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HootTheOwl posted:Except you can turn that off. I don't consider "pilot error" the fault of the airplane. We pay pilots a lot of money to know how. Depends on how the pilot gets trained. Flying a type of airplane requires getting trained and certified to fly that aircraft. If the process of getting certified and trained on the aircraft doesn't leave pilots prepared to fly the aircraft across multiple nations and companies, that's a problem with the aircraft. If overriding the safety feature is the safest way to fly the aircraft, that's a stupidly huge problem with the aircraft. That said, there's a reason why the FAA and it's Canadian equivalent are some of the only countries not banning it. The primary users of the max 8 are: Southwest Airlines American Airlines Air Canada WestJet All of which are based in the US or Canada
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Mar 13, 2019 16:46
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FoolyCharged posted:Depends on how the pilot gets trained. Flying a type of airplane requires getting trained and certified to fly that aircraft. If the process of getting certified and trained on the aircraft doesn't leave pilots prepared to fly the aircraft across multiple nations and companies, that's a problem with the aircraft. You posted too close to the sun, friend. We just grounded MAX-8s. Garneau just announced it.
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Mar 13, 2019 17:00
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drat it Canada! you're making a fool of me!
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Mar 13, 2019 17:11
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BrandorKP posted:On the vessel side if I saw an accident created by that type of error I would still characterize it as a failure of the vessel's safety management system (SMS). Yep, fundamentally, people will always make errors, so good systems should try to minimize both the chance of them happening, and the consequences. If a hospital sends the wrong person in for a surgery, it may technically be someone screwing up, but the solution isn't to have people not screw up, it's those little identification bracelets that make it easy to check who the patient actually is.
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Mar 13, 2019 17:26
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HootTheOwl posted:Except you can turn that off. I don't consider "pilot error" the fault of the airplane. We pay pilots a lot of money to know how. So, during the two most dangerous parts of the flight (Takeoff and Landing), you had to diagnose that the airplane was "helpfully" loving with a part of the controls that exists for the sole purpose of "set it and forget it", turn off the power to those control surfaces (not the system that's loving with them, which by the way you could not possibly know about, but the controls themselves), and manually crank the controls back to where they should be, all the while dealing with the fact that your airplane all of a sudden really wants to convert itself into a subway car. There's pilot error and then there's a system designed to create pilot error. HootTheOwl posted:If this latest crash turns out not be "the system the pilot didn't turn off" I'll eat some poo poo. If it turns out that it's a different flaw of the aircraft I'll eat even more poo poo. EDIT: Kobayashi posted:FAA’s emergency order grounding Boeing jets came after the agency identified similarities between crashes in Ethiopia, Indonesia 
Jethro fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 18:17
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I've been reading a bunch of stuff about the 737 max issue and the most interesting details seem to be as follows: 1) Boeing seems to have had a huge incentive to downplay the differences from normal 737s, because otherwise they would have had to go through a lot more effort to get the 737 max approved and pilots would have to get certified separately to fly it. (It sounds like this may be a general industry trend.) 2) Lots of pilots have been surprised/confused by the behavior of the 737 max and complained that it is significantly different from a normal 737, and that they really needed much more training than the 1 hour powerpoint presentation they were given. 3) Apparently if pilots followed all the steps (which they are required to memorize) they are supposed to perform in this situation, they should have successfully disabled the system that was causing the problem. However, it sounds like on normal 737s pilots wouldn't have had to follow the complete procedure in situations like this so maybe they had effectively learned not to do this even if they were supposed to?
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Mar 13, 2019 18:29
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What the gently caress https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/03/13/inenglish/1552464196_279320.html
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Mar 13, 2019 19:20
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mila kunis posted:What the gently caress They wouldn’t be the CIA if they weren’t both huge assholes and also morons. Also that 737 poo poo is straight up malpractice on Boeing’s part.
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Mar 13, 2019 19:40
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Trump just grounded all the planes anyway.
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Mar 13, 2019 19:50
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Jethro posted:The whole point is that Boeing didn't tell pilots about the new system until after the first crash, including in the "here's what's different about the MAX compared to other 737s" and even in the loving flight manual because they didn't want to "confuse" anyone. Agreed. Not to make "a car analogy", but there's a very close comparison between the problems of the 737 MAX automated flight control system and the problems related to vehicular collision avoidance systems identifying stopped objects in the road. False positives could cause serious problems for the drivers so car manufacturers intentionally have the systems ignore halted objects - even though the systems could help in some instances - relying on drivers to recognize and react to impediments without the assistance of autobraking in some instances. The system fails safely. Boeing made the opposite decision, trusting in their system to be correct. But this decision is clearly a poor one, particularly given that air pitch control is far more problematic than a car suddenly braking. With it being clear that ground avoidance systems are not entirely reliable, the flight controls should be alerting the pilots and then deactivating - not possibly making a mistaken pitch adjustment. Perhaps more fundamentally, pilots should never struggle to turn off the collision avoidance system in order to maintain control of the aircraft - indeed it's difficult to argue that planes should be resisting pilot inputs at all.
