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Samuringa posted:Yea, that all sounds terrible, I'll just pass on this altogether. 
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Mar 17, 2019 17:42
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Samuringa posted:Yea, that all sounds terrible, I'll just pass on this altogether. Better you find out now but yes, all of the Jobs actually require you to be actively engaged.
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Mar 17, 2019 17:45
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Samuringa posted:Yea, that all sounds terrible, I'll just pass on this altogether. later maybe a zachtronics game would be more up your alley
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Mar 17, 2019 17:47
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I mean poo poo, Red Mage is the easiest DPS job in the game and that still requires you to be hitting 16 different buttons on the regular and is absolutely completely incompatible with macro-ing because of how proc dependent it is. Does that make it super difficult to play? No, but ya still gotta pay attention. Red Mage is very chill.
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Mar 17, 2019 17:53
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My favorite bad macro story is the guy who came in here to say he’d macroed all of the flank-hitting skills on monk to one button and all of the rear ones on another. He only had to move once, it made it so much easier!
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Mar 17, 2019 17:57
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I'm only in my fifties with a couple classes and on each one I'm almost already out of my standard hotkey setup that I've used since the early days of world of warcraft. I really like it. It makes me feel really accomplished and satisified to learn my job and keep improving and keeps them all unique and interesting. One of my biggest complaints about most modern MMOs is the 'limited action bar' setup that they all seem to want to switch to.
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Mar 17, 2019 18:00
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I do wish macros were a little bit more useful. I like to macro certain party-wide buffs with a /p message just so people know they have Refresh or Battle Voice or Palisades or whatever, but it makes the timing feel so gooey.Samuringa posted:Yea, that all sounds terrible, I'll just pass on this altogether. That's your prerogative of course but I think some of the above posters are making things sound more hectic than they are-- the learning curve is actually pretty gentle imo. A college friend of mine recently started playing and had the same fairly intuitive idea that you had about macroing attack spells, and was very surprised to find how little she missed them when she stopped using them. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 18:01
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The secret to lazy macroing would be to put it on your gaming mouse or keyboard so that the game actually queues the stuff up right. This could probably work okay for non-caster non-proc classes, maybe even Bard as well since it could mash the Refulgent Arrow button and then mash Straight a little while after in case Refulgent isn't up. I don't know how well that'd work though.
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Mar 17, 2019 18:05
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I guess it needs to be said that this isn’t a cookie clicker game?
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Mar 17, 2019 18:07
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Samuringa posted:Yea, that all sounds terrible, I'll just pass on this altogether. It really just boils down to that you're going to have a much easier time playing this game if you just use your abilities from the toolbar and gradually learn the job, rather than trying to figure out how to wrangle the bare-bones macro system into playing for you, then reaching a point where you can't do that any more and having to completely learn your job from scratch. People aren't telling you not to use macros for reasons of elitism or gatekeeping. They're telling you not to use macros because they're unreliable and inflexible, and you're paradoxically making things harder for yourself by trying to make it easier. The Chairman fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 18:23
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    I had no idea you could /doze in some spots to lay down.
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Mar 17, 2019 18:55
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Samuringa posted:I still haven't done any grouping stuff but as a new Arcanist I just fiddled around and made a Macro that queues all my attack spells on a single target and another that does the same but with /bt Arcanist/Summoner eventually gets an ability that spreads their DoTs from one target to all other nearby ones, and another ability that applies the DoTs with a single cast. So using the clunky macro system to do that kind of thing is doubly a bad idea.
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Mar 17, 2019 19:03
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And with class balance coming up, and the removal of TP, there is a very good chance that what you're macroing will all be wrong overnight anyway. Wonder if they would even dare gently caress with the GCD time. Scary.
