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Rookoo posted:No idea if embedding video works on these hellforums so here. It's... it's not even an online game! Holy carp, uh, 95 - Manius Acilius Glabrio is commanded by Domitian to descend into the arena of the Colosseum to fight a lion. After he kills the animal, the crowd greets him with applause, but the emperor banished and put him to death. Emperor declares: 'I never expected him to eat the lion's face!'
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Mar 11, 2019 17:00
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coffeetable posted:glad that the ukmt agrees that because i sell my labour as a hedge fund quant, i am working class Until such point as your passive income is big enough to live off or you can afford to employ other people to work at your own fund, you are, aren’t you? High income jobs just get you there quicker.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:02
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coffeetable posted:glad that the ukmt agrees that because i sell my labour as a hedge fund quant, i am working class If it makes you feel any better pal that's still pretty awful
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Mar 11, 2019 17:02
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Beefeater1980 posted:Until such point as your passive income is big enough to live off or you can afford to employ other people to work at your own fund, you are, aren’t you? High income jobs just get you there quicker. Though I would argue that this shifting of the odds on the bet that is your life does represent a far more meaningful class-like distinction than what accent you have, even if it also pales in comparison to the actual marxist classes.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:03
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Azza Bamboo posted:My theory: May isn't in Strasbourg, she's just absent from the question in order to embarrass everyone who had pre written speeches addressing her. she's hiding in Westminster Abbey as it stands
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Mar 11, 2019 17:05
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imo the existence of a middle class really is a difficulty for the more dogmatically marxist fortunately it looks like it was all a historical aberration and is going to leave us in peace soon
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Mar 11, 2019 17:06
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lmfao https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1105119545495375872 https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1105121681213980672
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Mar 11, 2019 17:06
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Noxville posted:https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1105096047024619521?s=21 Yeah this is one of the bad takes I saw doing the rounds, turns out it did make it to the front pages after all! See also: "they were conceived for a purpose" and "she named the kids after [bad people] so they weren't meant to grow up to be footballers and ballet dancers", very healthy and normal attitudes and definitely nothing like the extremist mindset they claim to be horrified by
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Mar 11, 2019 17:08
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V. Illych L. posted:imo the existence of a middle class really is a difficulty for the more dogmatically marxist No economic definition of class is perfect, but for the sake of driving the basic point of inequality home, I like to go with “if you work for a living, you’re working class.”
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Mar 11, 2019 17:09
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coffeetable posted:glad that the ukmt agrees that because i sell my labour as a hedge fund quant, i am working class Do you also have investments / own a rental property / speculate in any way?
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Mar 11, 2019 17:09
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V. Illych L. posted:imo the existence of a middle class really is a difficulty for the more dogmatically marxist Eh, I would suggest you can't trust the HENRY bastards because they do actually stand to gain from a lot of tory policies. So they probably vote bad and are prone to wrongthink for that reason. But they aren't actually an economic problem the way the actual booj are. A political one yes, but not an economic one.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:11
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V. Illych L. posted:imo the existence of a middle class really is a difficulty for the more dogmatically marxist
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Mar 11, 2019 17:15
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WhatEvil posted:Do you also have investments / own a rental property / speculate in any way? Their posts always amount to a humblebrag about wealth infused with some victorian attitude on philanthropy, I don't think you're meant to take them seriously.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:15
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OwlFancier posted:Eh, I would suggest you can't trust the HENRY bastards because they do actually stand to gain from a lot of tory policies. So they probably vote bad and are prone to wrongthink for that reason. But they aren't actually an economic problem the way the actual booj are. A political one yes, but not an economic one. not 100% convinced those two can be easily separated
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Mar 11, 2019 17:16
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Tesseraction posted:lmfao I don't like this. It seems like they're signalling to vote for her lovely deal. I was really hoping that with enough chaos we could actually make it to no brexit.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:17
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OwlFancier posted:I mean, as passably posh RP accent on demand haver, it sort of helps but it doesn't actually fix your lovely circumstances. Being born into money is easy mode in itself. Social signifiers can make your life easier, but they won't let you into the easy lane by themselves. V. Illych L. posted:imo the existence of a middle class really is a difficulty for the more dogmatically marxist Not really though? Straight from Marx you have have the bourg, the petty bourg and the proletariat (and possibly the lumpen as a final category), which seems to cover most people.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:18
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So suppose a VONC actually passes but then the government refuses to stop being the government, what happens next?
