|
Timby posted:It's a five-minute-long "clip" and most of it is incomprehensible in terms of the actual battling. It's just a zillion ships firing differently colored pew-pews at each other and you can't tell what the gently caress is happening. One of the things that struck me as I was watching the episode was the sense of scale and distance, the battle starts off near the lunar farside and becomes a running fight over the surface (with lots of neat details like at least one ship getting shot down and crashing into the moon) and into Earth's orbit with the good guy fleet sustaining lots of dramatic losses. There's nothing inherently groundbreaking about it but it's done very well and I would never have guessed the story would have ended up here starting in part one, even considering that I've seen all of Trek before like everyone else has I can't stand nonsensical action scenes because they're everywhere but this space battle was very clear. I know this show is in lots of ways a throwback to 90's sci fi but it's like some of you are actually watching this on a dying CRT from 1987 or something like clear the poo poo out of your eyes son its a new day Angry Salami posted:That sure is the same 3 ship designs cut and pasted a few dozen times. There's big gently caress off cruisers and midsized ships and the hero vessel is noticeably different so you can easily pick it out from the rest of the fleet, there are fighters, etc. The Kaylon have two designs but the Krill fleet is apparently all cruisers and fighters. This is sort of a weird complaint from the thread about a show that ran with the same three or four physical miniatures to represent an entire Federation's space navy for how long?
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 07:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 18:39 |
|
|
Is this what it sounds like when I’m defending Discovery?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 07:48
|
|
|
Geekboy posted:Is this what it sounds like when I’m defending Discovery? Hmm.. Nothing about trellises so nope.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 07:59
|
|
|
I like both DISCO and ORVIL well enough but I am currently working through Babylon 5 for the first time and find them both "cute" in comparison 
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 08:04
|
|
|
I watched the full episode of the Orville and I will say that while the battle had a lot of stuff and action, it was mostly just flashing lights. I thought it was kinda bland too.AlBorlantern Corps posted:Those battles are just one or two capital ships fighting off a bunch of fighters. The Orville battle effectively was shot as a fighter battle. All the ships were basically twirling and shooting like fighters. BSG battles have just as many zippy participants, just with a few big ships looming over them. And there's much more of a structure. Part of that is because of the capital ship/fighter divide: by having the hundreds-of-these-ships-all-over-the-place as small fighters it means that we can focus on and keep track of the fewer big players better. (I was going to link a video of the Battle of the Ionian Nebula here but I can't find a decent one.) That said, this was impressive for what they probably had as resources. They had to depict 'massive scale fight' with relatively models and I'm guessing not that much budget compared to BSG, and it certainly doesn't look small. It's incredible they were able to get as much chaos and activity in there for as long as they did. But it's not anywhere near as memorable as the big battles in past series which had more of a narrative. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Mar 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 09:02
|
|
|
lol but seriously I posted:I like both DISCO and ORVIL well enough but I am currently working through Babylon 5 for the first time and find them both "cute" in comparison 
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 09:21
|
|
|
not got to this yet but it loving rules
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 09:27
|
|
|
So DS9 and Babylon 5 both had Dragon Ball Z episodes, but it's pretty clear which one did them better. Spaceship battles are a tricky thing. Usually the visual language is basically something vaguely like naval battles, Star Trek usually leaning towards the Age of Sail with broadsides and circling while Star Wars generally has WW2 fighter and warship engagements. Gundam also comes to mind in that genre and is often somewhere between WW2 aerial combat and samurai duels. Now I want to see a Star Trek episode where they run into an alien civilisation that for no reason the characters can understand primarily use giant robots for space warfare.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 09:58
|
|
|
Star Trek's stuff was limited by the fact that they had a minimum quality of visual fidelity they wanted, so they had to limit themselves. Babylon 5's philosophy was the opposite: depict what they want to show happening no matter if they could pull it off or not. They did go a bit overboard sometimes. Shots like 1:56 here can be a bit cartoonish for the (half-kilometre-long) White Star.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 10:24
|
|
|
Tighclops posted:The battle was great because of all the setup, you're not going to get that from a goddamn clip you fools I’ve seen every episode of The Orville and I can say that for me, the setup makes the battle considerably worse. It played out beat-for-beat pretty much how everyone thought it would. It didn’t capitalize on any of the interesting ideas established in the previous episode (the Kaylon being able to just remotely shut down other ships, for example). That’s the show’s big setback; it’s so enamoured with nostalgia, it’s never going to surprise you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 14:09
|
|
|
What do you mean, they never remotely shut down any ships. Unless you been the Orville itself that was physically connected to their docking rigs
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 14:18
|
|
|
AlBorlantern Corps posted:What do you mean, they never remotely shut down any ships. Unless you been the Orville itself that was physically connected to their docking rigs They took total control of the Orville in seconds. That would have been a cool twist on the battle. Instead it’s your standard “Oh, no, they have more pew pews! Wait! Here come more pew pews for us! Victory!”
