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Clarste posted:I mean undercutting is the market at work. Not undercutting means the market is broken. Supply and demand, baby! This, a thousand times. They undercut by a gil, you slash a hundred thousand.
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Mar 20, 2019 14:27
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undercutting helps reveal the contradictions inherent in internet video game capitalism and is your solemn duty
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Mar 20, 2019 14:36
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It probably doesn't help that FF14 has the worst market board implementation in all of video games. A 2000s era KMMO wherein the market was dictated by literal stalls in town would present less insane economic trends than FF14 does.
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Mar 20, 2019 14:39
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IcePhoenix posted:I am only talking about the Ixal quests there, my dude. Yeah except the thing they described also applies to the higher tier Ixal dailies, after it happened to me a few times I stopped doing them (I also stopped doing the mining/botany dailies because they suck).
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Mar 20, 2019 14:49
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Trasson posted:This, a thousand times. They undercut by a gil, you slash a hundred thousand. I mean the idea is supposed to be that prices creep down toward some reasonable floor. In practice though people stupidly just race toward the bottom and try to crater the price well below what it's worth, or even below vendor price for some ungodly reason. The market is just full of people thinking "well if I sell it at one gil no one will be able to undercut me!"
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Mar 20, 2019 14:51
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orcane posted:Yeah except the thing they described also applies to the higher tier Ixal dailies, after it happened to me a few times I stopped doing them (I also stopped doing the mining/botany dailies because they suck). Weird, I don't think it's ever taken me more than like 10 casts. Maybe 15 at most. It goes much faster if you only hook the fish you need, as well. The quest fish have a strong tug and the non-quest fish have a light tug so you can just let the light tugs get away and not go through the catching animation.
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Mar 20, 2019 15:01
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Glagha posted:for some ungodly reason. Spite.
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Mar 20, 2019 15:07
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I got this materia for free just by hanging out with my pals Orphan Lady and Other Orphan Lady, so 5k is really asking too much if you think about it.
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Mar 20, 2019 15:09
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Glagha posted:In practice though people stupidly just race toward the bottom and try to crater the price well below what it's worth, or even below vendor price for some ungodly reason. Look, after spending a couple days watching my stuff get undercut by a single gil within minutes of undercutting them back, I'm frustrated enough to just lop off 10-15% of the price in the hopes that the drat thing just sells already.
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Mar 20, 2019 15:17
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Rainuwastaken posted:Look, after spending a couple days watching my stuff get undercut by a single gil within minutes of undercutting them back, I'm frustrated enough to just lop off 10-15% of the price in the hopes that the drat thing just sells already. plus if they choose to undercut you again then they lose that 10-15% as well I usually lop off way more than a gil because most of the time I want to just sell my stuff and clear inventory space
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Mar 20, 2019 15:28
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Something is only really worth what people are willing to pay for it so I tend to compare my prices to the item history and bench them around whatever people recently paid.
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Mar 20, 2019 15:31
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Emalde posted:It probably doesn't help that FF14 has the worst market board implementation in all of video games. A 2000s era KMMO wherein the market was dictated by literal stalls in town would present less insane economic trends than FF14 does. While I agree its not great, its far faaar away from the worst, oh boy the poo poo I've seen. And at least FFXIV's market board is fully useable without 3rd party addons.
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Mar 20, 2019 15:38
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I had never really understood how the MB worked until I saw people go from selling Conditional Virtue at 8 mil to 5 mil over the course of 2 or 3 days. That was hurtful. On the bright side, I learned that gpose itself has additional camera zoom. One day I will deliver you all a good picture, just you wait.
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Mar 20, 2019 15:40
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Im kind of glad ff14 doesn't let you set buy orders on things because I'd spend way more gil on stupid poo poo if it did
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Mar 20, 2019 15:41
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Rainuwastaken posted:Look, after spending a couple days watching my stuff get undercut by a single gil within minutes of undercutting them back, I'm frustrated enough to just lop off 10-15% of the price in the hopes that the drat thing just sells already. This is why selling high end gear is something I don’t particularly enjoy (or do). I stockpile materials and intermediate crafts (ingots, thread, etc) and sell those. You don’t have the 500k gil payday, but it’s way easier to sell 20 stacks of 25 of something than babysit the market board for a week hoping that I’m the lowest price when someone is buying gear. On the other side, I did crash the i380 caster shoes a few weekends ago from 700k to sub-250k and sold the shoes I crafted on the way back up at 350k. So in conclusion, the market board is a land of contrasts.