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Mar 13, 2019 21:28
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CongoJack posted:Trump just grounded all the planes anyway. Trump did something ... good? 
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Mar 13, 2019 21:35
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HootTheOwl posted:If this latest crash turns out not be "the system the pilot didn't turn off" I'll eat some poo poo. If it turns out that it's a different flaw of the aircraft I'll eat even more poo poo. Time to eat poo poo. FAA’s emergency order grounding Boeing jets came after the agency identified similarities between crashes in Ethiopia, Indonesia
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Mar 13, 2019 21:36
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Apparently Southwest uses a lot of 737 maxes and after the news about the first crash they had special indicators added to the HUD to show problems with the angle of attack system and also did additional training for their pilots. This was pretty smart of them and Boeing probably should have added something this to all the planes. https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/southwest-airlines-is-adding-new-angle-of-attack-indicators-to-its-737-max-fleet/ There's no way to get around the fact that even if pilot error is partially to blame, the first crash pretty clearly showed that some sort of additional measures were called for. mystes fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 21:38
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Kobayashi posted:Time to eat poo poo. Why? This is literally the situation where I said I wouldn't. The one where it was exactly as the last crash because they didn't turn the thing off.
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Mar 13, 2019 21:40
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Just for perspective, Southwest is the US carrier with the largest 737 Max 8 fleet, at 34 planes. That's not a lot of planes. And according to this article the Max 8s make 160 of Southwest's 4000 daily flights. Don't quote me on this, but I think most of Southwest's planes are variants of the 737 from the 737-600 to the 737-800. This article goes into some more detail about the Max 8 fleet and the angle of attack error. Edited to add in news! Well, it's not really something we're only finding out about now. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/inside-100-million-police-traffic-stops-new-evidence-racial-bias-n980556 Rodenthar Drothman fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 01:23
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mystes posted:Apparently Southwest uses a lot of 737 maxes and after the news about the first crash they had special indicators added to the HUD to show problems with the angle of attack system and also did additional training for their pilots. This was pretty smart of them and Boeing probably should have added something this to all the planes. Hmm... Boeing is going to get hammered. quote:Garneau said the new information reviewed Wednesday is satellite tracking data that is collected when an aircraft takes off. He said the data provides an indication of the plane’s course and its vertical profile.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:48
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Good news. https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/1105991807282962433
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Mar 14, 2019 01:55
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Florida man is stepping up https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1105994804989755395
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Mar 14, 2019 02:01
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Charlz Guybon posted:How is Don jr. so fantastically stupid? It boggles the mind, especially since he isn't a senile old man riddled with dementia like his dad. Everyone gets this wrong about Trump. It isn't his age. He was ALWAYS breathtakingly stupid, he's always spoken in that idiotic gabbling babble, he's always made up everything he's been talking about right on the spot. Look at any unscripted video of him earlier in life and you can see he's maybe a little slower, maybe he fucks up a word a little more often, but it's the same speed freak stupid ramble. Don Jr is pretty dumb, to be sure, but it's not like his dad wasn't a pants on head moron when he was younger.
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Mar 14, 2019 02:40
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BrandorKP posted:Pay careful attention to the banks language here. Particularly the distinction between "Owner" and "Operator" in a lot of transportation (and pipelines are) things don't work like one would normally expect with regards to liabilities. One would need to dig into the CFRs to get the specfics for different modes. If Wells Fargo loans me money to buy a car they are not liable if i run someone over with it.
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Mar 14, 2019 04:42
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SimonCat posted:If Wells Fargo loans me money to buy a car they are not liable if i run someone over with it. Because they own the loan and not the car? You would be both owner and operator in that circumstance dingus. And your car is not a pipeline, ship, or railroad and it often works differently for those things.
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Mar 14, 2019 04:50
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BrandorKP posted:Because they own the loan and not the car? They hold the title until the loan is paid, making them the owner.
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Mar 14, 2019 04:53
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Wow! Good on NYC! https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/cash-n-y-feds-tests-100k-rape-kits-leads-1k-n982186 quote:
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Mar 14, 2019 05:05
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SimonCat posted:They hold the title until the loan is paid, making them the owner. Yeah but you're still on the registration with the state. Let's look at itb this way let's say you have an oil tanker. A bank owns the vessel. A Greek vessel management company operates the vessel. A Filipino crewing company provides the employees that physically work on the ship. A charter time charters the vessel for a cargo. A country administers an interpretation of SOLAS as the vessels flag state. A classification society issues certificates for the vessels equipment and SMS. It runs aground an investigation finds that the third mate made a navigational error and failed to notify the captain when it was identified. However the error and the failure to notify the captain occurred due to a falty procedure in the vessels SMS. The SMS was created by the operator, approved by the class and accepted by the flag. Who gets sued and where does the liability for the accident lie? One has to turn to a list of international treaties and national regulations to answer that question. Pipelines (and airline) accidents are similarly complicated in a way that is very different from a passenger vehicle.
