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Admiralty Flag posted:About the enlisted/officer distinction -- IIRC the TOS bible or one of Roddenberry's letters around the time made the point that everyone in Starfleet serving aboard a vessel is by definition an astronaut, and all astronauts were military officers (no mission specialists because there was no shuttle yet), so there wouldn't be enlisted men aboard ships. Somebody has to clean the space toilets/slop food onto trays on the mess deck/mop the deck after the aliens goop it up. You going to make a noble officer do that?
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Mar 7, 2019 22:04
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Cessna posted:Somebody has to clean the space toilets/slop food onto trays on the mess deck/mop the deck after the aliens goop it up. You going to make a noble officer do that? No we’re going to make the space millennials do that so they can learn to stop complaining and be happy they’re employed at all !! *shares romulan-made propaganda articles on subspace facebook*
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Mar 7, 2019 22:12
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I think the official line was that the training necessary to serve on a starship would be so extensive that pretty much everyone would need to spend a few years in an academy anyway. Roddenberry just hated the officer/enlisted divide. As I recall the original plan back when The Cage was being filmed was that you wouldn't even have that many ranks on board - it'd be the captain, a few department heads, and everyone else.
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Mar 7, 2019 22:16
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I think the official line was that the training necessary to serve on a starship would be so extensive that pretty much everyone would need to spend a few years in an academy anyway. Yeah, that makes tons of sense. In any society where money isn't a significant differentiator of performance or status it's not like there's going to be ridiculous amounts of stupid political infighting for the few available titles or any formalized recognition of prestige. Well, except for every society like that. Q.v., practically any liberal arts department at any college. e: of course this stops being an issue in the TNG timeframe when holodeck time credits become de facto money.
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Mar 7, 2019 22:31
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Probably would have made a little more sense to not use military ranks at all in the first place. The original concept drifts closer to the structure used on merchant ships too.
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Mar 7, 2019 22:31
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Roddenberry just hated the officer/enlisted divide. As I recall the original plan back when The Cage was being filmed was that you wouldn't even have that many ranks on board - it'd be the captain, a few department heads, and everyone else. That makes more sense than "all officers."
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Mar 7, 2019 23:29
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I think the official line was that the training necessary to serve on a starship would be so extensive that pretty much everyone would need to spend a few years in an academy anyway. I spent almost three years in school learning my trade, then another year-plus doing on-the-job learning. I'm not an officer. Thank god.
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Mar 8, 2019 00:39
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MikeJF posted:Yeah, that's what the writer said. From twitter: So perhaps Georgiou was training Michael as her successor?
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Mar 8, 2019 00:50
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Admiralty Flag posted:e: of course this stops being an issue in the TNG timeframe when holodeck time credits become de facto money. I'd assume holodeck time on a ship like the Enterprise-D had to be rationed just because they had 1000 people and something like 8 holodecks, which weren't just used for recreation but also for simulations and experiments.
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Mar 8, 2019 09:24
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Yeah the episode before this two parter was literally called deflector and had the b plot of the a plot Moclan installing and testing powerful new deflector shields Deflectors are so your ship doesn't get destroyed by a mote of hydrogen when it's going at not-warp though, it doesn't seem to protect their ships. There's been a few space battles and no visible shields whatsoever in any of them.
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Mar 8, 2019 14:02
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Taear posted:Deflectors are so your ship doesn't get destroyed by a mote of hydrogen when it's going at not-warp though, it doesn't seem to protect their ships. There's been a few space battles and no visible shields whatsoever in any of them. They specifically tested the new deflectors in combat though. The show just doesn't use TNG-style shield bubble visuals.
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Mar 8, 2019 14:05
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McSpanky posted:They specifically tested the new deflectors in combat though. The show just doesn't use TNG-style shield bubble visuals. Then it seems sort of mad that every hit on every ship in the show causes proper visible damage to the ship. What're those shields even doing?
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Mar 8, 2019 14:07
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Lessening the damage but not stopping all of it?
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Mar 8, 2019 14:30
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Astroman posted:So perhaps Georgiou was training Michael as her successor? That was what I assumed. Michael was gonna be next Emperor.
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Mar 8, 2019 14:59
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Watch the battle in ST VI. Star Trek didn't have bubble shields until TNG (likely because the SFX would be easier for a TV show.) The enterprise takes a pounding and has visible scars on the hull but it's not penetrated until the shields fully fail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPz-6HuM8Sc
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Mar 8, 2019 17:21
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Re-reading The 50 Year Voyage and just got to the part about The Letter. God drat, Roddenberry didn't hold back on tearing his lead actors a new one. He essentially threatened to fire Shatner if he didn't stop pulling his line-counting 'I'm the star so I get whatever I want' poo poo, and was barely less brutal to Nimoy either. I also hadn't registered that when Roddenberry came back to give the show his full attention later in season 2 after being sidetracked by other projects he deliberately made the character interactions more formal and military and cut back the humour, but in hindsight it's blindingly clear. (Ironically, I consider the earlier parts of season 2 to be the high point of TOS...)
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Mar 8, 2019 23:43
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Yes, this is Trek related.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CayMeza487M
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Mar 8, 2019 23:44
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God "The Visitor" is such a tearjerker like all the way through.
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Mar 9, 2019 05:04
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PostNouveau posted:God "The Visitor" is such a tearjerker like all the way through.