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Mar 20, 2019 15:55
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Phone posted:This is why selling high end gear is something I don’t particularly enjoy (or do). I stockpile materials and intermediate crafts (ingots, thread, etc) and sell those. You don’t have the 500k gil payday, but it’s way easier to sell 20 stacks of 25 of something than babysit the market board for a week hoping that I’m the lowest price when someone is buying gear. I've always found (at least on omega) the intermediate market is much more cutthroat, due to more people
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Mar 20, 2019 16:20
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Glagha posted:I mean the idea is supposed to be that prices creep down toward some reasonable floor. In practice though people stupidly just race toward the bottom and try to crater the price well below what it's worth, or even below vendor price for some ungodly reason. The market is just full of people thinking "well if I sell it at one gil no one will be able to undercut me!" The people who literally have no concept of profit I can't say anything about, but for the rest, the answer is simple. Unlike real life, there is very little cost to switching markets. Leveling all eleven DoH/Ls is easy, so there's no sense of "well I could sell all of these swords at just above cost but if I do then the sword market crashes and it'll be impossible to make further profit on my swords" because you just go "well I could sell all of these swords at just above cost and then go sew some dresses". Put another way, there is no benefit to me, the supplier, to do anything other than try to get as much money as I'm happy with out of the deal. Just to pull a complete hypothetical that definitely didn't occur if I were to spend an entire weekend watching Youtube LPs and gathering the materials for dozens of pieces of level 50 caster gear to sell at heavily-undercut-but-still-inflated prices to fresh Blue Mage idiots and constantly undercut each competitor by 10, 20, even 40%, then yeah by the end of that weekend level 50 caster gear is going to have tanked in price be worth maybe 50% of its prior glory at best. But what do I care? I made my money, and I can move on to greener pastures. That Blue Mage gear was no longer worth the money to make a week later is irrelevant to me, and it shouldn't be: it's not my responsibility to ensure a stable market. The other factor is shelf space. Every character is limited to between 40 and 160 slots to sell items in. As such, to make money, you want items to be moving from inventory to sale space as fast as possible, and from sale space to the customer as fast as possible. On fast moving items needed in bulk (i.e. crafting materials) you can often be satisfied sitting nowhere near the cheapest price tag on the (usually correct) assumption that the items are selling faster than supply can keep up, and so you'll get your turn sooner rather than later. But when it comes to higher priced premium items -- top end gear, primal weapons, niche glamour pieces, etc. -- you can have days, a week, or even more between sales of that item. At that point, if you want to actually sell, you have to be the cheapest when someone comes calling. The only way to be that is to do one of two things: either you adjust prices constantly to stay on top of the game, even by one gil, or you price so low that the profit loss becomes untenable to your competitors and makes them flinch for hopefully long enough that you're first on the list when a buyer clicks on the item. Since a great deal of people have a life outside of FF14 (citation needed) the first option is out of the question, and so people resort to the second. Stormgale posted:I've always found (at least on omega) the intermediate market is much more cutthroat, due to more people This relates to my point above. It's more cutthroat but there's also more demand. Like even now, in the pre-expansion lull, the high end intermediates (Silvergrace tier stuff for crafters/gatherers, Evergleam tier for combat) are going to have the greatest demand of anything worth a price tag. Everyone who's looking to make a quick buck knows that, and so you're going to have a lot of supply and people trying to undercut each other. Here's the thing though: as long as those people are undercutting their existing stock as opposed to listing more at a cheaper price, the supply hasn't changed. If your stack of ten ingots was the fifth cheapest listing when you were ten gil above the competition, you're still the fifth cheapest if you're ten thousand. Plus, with intermediate materials, there's two axes you can attack: you can be the cheapest absolutely, or you can be the cheapest per item. You can also aim for price/quantity ratios that haven't been hit: if everyone is selling ten ingots a pop for 60,000 each, you might be able to score some great sales at selling five listings of individual ingots at 70,000 a pop. All of these combine to make a market with much more availability. Yes, it seems more cutthroat because bulk lots and individual lots are competing on the same table, and there are more people because of this, but there's also far more opportunity to be had. Rosalie_A fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Mar 20, 2019 |
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Mar 20, 2019 16:20
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Stormgale posted:I've always found (at least on omega) the intermediate market is much more cutthroat, due to more people But there are way more markets to be in (and pull out of). When things get too crowded, you can move to an underserved market and set up shop there for a while. There also tends to be completely desolate markets that you can take control over; for a few weeks I was the only game in town for Jade Peas (level 15 BTN node?) and probably made close to 300k moving peas. Do this in a handful of areas, and it’s possible to make ~2.5 milllion/week with minimal time and effort janitoring your retainers. The patch lulls also exacerbate fluctuations, but it’s possible to thread the needle and make money in the chaos.