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Mar 14, 2019 05:11
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SimonCat posted:They hold the title until the loan is paid, making them the owner. This is completely wrong. Having a lien / secured interest does not make them the owner, even if they have possession of the title.
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Mar 14, 2019 05:53
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Head of the Gambinos was just shot in front of his home in NYC, weird time for that to heat up
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Mar 14, 2019 09:36
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Charlz Guybon posted:Wow! Good on NYC! Yikes. Remind me to never get raped because even if I literally hand police the evidence needed to get the person who did it dead to rights, they might just sit on it until the statute of limitations passes.
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Mar 14, 2019 10:55
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FoolyCharged posted:Remind me to never get raped Don't get raped!
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Mar 14, 2019 11:55
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Don't get raped!
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Mar 14, 2019 12:07
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FoolyCharged posted:Yikes. Remind me to never get raped Always sound advice.
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Mar 14, 2019 12:14
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Former Indiana Sen. Birch Bayh has died. He put more ink on the Constitution than anyone in living memory, lowering the voting age to 18 and defining the process of presidential succession. He also attempted abolish the Electoral College and was a key player in developing the stalled Equal Rights Amendment. Despite those failures, Bayh was also the "Father of Title IX" and was instrumental in pushing that through before the dark cloud of conservatism descended on the country. Shame we never got to see him campaign for Buttigieg. https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2019/03/14/birch-bayh-death-obituary-indiana-senator-25-amendment-title-ix-bayh-dole-act/3160005002/
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Mar 14, 2019 15:23
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Charlz Guybon posted:Florida man is stepping up I grew up in New Port Richey, lol. That place is exactly as you'd think it is after reading these stories. The "mayor" is just some schmuck because everyone is too busy doing opiates to vote. Pasco county's only industry is having full nude strip clubs that also serve liquor (something you can't get in Tampa proper). AMA about Pasco County.
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Mar 14, 2019 16:05
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When is the next election and how do I announce my campaign
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Mar 14, 2019 16:42
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Head of the Gambinos was just shot in front of his home in NYC, weird time for that to heat up The most curious thing about it to me is that the mafia runs so openly "See that little house on that little suburban neighborhood? That is where the head of the Mafia lives." This apparently happened on the same day as the head of another New York City crime family was acquitted. It seems odd that while there has been hysteria against MS-13 from certain quarters, the Italian mafia are almost treated like a normal part of life in NYC. And yes, I know the easy answer is "xenophobia", but its not that easy of an answer, since in other circumstances, Italians could be seen as a foreign group.
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Mar 14, 2019 17:10
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The Connecticut Supreme Court ruled that Remington could be held liable for Sandy Hook https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1106220570046328833?s=19
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Mar 14, 2019 17:12
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glowing-fish posted:The most curious thing about it to me is that the mafia runs so openly "See that little house on that little suburban neighborhood? That is where the head of the Mafia lives." It's because we've had several decades to get used to them, I guess. Italians gradually "became white" and the Mafia were gradually glamorized by pop culture. Meanwhile there was an actual crackdown on the Mafia, to the point where it's easy to see why some people would assume they've disbanded completely by now.
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Mar 14, 2019 17:35
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VikingofRock posted:The Connecticut Supreme Court ruled that Remington could be held liable for Sandy Hook Maybe sort of. All but one part of the plantiffs' suit was dismissed and all that they still have going is saying that Remington did misleading and dangerous marketing.
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Mar 14, 2019 19:41
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Request: There was a twitter thread a day or two ago from a girl who used to write college entrance papers and other types of papers for wealthy clients (helping them cheat). She then goes on to talk about the advantages of going to these prestigious universities (even after graduating) and how she was STILL helping them write papers for things like charity boards and what not. Her first tweet in the thread was something like "to my current clients I am no longer doing this kind of work and I'm not proud I ever did it." I meant to bookmark the tweet thread because it was really good but I somehow lost the link and my Google-Fu is weak. 
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Mar 14, 2019 20:11
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glowing-fish posted:The most curious thing about it to me is that the mafia runs so openly "See that little house on that little suburban neighborhood? That is where the head of the Mafia lives." Italians have been in NYC since day 1 and are a yuge part of NYC's culture And the RICO act really did do a number on most of the mobs traditional rackets
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Mar 14, 2019 21:37
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Xarthor posted:Request: I mean, considering that it's part of an active legal case and major national scandal right now, that tweet was probably deleted.
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