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Mar 9, 2019 05:11
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It's like watching the first 10 minutes of "Up" four times in a row
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Mar 9, 2019 05:17
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Do you guys think Sisko remembers what he saw during his event? When I first saw the episode I didn't think so. Now I kind of do. They really should have embraced that aspect of it, and let it inspire him to work harder to change the future. But then again this was still when Trek was pretty episodic.
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Mar 9, 2019 05:22
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jeeves posted:Do you guys think Sisko remembers what he saw during his event? When I first saw the episode I didn't think so. Now I kind of do. Yes. When he tackles Jake to get out of the way of the discharge, Jake asks him how he knew, and he says "I guess we got lucky ... this time"
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Mar 9, 2019 05:25
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jeeves posted:Do you guys think Sisko remembers what he saw during his event? they all remember their past/future descendant planet despite it never happening but it is by the by really there is no sequence of events that could make sisko love jake more then he already does
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Mar 9, 2019 05:26
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It's kind of fascinating how the science-fiction visual portrayal of black holes has shifted since all those simulations.
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Mar 9, 2019 05:35
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Brawnfire posted:It's kind of fascinating how the science-fiction visual portrayal of black holes has shifted since all those simulations. i think they still pussy out on the amount of red shift have not gone back to check the DISCO one. make the effortpost brawnfire
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Mar 9, 2019 05:45
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wonder how salty shatner is that not only does DISCO season 2 revolve around nimoy's iconic character but he was actually in it as well
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Mar 9, 2019 06:50
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Shatner? Never heard of her.
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Mar 9, 2019 17:14
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The shields in both series seen to totally stop weak poo poo and lessen strong attacks. I'm sure it's an arms race. They did mention on TNG that some shithole planet's attacker's lasers wouldn't even penetrate the navigational deflectors and they're probably better than anything we could throw at them now except maybe a nuke
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Mar 9, 2019 18:55
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Shatner? Not until the third date, I'm a gentleman.
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Mar 10, 2019 01:08
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bull3964 posted:Watch the battle in ST VI. Star Trek didn't have bubble shields until TNG (likely because the SFX would be easier for a TV show.) She doesn't take a through-and-through hit until the shields fail, but the outer skin is ruptured by the very first hit, it's the one to the underside of the saucer, port side. That's compartments open to space, dead crew, and damage to systems. I'd call that penetrating the shields.
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Mar 10, 2019 01:26
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"SHIELDS COLLAPSING!" - they show Scotty looking a fancier graphic of the same "shields around the ship on a 2D display" that even Wraith of Khan had with the super dated dot-lighting that Jokeem smashes his fists against. It wasn't until TNG that they used the cheaper "bubble around the ship" graphic effect for shields. It's always been cheap looking and I think the original idea was to have the shields kind of hug the skin of the ship.
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Mar 10, 2019 06:00
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If torpedos are going to be exploding and only mostly absorbed by the shields, I'd rather the shields be farther away. Obviously the tech is what it is (fictional, duh, but you know what I mean) but I always liked the bubble shield seeming similar in size to the warp field
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Mar 10, 2019 06:18
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Bubble shields come in hand if you happen to be trying to escape a dyson sphere and have an old ship you don't need anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1yRLPD3NJc&t=40s
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Mar 10, 2019 07:43
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jeeves posted:It wasn't until TNG that they used the cheaper "bubble around the ship" graphic effect for shields. It's always been cheap looking and I think the original idea was to have the shields kind of hug the skin of the ship. I'm pretty the bubble for TNG was considered more impressive and cool for the time, not cheaper.
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Mar 10, 2019 08:40
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MikeJF posted:I'm pretty the bubble for TNG was considered more impressive and cool for the time, not cheaper. I mean cheaper as in the effect looks fukken cheaper.
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Mar 10, 2019 09:14
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jeeves posted:I mean cheaper as in the effect looks fukken cheaper. Nowadays. Back then it probably looked awesome.
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Mar 10, 2019 10:13
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counterfeitsaint posted:Bubble shields come in hand if you happen to be trying to escape a dyson sphere and have an old ship you don't need anymore. Huh so they beamed Scotty & Geordi out with the shields up? Surprised my adolescent nerd brain didn’t pounce on that at the time.
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Mar 10, 2019 10:25
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Minidust posted:Huh so they beamed Scotty & Geordi out with the shields up? Surprised my adolescent nerd brain didn’t pounce on that at the time. Eh, hundred year old shields.
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Mar 10, 2019 10:30
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Minidust posted:Huh so they beamed Scotty & Geordi out with the shields up? Surprised my adolescent nerd brain didn’t pounce on that at the time. It’s probably a writer goof, but you could easily handwave it as “the transporter chief established the lock and then waited until the exact millisecond the torpedoes knocked down the shields to initiate transport”. Picard’s little pause was just to time their escape maneuver, etc.
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Mar 10, 2019 10:49
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Minidust posted:Huh so they beamed Scotty & Geordi out with the shields up? Surprised my adolescent nerd brain didn’t pounce on that at the time. Even as an adolescent, I always assumed, given the timing of Picard's orders, and the knowledge they needed the ship destroyed to get past it, that they timed the ship getting hit, losing shields, and exploding, with the transporters (with the guy running it clearly aware of the situation, and prepared to beam them out in an instant based on his own scans of the ship (the transporter has to have some scanning stuff, or it couldn't get a lock on people, right?), to snatch them in the split-second before it exploded.
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Mar 10, 2019 10:54
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