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"Oh, and this other time I ate a strawberry with ketchup on it..." Did not remember that line but got me on NG+, as much as the localization takes poo poo that's a pretty good one.
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Feb 4, 2019 06:35
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I messed around too much on my first play through, just loaded up after months of not playing. Currently September. Was wandering Mementos, and a grim reaper wiped my party. What the heck?
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Feb 4, 2019 10:45
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If you spend 5 minutes on a floor in Mementos, the Repear appears.
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Feb 4, 2019 11:25
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Digirat posted:FWIW I don’t think morgana needs a good reason not to like ryuji, sometimes conflict between people is as simple as abrasion between different personalities, but it comes up so randomly between them that it feels really weird and forced; unlike yusuke and futaba’s dislike for each other which feels a bit less forced and is actually a nice little angle to their characters Also something as small as a character bring up to Morgana that he rags on Ryuji for being a dumbass while constantly doing dumber poo poo would have made it way less frustrating. As it is it feels like the game just expects you to agree with Morgana for like no reason.
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Feb 4, 2019 11:38
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ApplesandOranges posted:It is a little baffling that as much as they improved in a lot of other aspects (social links, dungeons, battle system), they seem to have practically backslid in terms of making characters relevant. I don't think it's baffling at all: it's because they made party members into social links, thereby eliminating all of their character development forever. They can't develop in the main plot because the writers don't know how far you are into their link, and they can't develop in their link in any way that might affect what they do in the main plot. It forces all your characters to stay in stasis. The same problem also showed up in a weird way in P3P, incidentally. Instead of keeping the characters in stasis, the social links with your party just assumed they were near the end of their development in the main plot, potentially leading to Junpei being the most awesome guy ever in his link while at the same time being bitterly jealous of you in the main plot. It's pretty jarring and nonsensical, really. Although maybe the fact that we don't complain about this as often means that putting important character development into some alternate dimension nega-zone is actually the better solution than trying to keep things consistent?
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Feb 4, 2019 12:00
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i have no idea if it was intended and i'm leaning to no, but the most actual woke part of persona 5 was the implication Okamura wasn't really doing anything any other CEO wasn't doing Misleading the Phantom Thieves to go after him instead of Sugimura is pretty damning even though Sugimura deserves confessing about how wanted more power by marrying into Okumura Foods. I kind of wish the game had optional bosses for the palaces representing the Palace Owner's retinue of alibis and bootlickers who look up to them for power. Utterly powerless without the Palace Owner but a threat when they had power. A political aide who is a shitheel supporter of Shido. Taking Scandals on his behalf but getting away with it. An art collector who bough Madarame's works knowing it belongs to his students and believes Yusuke's mother died for a worthy artist even though Madarame cared for Yusuke to an extent A corrupt cop with a steady job, loving family and takes bribes from Kaneshiro not because he is hard up for cash but because he could I already said who would Okumura's bootlicker be A former criminal turned criminal contact for Sae because he wants a pretense of a legitimate life who validates Sae's cyncism as she has to fulfil favors for him for information A student duo of Kamoshida who is well aware of his actions but choosing to do nothing about it as they believe a bit of indignity is worth it for having power and helps Kamoshida obtain blackmail An ITG who worked for Alibaba who uses cyberbullying to augment his real life bullying where he would stalk his victims to extort them in real life And finally, the true Goddess reborn, the being that birthed the grail all because she decided to let humanity become complacent gyrobot fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Feb 4, 2019 |
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Feb 4, 2019 15:37
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I'm almost through September in my NG+. The Palaces so far have been nice to go through again, I thought Okumura's felt shorter than I remembered. I think generally during my first run through, without SP Adhesives, it was a lot tougher, and towards the end I was dreading every fight. It may have been easier since I had Makoto and Haru in my party the whole time, and I was using Baton Pass as much as possible (can't Baton Pass to Haru at this point, though). A lot of the shadows are weak to Psy and Nuke. The other thing is the airlock "maze" puzzle. I probably found it a lot easier 2nd time through, even though I didn't exactly know the solution, I remembered that the main one was pretty linear. Confidants-wise, I have a lot Maxed now, and a few more aren't far off. I've been using a guide for responses for this playthrough. For party members, I've maxed Ryuji, Ann and Yusuke, while Makoto is around Rank 8 and Futaba Rank 4 I think. Sojiro is done, as are Mishima and Takemi. So I think I'm in a pretty good place to get everyone Maxed, a lot should be done by the time I start Haru's. Once I have them done, I'll focus on things like books/video games/fishing etc to get the trophies for those. I'm still missing a few others, like the Reaper one, the Twins one and rescuing a hostage (not too sure the best way of getting that at this point). I'm still not looking forward to that bloody Ship. irlZaphod fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Feb 11, 2019 |
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Feb 11, 2019 16:23
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NikkolasKing posted:I liked Shido's voice and dungeon music. That's my opinion on the character. The problem I had with the voice was that I kept expecting Shido to turn around and go, "Do you get to the Cloud District very often? Hah, what am I saying? Of course you don't."