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Mar 20, 2019 16:32
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For me it's mostly effort, I feel due to the constant supply/demand I have to shift more goods and make more alterations to prices for intermediaries for similar profit, vs the higher end stuff (while it was in demand) which I can modify once/twice a day and just rotate stock as they sell to hit whatever is a good margin?
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Mar 20, 2019 16:32
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undercutting by 1 gil is cool and good undercutting by crazy amounts is annoying and bad be cool and good
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Mar 20, 2019 16:38
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Undercut constantly, never stop
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Mar 20, 2019 16:43
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I price everything at 1 gil under what npcs sell it for If I run them out of business I can take over
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Mar 20, 2019 16:44
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All of you goons posting bad market advice should have to post your gil.
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Mar 20, 2019 16:59
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Do whatever you want. Make a hundred gil or a thousand, whatever clears out the inventory.
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Mar 20, 2019 17:01
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Bleu posted:All of you goons posting bad market advice should have to post your gil. kill the rich
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Mar 20, 2019 17:02
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IcePhoenix posted:kill the rich this is horrible such a waste if you don't eat them afterward
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Mar 20, 2019 17:04
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Bleu posted:All of you goons posting bad market advice should have to post your gil. Twelve and a half gil, send pineapple pudding please I'm so hungry
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Mar 20, 2019 17:07
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We are rich with inventory space.
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Mar 20, 2019 17:39
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Bleu posted:All of you goons posting bad market advice should have to post your gil. am i posting bad advice? Pls advise.
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Mar 20, 2019 17:44
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About 60% of my inventory is full of dyes so having nothing in my inventory is important to me.
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Mar 20, 2019 17:52
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I really need to purge my bags of crafting mats.
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Mar 20, 2019 17:58
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Phone posted:am i posting bad advice? Pls advise. you still aint hungry harvey rich
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Mar 20, 2019 18:07
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It doesnt work for finished products, but one of the benefits of severely undercutting intermediate materials is that people become more likely to buy them instead of buying something that costs 20x the cost of materials for something they can just make themselves
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Mar 20, 2019 18:17
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Bolow posted:you still aint hungry harvey rich how rich is harv? I can change this...
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Mar 20, 2019 18:22
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Undercutting by a gil is annoying on a controller so I just lop a few thousand off the price because who cares it's still a 500% profit margin
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Mar 20, 2019 18:32
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i just want someone to buy my glazenuts please
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Mar 20, 2019 18:45
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Almost done maxing crafts. Any tips of crafting yellow scrip farming? Need to get a hold of 120 Kingcraft for the crafting gear, and I already used two weeks of custom deliveries for the gathering gear
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Mar 20, 2019 19:17
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DontMindMe posted:Almost done maxing crafts. Any tips of crafting yellow scrip farming? Need to get a hold of 120 Kingcraft for the crafting gear, and I already used two weeks of custom deliveries for the gathering gear Just wait another two weeks to get the scrips for the crafting gear.
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Mar 20, 2019 19:24
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Another thing to keep in mind with the market is location. If you're buying from a retainer in another city, there's a slight extra fee. Sometimes it's more than the teleport fee to relocate, sometimes it's not. If you're not undercutting but matching someone, it can be the edge you need. Especially if it's convenient for leves or class quests.
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Mar 20, 2019 19:46
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Argas posted:Another thing to keep in mind with the market is location. If you're buying from a retainer in another city, there's a slight extra fee. Sometimes it's more than the teleport fee to relocate, sometimes it's not. If you're not undercutting but matching someone, it can be the edge you need. Especially if it's convenient for leves or class quests. I generally only teleport to another MB if what I'm buying is particularly expensive. Like, I don't mind paying extra to just get the thing from the Ul'Dah board instead of teleporting to Gridania and running through the zone-change to the market board, but if I'm buying high-end gear at hundreds of thousands of gil then I'll definitely eat the teleport (or, typically, the aetheryte ticket). It's also good to note for your own purposes that you can save on fees by switching your retainers to reduced-tax markets. Typically two of the five market zones will be at 3% rather than the usual 5% at any given time. I remember when SB launched, the Kugane markets were at 0% tax for awhile. It's possible this will happen again when SB launches. 
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Mar 20, 2019 20:02
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