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Mar 17, 2019 19:25
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An important thing to keep in mind about FFXIV is that, despite being yet another fantasy MMO, is that it's actually a very different game in practice and only has superficial similarities to WoW and other games inspired by it. The design philosophy for WoW at least for the past half dozen expansions or so is to be a relatively active and mobile game with a short GCD and relatively simple 4-6 button rotations and boss fights that tend to be more chaotic, and it's been pared down to the point where most classes don't even have oGCD abilities anymore. FFXIV on the other hand is a lot slower and more methodical, classes generally have an 8-10 button core rotation and a lot of oGCDs to weave in, but the global cooldown is a lot longer and boss fights tend to focus a lot more on positioning and memorization to the point where you can know what's coming next just by what point you are in your rotations. There's lots of other core design differences too, like how everything meaningful in WoW happens in the current expansion at the level cap and you get your primary rotation very early in the leveling process, while the leveling experience in FFXIV is a lot more drawn out but it eases you into the total rotations, focuses heavier on a consistent story arc, and old content remains perpetually relevant. Or how transmogs were grudgingly added to WoW and have a lot of strange restrictions, while glamour costume options are a primary reward mechanic in FFXIV. I personally prefer FFXIV's method these days, but I'm not going to say one is inherently better than the other. But if you're coming into the game expecting it to be like a lot of other MMOs you're going to have a bad time, and mistaken expectations a big reason why I initially bounced off the game the first time I tried it back in ARR. 
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Mar 17, 2019 20:28
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Givin posted:And with class balance coming up, and the removal of TP, there is a very good chance that what you're macroing will all be wrong overnight anyway. Like no joke, I usually trust the devs on fixing jobs after the blunder that was 4.0 SMN to being great now, but I will admit that removing TP does make me wonder how that will work. TP for a lot of Jobs is "lol who cares" but for some of the Melee jobs, it really does depend on it, and a few like Bard activally use both MP and TP, and I wonder how it could (will) be changed. Will AST's The Spire be completely removed from the game, or changed to something else? Some Role Actions actually are really useful for saving gently caress-ups or preventing them. Provoke, Lucid Dreaming, Diversion to name a few. Not all are Break or Drain, so I wonder if those role actions will be lumped into every (relevant) job, or snipped out alltogether. Rampart's saved my rear end more than once during a low-level dungeon when the healer DC's.
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Mar 17, 2019 22:52
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Samuringa posted:Yea, that all sounds terrible, I'll just pass on this altogether. we should hook this guy up with the psycho class player. fewer buttons to press
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Mar 17, 2019 23:02
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With regard to TP removal, you've got rotations and alternate resources like GL stacks, Heat, etc. that will penalize you way harder than "oops no TP" will. TP itself has become a nuisance at best, and is so heavily mitigated by various skills that killing the resource just represents an easy way to get rid of a half dozen skills to make room for cool new expansion toys. I fully expect the dev team to emphasize the class bar resources as a TP replacement for the purely physical classes. Heck, most mages could stand to lose both TP *and* MP if they switched spells like Raise to a cooldown instead of an MP using ability. They won't do it because flavor, but Aetherflow is effectively Summoner's cool spell MP, Astral/Umbral could be BLM's MP with a few changes (ice charges your aether, fire consumes it), RDM has the white and black meters, etc.. You're the Warrior of Light, a literal primal entity that sees through time, draws power from the cosmos and kills gods. Do you really need a TP bar? Or an MP bar? Varance fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 23:05
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MP plays a pretty big role in overall game balance so, yeah, we probably do need an MP bar. TP is extraneous, which is why it is being removed.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:14
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Rastan Beeza posted:Like no joke, I usually trust the devs on fixing jobs after the blunder that was 4.0 SMN to being great now, but I will admit that removing TP does make me wonder how that will work. I could see Foe's Requiem getting turned into something like a 30s gcd buff with a 60s cooldown, but you can refresh it with a 3 stack pitch perfect or something.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:15
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As a WAR main, the only thing that TP actually limits is my ability to spam overpower during wall pulls. Otherwise it's a non-issue resource that I basically don't pay attention to.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:22