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Feb 11, 2019 18:48
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Max Wilco posted:The problem I had with the voice was that I kept expecting Shido to turn around and go, "Do you get to the Cloud District very often? Hah, what am I saying? Of course you don't." Oh, you bastard. Anyway, "Ark" is the best song on the soundtrack. I'll fight you! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTYkUvaEsio
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Feb 13, 2019 03:18
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Just came back in NG+ to the Futaba confidant scene where she meets Mishima and he hits on her and says "kek". Mishima :clap emoji: is :clap emoji: canceled. e: Goddamn she calls him an NPC, this was ahead of its time KICK BAMA KICK fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Feb 13, 2019 |
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Feb 13, 2019 07:01
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Yeah the kek threw me too, I did that Confidant rank over the weekend.
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Feb 13, 2019 09:44
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It was a WoW and starcraft meme before it was appropriated by shitheads
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Mar 1, 2019 15:59
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Flytrap posted:Huh. Don't know where the Hell I got the other thing from then. Shadow Yu in P4 arena is like that, calling other people vermin and saying bonds are useless and only power matters, etc. je1 healthcare posted:It was a WoW and starcraft meme before it was appropriated by shitheads It was onomatopoeia for laughter in Korean before that.
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Mar 1, 2019 16:10
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KICK BAMA KICK posted:And the game doesn't even have him express that toward those characters, instead it's a totally contrived conflict with Ryuji that causes the breakup. It doesn't help that Morgana is a huge piece of poo poo towards Ryuji from the very start for literally no reason. Ugly In The Morning posted:Also something as small as a character bring up to Morgana that he rags on Ryuji for being a dumbass while constantly doing dumber poo poo would have made it way less frustrating. As it is it feels like the game just expects you to agree with Morgana for like no reason. The director of p3/4/5 said morgana and teddie are his favorite characters from those games, so...
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Mar 1, 2019 16:16
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Cuntellectual posted:It doesn't help that Morgana is a huge piece of poo poo towards Ryuji from the very start for literally no reason. morgana is a huge piece of poo poo towards ryuji because he's a haughty know-it-all who uses his presumed competence as a phantom thief to cope with his identity issues, and as his role in the group wanes he starts to panic and bashes ryuji harder and harder to compensate until everything blows up this could have been a nice little arc if the writers hadn't just give up and wandered away from it after a rousing game of Catch the Catbus
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Mar 1, 2019 16:32
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Does any of Morgana's dialogue change at all if you're in a romantic relationship with Ann? Anything like 'stop trying to mack on my girl, cat?'
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Mar 1, 2019 16:37
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Dawgstar posted:Does any of Morgana's dialogue change at all if you're in a romantic relationship with Ann? Anything like 'stop trying to mack on my girl, cat?' Nope. Oxxidation posted:morgana is a huge piece of poo poo towards ryuji because he's a haughty know-it-all who uses his presumed competence as a phantom thief to cope with his identity issues, and as his role in the group wanes he starts to panic and bashes ryuji harder and harder to compensate until everything blows up I hate every second Morgana opens his stupid cartoon mouth, but it's not like he ever rags on Joker even if you pick the exact same options as Ryuji is saying.
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Mar 1, 2019 16:41
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Cuntellectual posted:Nope. Eh, its a really natural dynamic. Ryuji's basically the 'safe' person in the group to pick on. He says a lot of dumb stuff and out of the original group he is the only one Morgana isn't super close to (lives with Joker, huge crush on Anne). As the group grows, Ryuji becomes the guy that collectively gets dunked on so Morgana steps up his poo poo to deal with his insecurity especially as Makoto and Futaba take over his role and effectively replace him. So because he feels like poo poo he lashes out at Ryuji to prove he's still better/more important than him and Ryuji gives it back. He's basically trying to assure himself, and the rest of the group, that he's still important/better than someone and Ryuji has clearly always been the member of the group he felt most superior to. Remember, outside of a few vague ideas about the Metaverse Morgana has no memories or identity. 6 people in the entire world can understand him. Once he loses most of what made him important and special... Zore fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 1, 2019 |
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Mar 1, 2019 18:04
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Morgana's an rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 1, 2019 18:15
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I'm going through the game for the first time and am almost towards the end (I'm 2 weeks away from the election) and Morgana pulling the "you think I'm worthless? Well gently caress you I'm gonna do my own thing!" Kind of shows hes a selfish prick. As a side note I want to romance Makoto, but it feels like voting for Kamala Harris cause shes a cop.