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Mar 11, 2019 17:19
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imo socialism cannot be built as long as there is a gigantic and lucrative private trade in homes the marketisation of homes, making people buy into the market system at a large personal cost, was a stroke of genius by the thatcherites i mean it's completely dysfunctional as a market, but it really did give people something to lose along with their chains
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Mar 11, 2019 17:19
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Hobo posted:No economic definition of class is perfect, but for the sake of driving the basic point of inequality home, I like to go with “if you work for a living, you’re working class.” With emphasis on "for a living" (i.e. I will literally die if I do not work) since (in the US at least) the ultra rich are working more hours than ever because they apparently cannot find anything else to give their lives meaning. It's loving scary. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/ https://www.forbes.com/2006/05/20/working-rich-pyschology_cx_bn_06work_0523rich.html
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Mar 11, 2019 17:20
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thespaceinvader posted:I do the same, but with dialectical elements. Dialectal, surely  On accents, I am super fortunate that my parents in Tyneside always demanded that I speak 'properly' (which sure does have classist overcomes looking back) which in practice means I have a distinctively northern accent but don't really use specific NE dialect words so I'm intelligible to everyone and can flatten my accent even further if I need to. It's honestly the perfect combo and there isn't really any audience I can't adapt to, which has been way more useful than I used to give it credit for. Guavanaut posted:Depends how petty you want to get. I think super orthodox Marxism does struggle with artisans and other one person private enterprises where there's no labour exploitation but the person isn't really selling their labour and certainly isn't necessarily rich. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 17:23
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Cerebral Bore posted:Being born into money is easy mode in itself. Social signifiers can make your life easier, but they won't let you into the easy lane by themselves. petit-bourgeoisie are more your shop-owners or independent contractors or what have you, the existence of a highly paid mass of people on actual salaries is really bizarre in a strict marxist framework effectively i'd try to rationalise it as a concession to keep liberal democracy going, but nobody's irreplaceable enough to actually warrant a salary in the hundreds of thousands of punds in the UK
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Mar 11, 2019 17:24
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AceOfFlames posted:With emphasis on "for a living" (i.e. I will literally die if I do not work) since (in the US at least) the ultra rich are working more hours than ever because they apparently cannot find anything else to give their lives meaning. It's loving scary. also rich people work includes poo poo like golfing with the chaps, hunting foxes, having dinner &c so their hours are wildly inflated
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Mar 11, 2019 17:25
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"Back in the Commons, Labour’s Kevin Brennan says it is customary on this occasion to says people have the monkey, not the organ-grinder. But on this occasion MPs have not even got the monkey, he says. And they have not even got the codpiece, he says." https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-politics-live ...what??