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Captain Oblivious posted:MP plays a pretty big role in overall game balance so, yeah, we probably do need an MP bar. There are other ways to balance game mechanics. Class resources are the prime example. Cooldowns. Penalties for over-use. Bonuses from procs, rotation or using a variety of abilities. All classes have these already. Why do you need a second or third layer to reinforce the fact that bad players are bad at mechanics and will have bad HPS/DPS/fail to pop tank cooldowns/die in the sauce? Varance fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 23:25
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It wouldn't surprise me if they just swapped TP costs for equivalent percentage MP costs for all classes. Pretty much every class that uses it already has their MP costs calculated as %'s of their total bar and that serves as the same limit that TP currently does. Tactician goes the way of the Fracture, Invigorate gets changed to restore 40% of your personal MP and Goad gets changed to a refresh effect. Probably throw in some fiddling with Max MP numbers too. The only wrinkle in all of this is what they're going to change to Darkside. Although it would be neat if every non-AoE GCD became free and they just implemented the above for AoE abilities, since that's the only time TP really serves as a limit these days  Edit: Varance posted:Why do you need a second or third layer to reinforce the fact that bad players are bad at mechanics and will have bad HPS/DPS/fail to pop tank cooldowns/die in the sauce? It's a sandbagging deterrent that's not tied to boss mechanics. It's specifically for those edge case scenarios between 'you have the player skill and stats to do this' and 'you don't have the player skill or stats to do this.' IE: you manage to pass the phase transition dps/healing/tank lb check but the boss kicks your butt with it's normal rotation, but not quite hard enough to where you can't keep the fight going until your MP for Raise runs out. It's another way fights can end without resorting to hard time limit enrages (which AFAIK hasn't been a thing out of savage since Stormblood started.) EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 23:35
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All TP does right now is encourage new melee to never AOE, since they try, run out, and the enemies aren't dead because its low level and they're under geared so they fumble around awkwardly at zero TP and learn the wrong lesson.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:43
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Rastan Beeza posted:TP for a lot of Jobs is "lol who cares" but for some of the Melee jobs, it really does depend on it What melee jobs care about TP outside of AOE situations? Excluding deaths and AOE I don't think I've run out of TP on a melee since 2.x. Occasionally I get down to ~200 and hit Invigorate, but that is the entirety of worrying about TP.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:50
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Jose Valasquez posted:Occasionally I get down to ~200 and hit Invigorate, but that is the entirety of worrying about TP. Throw an Enhanced Arrow (preferably extended/more than one of them) on a Monk/Ninja and watch them starve themselves with their normal single target rotation.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:51
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When I do AoE rotation as SAM I often find myself pretty low on TP.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:53
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Zandar posted:I'm guessing you were outside the FATE circle when Ovni died. They changed it so you have to be in the circle to get the buff to prevent people all leaving the FATE two minutes early to grab portals, which often led to the FATE failing (especially if everyone with Dispel left). I was a tank so I was right next to Ovni when they died, but I was close to the edge of the FATE circle, so that was probably it. Either way, managed to sneak in after the support FATE so I still got what I wanted.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:01
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EponymousMrYar posted:Throw an Enhanced Arrow (preferably extended/more than one of them) on a Monk/Ninja and watch them starve themselves with their normal single target rotation. My Sam is fast enough that I can starve myself on a single target rotation if the fight has enough uptime. Enhanced Arrow speeds up the process though. Dumping my AoEs on dungeon trash will run me out super quick and I try to comm an co-dps who does their job well enough that everything is dead before then.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:16
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Jose Valasquez posted:What melee jobs care about TP outside of AOE situations? Samurais. Skill speed is good to them and even without arrow I can get my gcd down under 2 seconds. However all of samurai's basic combos are 10-20 tp more than a ninja's. 3 hit nin combo is 50 > 50 > 40 no matter the ender, while Sam is 60 > 60 > 50 for the 3 hits and 60 > 50 for the 2 hit combo.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:36