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Mar 1, 2019 18:20
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seiferguy posted:I'm going through the game for the first time and am almost towards the end (I'm 2 weeks away from the election) and Morgana pulling the "you think I'm worthless? Well gently caress you I'm gonna do my own thing!" Kind of shows hes a selfish prick. Makoto is cool, but she is immensely disserviced by her Social Link. It's barely about her at all, and is one of the most uninteresting links in the game. Futaba and Haru are much better in that regard
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Mar 1, 2019 18:58
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Yeah Makoto's social link reads more like it's actually the other girl's. Pretty much every single social link in the game involves character growth, which is sort of supposed to be the point of these things, but Makoto does not grow or learn anything at all, she just ends up being right as usual. The entire setup is kind of silly, too, where her initial goal is "I need to connect with my classmates" and then it immediately leaves that behind for doing a crime investigation in the red-light district with her takeaway being that she wants to be a cop. The whole idea of her even needing a social link is sort of undercut by her character having essentially no major flaws. She's "supposed" to be socially naive but that character trait disappears the second they need her to move the plot forward. poo poo, she's even the one who needs to tell you you're not charming enough to pretend to be her boyfriend. So much for her calling people to the student council office for friendship interviews, seems you jumped that hurdle pretty quick, huh. Ann was sort of the same way, where you're constantly trying to help her solve this non-existent pretend problem, and as a result the most interesting parts of hers are the parts with Shiho.
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Mar 1, 2019 19:18
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Seems like this game has some poor writing. Is it still worth playing? I loved 4.
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Mar 1, 2019 20:46
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sponges posted:Seems like this game has some poor writing. Is it still worth playing? I loved 4. Persona 4 also has some poor writing, OP.
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Mar 1, 2019 20:49
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P5 is a land of contrasts. I've spent more time than anyone should poring over the script so that's a source of a lot of my criticisms, it's not necessarily all stuff you'll notice on a more casual run.
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Mar 1, 2019 21:00
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Arist posted:P5 is a land of contrasts. Truth. Ask me about how Persona 5 simultaneously handles female sexuality and empowerment very well and extremely badly. Sometimes at the same time!
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Mar 1, 2019 21:48
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I was semi-reluctantly onboard with Morgana due to his character up until his "betrayal" and afterwards it felt like complete narrative whiplash to suddenly be all buddy-buddy with him so much so that I disliked him all the way through to the end, pretty much. sponges posted:Seems like this game has some poor writing. Is it still worth playing? I loved 4. 4 (Golden) is my favorite Persona game and I still super enjoyed 5 overall. It does a whole lot of things right (or even better than 4 did) and I wouldn't say the writing is "bad" but I guess in some respects it's not up to the standards set before it. Definitely play it because it sure is a Persona game through and through and if you liked 4 I don't see why you wouldn't enjoy it because it has a lot of stuff worth experiencing for yourself.
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Mar 1, 2019 21:58
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Kaza42 posted:Truth. Ask me about how Persona 5 simultaneously handles female sexuality and empowerment very well and extremely badly. Sometimes at the same time! Is Ann the answer to both?
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Mar 1, 2019 22:31
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BrightWing posted:Is Ann the answer to both? Pretty much. Her showdown scene with Kamoshida is fantastic, as is her discussion of how she views the sexy catburglar as a power fantasy. But the way she's animated just makes her eye candy rather than empowered, and there's that creepy stripping thing in the second arc (along with a bunch of other small examples). They were soooo close to getting it right
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Mar 1, 2019 22:35
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The stripping thing is doubly unfortunate because the 50 layers of clothing was a great gag
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Mar 1, 2019 22:40
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Kaza42 posted:Pretty much. Her showdown scene with Kamoshida is fantastic, as is her discussion of how she views the sexy catburglar as a power fantasy. But the way she's animated just makes her eye candy rather than empowered, and there's that creepy stripping thing in the second arc (along with a bunch of other small examples). They were soooo close to getting it right Ann felt like a bad take on Bayonetta to me. The scene after beating Kamoshida owns though, yes.