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Mar 11, 2019 17:26
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V. Illych L. posted:not 100% convinced those two can be easily separated Which two? HENRYs and booj? Booj are your actual millions in the bank owners of things. HENRYs are your overpaid dorks on £150k a year. They may transition into petty booj, yes, and this is why they're untrustworthy, but you don't need to literally murder all of them to fix the world. Your actual turbobooj billionaires definitely have to go, and probably at gunpoint cos they won't volunteer.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:26
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V. Illych L. posted:petit-bourgeoisie are more your shop-owners or independent contractors or what have you, the existence of a highly paid mass of people on actual salaries is really bizarre in a strict marxist framework erratum to this: if you're a part of one of the guilds that maintains arcane lore like COBOL programming or something, you might legitimately be worth that much
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Mar 11, 2019 17:27
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OwlFancier posted:Which two? HENRYs and booj? Booj are your actual millions in the bank owners of things. HENRYs are your overpaid dorks on £150k a year. They may transition into petty booj, yes, and this is why they're untrustworthy, but you don't need to literally murder all of them to fix the world. Your actual turbobooj billionaires definitely have to go, and probably at gunpoint cos they won't volunteer. political and economic problems, sorry
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Mar 11, 2019 17:28
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This shithead May has sent in her place looks/sounds like a thinner Michael MacIntyre and turns out "thinner mickey" makes him even more punchable.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:29
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V. Illych L. posted:political and economic problems, sorry Well political problems are subject to the politics of the time, economic problems are constant. Billionaires and multimillioniares are problems regardless of the politics, because their having that money is the result and cause of them having too much power. So your HENRYs can be potentially overruled, they don't wield much individual power but they do vote. People with millions can buy votes. And as you said it's changing, the divides are lengthening between have not and have, I don't think there will be as many HENRYs in the near future, but there will absolutely be far more millions and billions in the hands of the booj. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 17:29
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mediadave posted:"Back in the Commons, Labour’s Kevin Brennan says it is customary on this occasion to says people have the monkey, not the organ-grinder. But on this occasion MPs have not even got the monkey, he says. And they have not even got the codpiece, he says." the sad thing is it all does make sense
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Mar 11, 2019 17:30
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mediadave posted:"Back in the Commons, Labour’s Kevin Brennan says it is customary on this occasion to says people have the monkey, not the organ-grinder. But on this occasion MPs have not even got the monkey, he says. And they have not even got the codpiece, he says." He was making the point that neither the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU (the monkey) nor the PM (the organ grinder) were in the chamber to answer questions and instead sent a junior minister (on "work experience") - The codpiece means that Geoffrey Cox is also absent for this debate
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Mar 11, 2019 17:31
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We've been trying to work out Brexit since 2016. Bercow, however, is readying himself for manuscript amendments.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:32
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Doccykins posted:He was making the point that neither the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU (the monkey) nor the PM (the organ grinder) were in the chamber to answer questions and instead sent a junior minister (on "work experience") - The codpiece means that Geoffrey Cox is also absent for this debate It should be noted that Geoffrey Cox kept referring to himself as the codpiece because ?????
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Mar 11, 2019 17:33
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Tesseraction posted:It should be noted that Geoffrey Cox kept referring to himself as the codpiece because ????? He protects the bollocks?
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Mar 11, 2019 17:33
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lol, of course Dan Hodges played a key role in the destruction of the country. https://twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/1105144150482173952?s=21
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Mar 11, 2019 17:34
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Tesseraction posted:It should be noted that Geoffrey Cox kept referring to himself as the codpiece because ????? It makes him feel bigger than he is.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:35
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V. Illych L. posted:petit-bourgeoisie are more your shop-owners or independent contractors or what have you, the existence of a highly paid mass of people on actual salaries is really bizarre in a strict marxist framework Nah, I'd argue that people who do have to work but still have capital to fall back on fit well within the petty bourg category. Most of the HENRY types have capital gains in addition to their wages, and if they don't they're just bad with money, which shouldn't really shift your objective economic class.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:35
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Darth Walrus posted:lol, of course Dan Hodges played a key role in the destruction of the country. The continuing failure to understand that European diplomats speak better English than the average Brit, and read the British papers and Twitter
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Mar 11, 2019 17:36
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Really the entire cabinet should have taken points in trader's cant.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:37
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Doccykins posted:lol Sky just reporting from The Sun that May is plotting to reduce the meaningful vote tomorrow to a provisional one and binning the other two votes its pretty close to thousands tbf
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Mar 11, 2019 17:38
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V. Illych L. posted:effectively i'd try to rationalise it as a concession to keep liberal democracy going, but nobody's irreplaceable enough to actually warrant a salary in the hundreds of thousands of punds in the UK I think about it like this: they are worth that much, not for their skills, but because their very existence drives a wedge between the working class and prevents class consciousness that would otherwise end in revolution within months. The labour price is set artificially high not because it's worth that much, but because it's vital that they think it's worth that much. This is also why many very well paying jobs are actually, when it comes down to it, way more relaxed than traditional working-class ones. Capital must be seen to do one thing while in practice it does the reverse. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 17:39
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