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 14:21
|
|
|
They boarded the ship in order to take control of it, there was a firefight. Are you thinking of a different episode?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 14:23
|
|
|
Well that's where you need the context of the episode because it's not just "MORE PEW PEWS", it's "we managed to make a huge diplomatic break-through via common enemy with a heavily religious enemy and they came to our aid in a time of need". A race who regularly just ignores hails and responds by immediately attacking. pew pew pew pew
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 14:25
|
|
|
AlBorlantern Corps posted:They boarded the ship in order to take control of it, there was a firefight. Are you thinking of a different episode? They boarded the ship (through the doors they remotely opened from outside) to take the crew hostage. MillennialVulcan posted:Well that's where you need the context of the episode because it's not just "MORE PEW PEWS", it's "we managed to make a huge diplomatic break-through via common enemy with a heavily religious enemy and they came to our aid in a time of need". A race who regularly just ignores hails and responds by immediately attacking. That’s not particularly interesting or surprising, though. The Krill are pretty shallow antagonists thus far, and people were predicting that “twist” minutes after the first episode aired. Deep Space Nine did the same kind of thing to much better effect with the Romulans. Phylodox fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Mar 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 14:25
|
|
|
I don't think hacking a door of a ship physically connected to your docking clamps open is equivalent to being able to take complete control of an enemy vessel remotely.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 14:39
|
|
|
AlBorlantern Corps posted:I don't think hacking a door of a ship physically connected to your docking clamps open is equivalent to being able to take complete control of an enemy vessel remotely. Why not? Who says it isn’t? This is fiction, literally everything is exactly as easy or hard as the plot dictates.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 14:45
|
|
|
Oh my God I'm in late season 3 of Babylon 5 right now and I completely forgot about the Z Minus 10 Days poo poo it's so ridiculously corny and good
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 15:21
|
|
|
So I won a film festival this past weekend with my animated Trek parody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcqASLUyaKI
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 15:26
|
|
|
Congrats man, I enjoyed it. Especially "A shapeshifting assassin? This assignment just got really tedious."
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 15:53
|
|
|
AlBorlantern Corps posted:Oh my God I'm in late season 3 of Babylon 5 right now and I completely forgot about the Z Minus 10 Days poo poo it's so ridiculously corny and good That's one of the best parts of B5 - not only that specific event (but let's be honest here, it is), but the fact that it telegraphs a taste of what's coming, but not quite enough to give you the full picture in context. Londo's vision of his death is another. The show never lies about what's coming, but it's happy to lead your assumptions more than a little astray. It's eating its cake and having it too, spoiler-wise.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 17:20
|
|
|
Phylodox posted:I’ve seen every episode of The Orville and I can say that for me, the setup makes the battle considerably worse. It played out beat-for-beat pretty much how everyone thought it would. It didn’t capitalize on any of the interesting ideas established in the previous episode (the Kaylon being able to just remotely shut down other ships, for example). That’s the show’s big setback; it’s so enamoured with nostalgia, it’s never going to surprise you. One of the main characters literally tells you the point of the show at the end and you still missed it or are simply uninterested in a Star Trek style series at this point I was plenty surprised and engaged by these episodes, and I'm sick of "we're selling your childhood back to you because you have no future!" so I doubt very much that I'm enamoured by the beige spaceship walls to the point of blindness.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 17:59
|
|
|
That Orville space battle was good for the reasons people mentioned, but it didn't make a huge impression on me tbh. Really enjoyed the episode/s as a whole though, and the show is still young enough that I couldn't really be sure how certain main characters would end up. I know Plinkett Reviews always get brought up but I'm reminded of the discussion of Episode III's intro scene. A sprawling space battle in which the viewer has no concept of stakes, story context, or even who is fighting against whom. None of those problems applied to the Orville battle so that was good!
