 27, 2019 04:24
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It feels wrong that BotL isn’t in cat jail. Can’t you post a few trenchant insights and then go antagonize some more mods? What is this thread even about anymore? Anyway Deathh if the Author is like all lit crit or philosophy: a mind blowing thought experiment when you first encounter it, that you then can move on with your life and never apply because it literally doesn’t apply to the real world ever. It is not the Rosetta Stone for unlocking how literature works; at best it’s one more tool in the toolbox for thinking about how effective a work is. Anyway I’m reading Dting Earth and it’s pretty funny
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Feb 27, 2019 04:35
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poisonpill posted:It feels wrong that BotL isn’t in cat jail. Can’t you post a few trenchant insights and then go antagonize some more mods? What is this thread even about anymore? someone else can take this one
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Feb 27, 2019 05:31
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chernobyl kinsman posted:im gonna link you to it because im a kinder, better person than mel Probably a bit deep down the rabbit hole to look for casual curiosity but E D Hirsch Jr's book Validity in Interpretation argues the opposing case
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Feb 27, 2019 07:08
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Has this thread poo poo on David Weber's books any? I feel like there's some fertile ground for it, I dunno. Just a feeling when when people in the Scifi thread haven't been allowed to recommend him for like a decade.
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Feb 27, 2019 08:07
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if it wont make the scifi thread mad then whats the point
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Feb 27, 2019 08:12
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chernobyl kinsman posted:if it wont make the scifi thread mad then whats the point Well, it'd make someone mad, since someone had to keep recommending it and throwing the thread into a fight.
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Feb 27, 2019 08:18
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i like the expanse books and all but i feel like they'd be more interesting sci-fi current series to talk about than weber edit: he said as he walked across the room and put his half-eaten noodles into the recycler Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Feb 27, 2019 |
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Feb 27, 2019 08:31
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poisonpill posted:Anyway Deathh if the Author is like all lit crit or philosophy: a mind blowing thought experiment when you first encounter it, that you then can move on with your life and never apply because it literally doesn’t apply to the real world ever. It is not the Rosetta Stone for unlocking how literature works; at best it’s one more tool in the toolbox for thinking about how effective a work is.
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Feb 27, 2019 12:28
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TheGreatEvilKing already made a Weber post.
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Feb 27, 2019 12:32
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the Expanse books having everyone carry around their "hand terminal" is the funniest stupid sci fi thing, im pretty sure if we're still around in 23whatever we'll still call them "phones"
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Feb 27, 2019 16:02
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Death of the Author is a messed up essay. It is an assault on the concept of free will, and it substitutes how the ancient world thought of inspiration (as coming from daimons) with a materialist source (culture of the time). It's this incoherent mess which straddles this weird line between trying to be ultra-materialist while bordering on the mystical.
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Feb 27, 2019 16:02
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CountFosco posted:It is an assault on the concept of free will lol ok CountFosco posted:It's this incoherent mess which straddles this weird line between trying to be ultra-materialist while bordering on the mystical. I think you read the wrong essay
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Feb 27, 2019 16:05
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also, separately, lol of course free will doesn't exist come on now
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Feb 27, 2019 16:11
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CountFosco posted:Death of the Author is a messed up essay. It is an assault on the concept of free will, and it substitutes how the ancient world thought of inspiration (as coming from daimons) with a materialist source (culture of the time). It's this incoherent mess which straddles this weird line between trying to be ultra-materialist while bordering on the mystical. source your quotes
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Feb 27, 2019 16:13
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another stupid sci fi thing is using the United Nations as the future one world government. The Forever War, The Expanse, many others do this. Even Starcraft had the sense to have a fascist Earth future unistate.
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Feb 27, 2019 16:21
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CountFosco posted:Death of the Author is a messed up essay. It is an assault on the concept of free will, and it substitutes how the ancient world thought of inspiration (as coming from daimons) with a materialist source (culture of the time). It's this incoherent mess which straddles this weird line between trying to be ultra-materialist while bordering on the mystical. this is correct and attempts to de-radicalize Barthes always read as apologetics
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Feb 27, 2019 16:32
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Hmm no, no offense but it's wild nonsense. There are radical positions in Barthes but Death of the Author contains or suggests none of that second-hand pop philosophy stuff
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Feb 27, 2019 17:22
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if continental philosophers would rein in their tendency toward obscurantism, everyone could agree what their essays even say in the first place and these exchanges would be more pleasant and productive
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Feb 27, 2019 17:27
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if continental philosophers were to reign in their tendency towards obscurantism the sun would fall from the heavens and the seas would turn red as blood
chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Feb 27, 2019 |
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Feb 27, 2019 17:30
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i knew a prof who was for a long time actively campaigning for greater simplicity in academic writing in all fields, not just philosophy (but particularly the humanities). he said the french just told him to gently caress off, like, all the time
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Feb 27, 2019 17:31
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the idea that a text can discuss the obscurity of literature without itself being obscure is absurd those who find critical theory to be obscure are missing the point
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Feb 27, 2019 17:36
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Death of the Author (and Camera Lucida, the other Barthes I've read) is like reading through the funny pages when it comes how light and easy it is. Edit: And to be clear, the funny pages to which I refer are The Funday Times from when I was seven, something Murdoch has ripped from the weekend newspaper, leaving only The Telly Guide (The Culture supplement) as a reason to buy it.