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Asimo posted:An important thing to keep in mind about FFXIV is that, despite being yet another fantasy MMO, is that it's actually a very different game in practice and only has superficial similarities to WoW and other games inspired by it. The design philosophy for WoW at least for the past half dozen expansions or so is to be a relatively active and mobile game with a short GCD and relatively simple 4-6 button rotations and boss fights that tend to be more chaotic, and it's been pared down to the point where most classes don't even have oGCD abilities anymore. FFXIV on the other hand is a lot slower and more methodical, classes generally have an 8-10 button core rotation and a lot of oGCDs to weave in, but the global cooldown is a lot longer and boss fights tend to focus a lot more on positioning and memorization to the point where you can know what's coming next just by what point you are in your rotations. There's lots of other core design differences too, like how everything meaningful in WoW happens in the current expansion at the level cap and you get your primary rotation very early in the leveling process, while the leveling experience in FFXIV is a lot more drawn out but it eases you into the total rotations, focuses heavier on a consistent story arc, and old content remains perpetually relevant. Or how transmogs were grudgingly added to WoW and have a lot of strange restrictions, while glamour costume options are a primary reward mechanic in FFXIV. Yeah, I generally prefer almost everything about FFXIV, but if I'm being completely honest I kinda prefer WoW's approach to actual skill use. It feels a lot more...flexible, for lack of a better description. I feel like FFXIV could never really figure out how to incorporate things like crowd control, interrupts, etc into the combat without loving up the balance. I prefer the way FFXIV does actual fight mechanics, though. My ~ideal MMO~ would probably be something with FFXIV's writing/setting, visual aesthetic, and highly "choreographed" fights (in the sense of having a high focus on positioning that punishes you heavily for not "learning the fight"), but WoW's flexible rotations and large variety of neat quest activities where you can do all sorts of interesting things.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:47
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Ytlaya posted:Yeah, I generally prefer almost everything about FFXIV, but if I'm being completely honest I kinda prefer WoW's approach to actual skill use. It feels a lot more...flexible, for lack of a better description. I feel like FFXIV could never really figure out how to incorporate things like crowd control, interrupts, etc into the combat without loving up the balance. I prefer the way FFXIV does actual fight mechanics, though. The "flexible" skill uses and cc/interrupts/etc is mostly confined to Masked Carnivale and Eureka. They are incorporating that style of gameplay, just in a way that doesn't interrupt the highly structured content.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:58
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Removing MP altogether would completely break BLM, there would be 0 need to ever cast a single Blizzard spell. Could probably be reworked as an overheat mechanic or something quite easily though.
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Mar 18, 2019 01:16
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It's much more likely that MP will remain and anything that uses TP now will use MP instead (or whatever they rename MP to), with every TP-using ability having its cost re-balanced somehow. Alternately, anything that isn't magic can just be used freely forever! But I don't count on the devs to go that route.
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Mar 18, 2019 01:25
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More importantly MP exists as a healer limiter and a penalty for death. It's a failure condition. Having those is not a bad thing.
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Mar 18, 2019 01:25
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Yeah I hope they literally just remove TP from that game, not make abilities MP-based or whatever. TP only really exists to hinder area attacks in the end, and if there's anything we actually need more of in the game, it's more area attacks for group pulls. I'm very glad they lowered the TP requirement for Ninja's Death Blossom a few updates ago. Since then I haven't had any real issues with TP in the game. Along with that, we'll be able to completely remove Goad and Invigorate. Otherwise, Goad could be used as a soft refresh I guess, but it doesn't matter to me. I just hope they go with my hopes to remove TP.
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Mar 18, 2019 03:58
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Goad is nice because it let's me instantly know who actually knows how to play. It's me. I'm the only one.
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Mar 18, 2019 04:29
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Poops Mcgoots posted:Goad is nice because it let's me instantly know who actually knows how to play. and yugiri
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Mar 18, 2019 04:30
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Samuringa posted:Yea, that all sounds terrible, I'll just pass on this altogether. incredible
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Mar 18, 2019 04:32
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Poops Mcgoots posted:Goad is nice because it let's me instantly know who actually knows how to play. lol I like you 
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Mar 18, 2019 05:01
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 And yes, Im going to finish this off and level desynth
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Mar 18, 2019 05:21
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