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Mar 1, 2019 22:43
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sponges posted:Seems like this game has some poor writing. Is it still worth playing? I loved 4. Each game excels in different things. P4 had a thrillride story that made people much more willing to forgive some of the narrative holes, and while some of the social links were cool, most were just sort of there. P5 works the opposite where the main story doesn't (and I would argue couldn't possibly) hold up to P4, and so the small things start to add up. However, with maybe two exceptions, all the social links are the best and most interesting in the entire series. All the side story work is great. The writing is only "bad" in the sense that it's not as great as P4, which was pretty much wholly regarded as one of the best JRPGs of all time on release, so yeah P5 is absolutely worth playing. Heck, I think there's even main story stuff I don't like in P4 and think P5 does better. Everyone including me hates Morgana, but man the parts where Morgana is being a poo poo is so few and far between when you compare to how Teddie commanded the attention and basically ruined every scene he was in once he got his body. The second half of the game with Teddie yelling during every single scene is the primary thing that stops me from replaying it - P4 came out ten years ago and I've still only played through it once. P5 is only two years old and I've already beaten it twice and am considering a third.
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Mar 1, 2019 23:18
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:Each game excels in different things. P4 had a thrillride story that made people much more willing to forgive some of the narrative holes, and while some of the social links were cool, most were just sort of there. P5 works the opposite where the main story doesn't (and I would argue couldn't possibly) hold up to P4, and so the small things start to add up. However, with maybe two exceptions, all the social links are the best and most interesting in the entire series. All the side story work is great. The writing is only "bad" in the sense that it's not as great as P4, which was pretty much wholly regarded as one of the best JRPGs of all time on release, so yeah P5 is absolutely worth playing. This feels weird to me. P4 had by far my least favorite story of the three recent personas. It was just... slow and dull for the most part? It lacks the character depth of Persona 3, or the energy of Persona 5. What about P4 appealed to you that much?
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Mar 1, 2019 23:22
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Kaza42 posted:This feels weird to me. P4 had by far my least favorite story of the three recent personas. It was just... slow and dull for the most part? It lacks the character depth of Persona 3, or the energy of Persona 5. What about P4 appealed to you that much? Firstly, I think it's fair to call on the success of P4 as this isn't just me, the game's story is pretty widely regarded as being really really good. P3 gives you a goal at the beginning, but it's not an interesting one. Kill 12 shadows, save world. Even along that straight path there's very few twists. The character work is primarily the draw to the game, but there's no point in that game where you're like "man I GOTTA see what happens next." Even the threat of the shadows and Apathy Syndrome gets kind of left by the wayside - after the opening cutscene, you stop shadows basically stop attacking people, and the only apathy victims are nameless NPCs who hang around the environment. By the time the stakes start to rise and the town starts getting more and more populated with the lost, you're already in the final act. The main story is tertiary and primarily serves as a setting for the character work. For the record, P3 is my favorite game in the series, but the unfolding of the central story is not what you're there for. Persona 4 is a total 180 on this formula by turning into a murder mystery, and that's how it hooks you. This game DOES make you want to know what happens next, which is something not only did P3 not do, I would say most JRPGs don't do. From the very beginning of 4 you know what the stakes are, and it manages to hold the momentum without getting too stale despite the runtime. For a game that expects you to solve it, it doesn't make it super obvious either. It also takes a totally different approach to the Investigation Team as it did SEES, where it took lots of time to give you scenes of the whole team hanging out and acting like a real group of friends, which if you look at the main criticisms of 5, was exactly what people wanted out of the Phantom Thieves. P4 was such a genre-defining game that P5 totally left its P3 influences behind to try and build upon the general structure, narrative, and character relations that 4 worked with. But again, all of that returns to the core premise of the game that carries all these things along with it. All that time it spends on the goofy character development makes the really serious scenes that much more impactful. It's easy to criticize the story in retrospect once you know all the answers in a game all about solving it, but I can't think of a game I would rather erase from my memory so I could play it again for the first time. I beat P4 in like four and a half real-time days, with eighty hours on the in-game clock RazzleDazzleHour fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Mar 1, 2019 |
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Mar 1, 2019 23:55
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:Firstly, I think it's fair to call on the success of P4 as this isn't just me, the game's story is pretty widely regarded as being really really good. Fair enough. Didn't mean to imply you were wrong or weird for favoring P4, just curious about what someone else took from the story. Thanks for taking the time to explain your reasoning!