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Feb 27, 2019 17:39
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Mrenda posted:Death of the Author (and Camera Lucida, the other Barthes I've read) is like reading through the funny pages when it comes how light and easy it is. Yeah, Barthes is my go-to for introducing people to literary theory because he is pretty clear, all things considered Like take a Judith Butler and now we're talking some impenetrable poo poo
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Feb 27, 2019 17:40
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Barthes's argument is that "the Author" is just a fiction, a rhetorical device. Obviously there's a person who wrote the book, but writing is an act of copying, synthesizing, and distilling other texts. There is no secret Authorial essence that makes a text unique, but a sum of influences united in the experience of the Reader.
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Feb 27, 2019 17:41
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Bonaventure posted:if continental philosophers would rein in their tendency toward obscurantism, everyone could agree what their essays even say in the first place and these exchanges would be more pleasant and productive There are a lot of texts from that era that are genuinely quite abstruse but Death of the Author really isn't very obscure at all on top of being exceedingly short. There isn't much of an excuse to straight up invent things you think it might say like that
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Feb 27, 2019 17:42
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Yeah, Barthes is my go-to for introducing people to literary theory because he is pretty clear, all things considered Not only is he clear, but as with my reference to The Funday Times, he's an entertaining, funny writer. There's a lot of levity in how he writes.
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Feb 27, 2019 17:44
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Mel Mudkiper posted:the idea that a text can discuss the obscurity of literature without itself being obscure is absurd *clears throat uncomfortably* Mel Mudkiper posted:bad writing done with intent is still bad
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Feb 27, 2019 17:48
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Mrenda posted:Not only is he clear, but as with my reference to The Funday Times, he's an entertaining, funny writer. There's a lot of levity in how he writes. A lot of continental literary critics write in that sort of playful style I remember when I went to grad school for linguistics I got an F on my first few papers because I was a lit undergrad and kept writing scientific reports in the style of a critical theorist. Like, turning in ironic research reports with metacommentary and poo poo
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Feb 27, 2019 17:48
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chernobyl kinsman posted:*clears throat uncomfortably* Well then one would have to argue why obscurity makes for bad writing
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Feb 27, 2019 17:49
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lost in postation posted:There are a lot of texts from that era that are genuinely quite abstruse but Death of the Author really isn't very obscure at all on top of being exceedingly short. There isn't much of an excuse to straight up invent things you think it might say like that i do actually disagree with the free will bit but otherwise i'm inventing nothing nor do i expect CountFosco was inventing anything: these are ideas i took as implicit within the text. i.e., from the way that Barthes describes "the reader" without history or psychology etc. in precisely the function of the shamanistic mediator he speaks of earlier. This is the kind of 'mystical' advocacy that CountFosco refers to. Bonaventure fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Feb 27, 2019 |
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Feb 27, 2019 17:49
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Well then one would have to argue why obscurity makes for bad writing Judith Butler posted:The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power. and she's not even french
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Feb 27, 2019 17:55
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yeah sorry that owns op
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Feb 27, 2019 18:02
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Feb 27, 2019 18:10
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Bilirubin posted:What is this "death of the author" thing anyway? I've seen it referenced several times here and just came across it on a book I'm reading on French Theory and it seems important he was run over by a laundry van
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Feb 27, 2019 18:21
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chernobyl kinsman posted:if continental philosophers were to reign in their tendency towards obscurantism the sun would fall from the heavens and the seas would turn red as blood 
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Feb 27, 2019 18:30
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chernobyl kinsman posted:and she's not even french
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Feb 27, 2019 18:31
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People talk poo poo about Judith Butler for using big words, but she is never anything but straightforward in her use of them.
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Feb 27, 2019 18:33
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