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 18:01
|
|
|
Old Story posted:Congrats man, I enjoyed it. You are too kind. That's probably one of my favorite lines too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 18:06
|
|
|
Tighclops posted:One of the main characters literally tells you the point of the show at the end and you still missed it or are simply uninterested in a Star Trek style series at this point That doesn’t make the battle or the episode any better. It’s not pointless and I never said it was. It’s just wholly predictable. quote:I was plenty surprised and engaged by these episodes, and I'm sick of "we're selling your childhood back to you because you have no future!" so I doubt very much that I'm enamoured by the beige spaceship walls to the point of blindness. Just out of curiosity, what surprised you about that episode?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 18:25
|
|
|
It's ok to not be surprised all the time
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 18:43
|
|
|
What!?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 18:49
|
|
|
AlBorlantern Corps posted:It's ok to not be surprised all the time Again, I’m not saying it’s not. But that episode was a let down for me. I like The Orville, but I’m disappointed when it shows some promise to go beyond its “What if Voyager but with better effects!” premise and then fails to deliver.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 18:52
|
|
|
Phylodox posted:Again, I’m not saying it’s not. But that episode was a let down for me. I like The Orville, but I’m disappointed when it shows some promise to go beyond its “What if Voyager but with better effects!” premise and then fails to deliver. Is this a Berenstein/Berenstain thing? Are some of us watching different Orville episodes?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 19:41
|
|
|
I haven't had a chance to watch The Orville yet, but I'm getting the feeling that posting that clip is kind of equivalent to telling somebody about a really funny stand-up comedy bit. It just doesn't seem special out of context.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 19:46
|
|
|
McNally posted:Is this a Berenstein/Berenstain thing? Are some of us watching different Orville episodes? It’s nowhere near as good as Next Generation(‘s average episodes) or Deep Space Nine. I’d say an average episode of The Orville is somewhere in the ballpark of a particularly good episode of Voyager or a particularly meh episode of Next Gen. Just with contemporary special effects.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 20:29
|
|
|
Yeah I guess the meh episodes of TNG and the weird season 1 episodes of DS9 are some of my favorite ones.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 20:32
|
|
|
Phylodox posted:It’s nowhere near as good as Next Generation(‘s average episodes) or Deep Space Nine. I’d say an average episode of The Orville is somewhere in the ballpark of a particularly good episode of Voyager or a particularly meh episode of Next Gen. Just with contemporary special effects. To be fair, that's a pretty good space to occupy as an average. There are a few clunkers and a few really good episodes, and for the most part otherwise it's pretty solid. If Voyager had been like this... well, maybe it still wouldn't be as highly regarded as TNG and DS9, but it would be respectable and you'd be able to say them in the same breath.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 20:57
|
|
|
Wow that Orville clip was not pretty. Very wooden acting and everything looks really generic. Discovery and the Expanse make space combat much more visually interesting, this was just a mess of ships and beams. And the quality of the CGI was pretty ropey at times. Was this sequence considered a highlight?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 21:24
|
|
|
Showing "highlights" out of context hardly works for any show. If you don't already have feelings for/about characters and settings "We have engaged the Borg" don't mean poo poo, either.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 21:29
|
|
|
TOS: The Menagerie - I never actually saw the Cage, so this was nice to see. The whole story with Spock's mutiny and hearing was loving insane, in a humorously ballsy way that says "we had the material, let's make a cheap two-parter." Pike seemed like kind of a psycho and the actor looked like Ray Liotta. TNG: The Neutral Zone - I'd forgotten how much play the Romulans get after this, presumably because the Ferengi didn't work out. Weird to combine their dramatic return at the end of the 1st season with such a doofy story with the 21st century defrosted people keeping the crew busy. I suspect I hated the stockbroker as a kid, but kind of loved now how he exposes how garbage security is on the ship because everyone's on the honor system, plus he does Troi's job for her. TNG: Where Silence Has Lease - holy poo poo Picard's crazy "Everyone on this ship is prepared to die" doesn't this ship also have lots of civilians on it? A Matter of Honor and Measure of a Man are so good. I find that while I used to hate Wesley and Pulaski, I've warmed to them a lot. While Wesley is a bit annoying in the first few episodes, later I'm mostly struck with what a cock Picard is to him (though of course, he never made a secret of hating kids). It gets to be a relief when Riker sticks up for him in Where No One Has Gone Before. With Pulaski, they just made the mistake of having a new character bully an established one. Had she been there since season 1 that would've been fine, and she starts to get a rapport with Data over the course of the season. Very fun to have an acerbic character on the stiff TNG cast too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 21:29
|
|
|
I love how the penalty for going to that planet is death because the illusion powers of the talosians are too tempting, and like 70 years later every ship basically has that exact same thing built in and everyone is like "Wow this is great!"
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 21:31
|
|
|
davidspackage posted:TNG: Where Silence Has Lease - holy poo poo Picard's crazy Especially when it comes to early-season episodes, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if some of the writers basically said "pffft, gently caress it, I'm gonna write this show as if there isn't a boatload of children on board." There wasn't really a coherent writing staff on the show back then. AlBorlantern Corps posted:I love how the penalty for going to that planet is death because the illusion powers of the talosians are too tempting, and like 70 years later every ship basically has that exact same thing built in and everyone is like "Wow this is great!" I think it's less "if we let people go there then they'll never want to leave" and more "if we let a starship get near there the Talosians could take it over and springboard their way into conquering us" without realizing just how far out the Talosians could reach people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 21:42
|
|
|
Is that from that Rangers movie? I wanted more B5 so bad at that point and I still turned it off after that drat martial arts spaceship gun star chamber.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 21:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 18:39 |
|
|
davidspackage posted:"Everyone on this ship is prepared to die" doesn't this ship also have lots of civilians on it? Those kids knew what they signed up for.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 21:58
|
|