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Mar 2, 2019 00:24
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Persona 4 had a good story because Chie was my friend. Even if she wanted to be a cop. Persona 4 is a game of contrasts.
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Mar 2, 2019 01:16
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A bit late, but I'd like to talk about Ann's confidant real quick, since it came up. Ann is all about her lack of commitment to anything. She comes up with a bunch of schemes for self improvement, but they're all shallow things that she barely puts any thought into. Then when she runs into any resistance she immediately gives up. Her modeling career is something that she's good at, but she just sort of fell into it because her parents work in the industry. She also puts in zero effort, which is what pisses off Mika, the other model, so much. Ann skates by on natural beauty and nepotism while Mika diets, exercises, schemes, and basically claws her way for every advantage she can get. Similarly with Shiho, who's putting herself through absolute hell as part of her rehab, these two are meant to be a wake up call for Ann. So she finally gets the picture and starts putting in the effort to get better at her job, she doesn't indulge in every treat that she wants and she gets Ryuji to help her exercise. It's why ultimately Ann says she can't hate Mika, because she's trying SO HARD and Ann realizes that she admires that, like the supervillainess that she liked as a kid. tl;dr Ann's S-Link is cool and good and I like it a lot.
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Mar 2, 2019 02:05
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The thing I don't like about Ann's social link is that when she decides she wants to become "stronger," all the things she thinks of on her own are loving stupid things that maybe a five year old would come up with if you asked them how to be strong and it makes her seem like just an absolute moron. Like, I know they were supposed to be funny, but they come off as really insultingly juvenile which I don't think Ann is and is never characterized as in the main story.
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Mar 2, 2019 02:37
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Alacron posted:A bit late, but I'd like to talk about Ann's confidant real quick, since it came up. The problem I have with Ann's social link is the same problem I had with Rise's social link back in Persona 4: it reduces the toxic practices of exploitative industries down into being about the personal hang-ups of individual women rather than a cycle of systematic oppression that seeks to commodify them. In Persona 4 they briefly acknowledge "Gee, it's kind of hosed up that a 16 year old girl is being blatantly sexualized in a commercial" but then you do her social link and it turns out "But that's just how it is! And if Rise wants to continue to do this as a career she's got to get over it and get right back to being sexuliazed! Because if she doesn't do it another girl will!". In Ann's social link they don't even bother to acknowledge "Gee, it's pretty hosed up that the modeling industry turns women against each other in their quest to be the most objectified" and skips right to "Ann isn't working hard enough to be objectified!", which leaves kind of a bad taste in a game that's (allegedly) about attacking unfair/cruel systems. The system is not wrong, these women failing to fit into the system is what's wrong. Also: Ann is 17. Since when is it such a problem for 17 year old to not have her entire life systematically planned out? Goof off, eat some crepes, enjoy your high metabolism while you can kid, there'll be plenty of time for diets and working throughout the rest of your life. If Ann was in her twenties or thirties a "get your poo poo together and start taking your job seriously" arc would have felt a lot more appropriate.
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Mar 2, 2019 03:09
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| # ? May 16, 2024 23:51 |
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:The problem I have with Ann's social link is the same problem I had with Rise's social link back in Persona 4: it reduces the toxic practices of exploitative industries down into being about the personal hang-ups of individual women rather than a cycle of systematic oppression that seeks to commodify them. In Persona 4 they briefly acknowledge "Gee, it's kind of hosed up that a 16 year old girl is being blatantly sexualized in a commercial" but then you do her social link and it turns out "But that's just how it is! And if Rise wants to continue to do this as a career she's got to get over it and get right back to being sexuliazed! Because if she doesn't do it another girl will!". In Ann's social link they don't even bother to acknowledge "Gee, it's pretty hosed up that the modeling industry turns women against each other in their quest to be the most objectified" and skips right to "Ann isn't working hard enough to be objectified!", which leaves kind of a bad taste in a game that's (allegedly) about attacking unfair/cruel systems. The system is not wrong, these women failing to fit into the system is what's wrong. It's its own can of worms I guess quote:Also: Ann is 17. Since when is it such a problem for 17 year old to not have her entire life systematically planned out? Goof off, eat some crepes, enjoy your high metabolism while you can kid, there'll be plenty of time for diets and working throughout the rest of your life. If Ann was in her twenties or thirties a "get your poo poo together and start taking your job seriously" arc would have felt a lot more appropriate.
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Mar 2, 2019 03:48
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