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I think the most important thing to keep in mind right now is that no matter what is in the report, the problems in this country run much deeper than whoever is in the White House. Removing Trump would just be treating a symptom. But god drat it would feel good.
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Mar 23, 2019 01:17
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Fister Roboto posted:I think the most important thing to keep in mind right now is that no matter what is in the report, the problems in this country run much deeper than whoever is in the White House. Removing Trump would just be treating a symptom. A non-trivial amount of Democrats just want a nicer Trump. We're probably all hosed.
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Mar 23, 2019 01:18
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pantslesswithwolves posted:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyI2oTznwT0uHYYceVWcJVQ This, I like. Kurt Loadeater posted:gently caress off. I invite the future you to come back and cringe at what a hopeful little human being you were about the Mueller report. If you ever decide to post in this thread again, your first post must either be an apology or a defense of your use of that word.
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Mar 23, 2019 01:27
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The only way I see anything changing is if like, Wikileaks drops a million pages of iron clad evidence...which will never happen.  is still real to me, dammit!
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Mar 23, 2019 01:27
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bulletsponge13 posted:The only way I see anything changing is if like, Wikileaks drops a million pages of iron clad evidence...which will never happen. Uh considering that Wikileaks is literally a front for Russian intelligence I wouldn't be hoping that they suddenly come riding in on a white horse at first dawn on the third day my man.
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Mar 23, 2019 01:33
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Didn't we already know Mueller didn't intend to break with the guidelines about indicting a president? Doesn't the fact there's no more indictments not mean much? The realistic best case scenario I thought we were facing was just putting a bunch of damning evidence in front of Congress for impeachment. So this no indictments thing just doesn't seem to mean much either way to me.
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Mar 23, 2019 01:33
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agreed, i think this will end up being like the night after “wheres the blue wave” on election night in that the impact will be huge in a way that our instant gratification news cycle cant cope with
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Mar 23, 2019 01:43
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There's also the possibility that this is simply the investigation into Russian interference with the 2016 election, rather than a combo of that + obstruction. There's always been rumors that it was being split, but I don't think it was ever confirmed outside of hashtag resistance people. I don't have very high expectations for this.
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Mar 23, 2019 01:47
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Tryzzub posted:agreed, i think this will end up being like the night after “wheres the blue wave” on election night in that the impact will be huge in a way that our instant gratification news cycle cant cope with  it's thishopefully
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Mar 23, 2019 01:47
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FAUXTON posted:This part, especially. Most of the motivation for DSA organizing was strategic positioning for when the public turned hard against trump following a damning mueller report in order to ride that wave. The insanely telling amount of hedging coming from people like Schiff suggests the report falls far short of being damning. With trump being able to now recover in time for campaign season without a drumbeat of leaks and indictments, there's no wave to ride.
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Mar 23, 2019 01:48
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hot sorcery posted:i have no clue what you are talking about here... does dsa stand for something idk? Democratic Socialists of America
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Mar 23, 2019 01:54
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Mar 23, 2019 01:55
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FAUXTON posted:This part, especially. Most of the motivation for DSA organizing was strategic positioning for when the public turned hard against trump following a damning mueller report in order to ride that wave. The insanely telling amount of hedging coming from people like Schiff suggests the report falls far short of being damning. With trump being able to now recover in time for campaign season without a drumbeat of leaks and indictments, there's no wave to ride. I'd be more worried about this if people hadn't been making GBS threads their pants that the Dems would lose in 2018 up to and even after the election results came in. Slow the gently caress down with the doomsaying already.
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Mar 23, 2019 01:59
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yah i know, i just don’t know believe “most of the motivation” for dsa organizing is around trump & riding some sorta mueller wave. like, it is building & mobilizing a movement of people to demand & work towards a better future by doing things like primarying poo poo dems, fighting gentrification, getting cop accountability, helping form unions, canvassing for medicare for all, divesting from fossil fuels, and idk a tonne of other stuff. we have a large contingent of people who aren’t electoral focused, and here in nyc we spend a lot of time fighting democrats because uh capitalism. only time i’ve heard dsa people discuss the mueller report is when they’ve said the dem focus on it is misguided and they’re using russia as a scapegoat for the 2016 campaign.
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Mar 23, 2019 02:04
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The whining from Donnie and Mayor Cousinfucker this week suggests there could be bad stuff in there, but who knows? This week Donnie repeatedly attacked a dead man, announced another stupid Israel policy change, and we found more proof that Jared and Ivanka have been breaking the law with their communications after half the loving campaign was about buttermails. Nothing happened.
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Mar 23, 2019 02:06
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dead man gave the dossier to the fbi
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Mar 23, 2019 02:07
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I kind of decided months ago I don't think the Mueller report matters, in the short term at least. I kind of think that nothing in it is gonna make Turtle and CO sign on with impeachment, at least as long as the president is a rubber stamp on their agenda. Having said that, deep in my heart, I truly believe the only way I could die happy and fulfilled from this garbage fire life, is knowing that Donnie had to watch one or more of his kids perp walk on national TV. Yes, I'm prepared to die a broken bitter man...
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Mar 23, 2019 02:09
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hot sorcery posted:yah i know, i just don’t know believe “most of the motivation” for dsa organizing is around trump & riding some sorta mueller wave. like, it is building & mobilizing a movement of people to demand & work towards a better future by doing things like primarying poo poo dems, fighting gentrification, getting cop accountability, helping form unions, canvassing for medicare for all, divesting from fossil fuels, and idk a tonne of other stuff. we have a large contingent of people who aren’t electoral focused, and here in nyc we spend a lot of time fighting democrats because uh capitalism. only time i’ve heard dsa people discuss the mueller report is when they’ve said the dem focus on it is misguided and they’re using russia as a scapegoat for the 2016 campaign. Socialism, democratic or regular, wasn't spontaneously invented in late 2016 though.
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Mar 23, 2019 02:09
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FAUXTON posted:Socialism, democratic or regular, wasn't spontaneously invented in late 2016 though. Then why did you post that poo poo my dud?
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Mar 23, 2019 02:12
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FAUXTON posted:Socialism, democratic or regular, wasn't spontaneously invented in late 2016 though. you’re gonna need to draw more connections for me so i can see where this statement fits in.
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Mar 23, 2019 02:13
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Mar 23, 2019 02:15
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hot sorcery posted:omg i can’t make sense of anything you post! i was disagreeing with your claim about dsa organizing & mueller/trump. look, I'm not trying to blame "Bernie Bros" for 2016. What I'm saying is that a lot of why people got on board with the DSA afterwards and not, say, 2008, is that people knew how much of a fuckin compromised sack of poo poo trump was and knew this was/is a once in a lifetime opportunity to pull national politics leftward because even centrists and some people just a hair right of center were proper pissed at trump with all the tweets and indictments and corruption stemming from this investigation, which is now over. The electoral organizing from the DSA wasn't happening in 2006 when Bush was staggeringly unpopular, it wasn't happening in 2008 when republicans were staggeringly unpopular and people were actually mobilizing in the streets calling out core issues like wealth inequality and the corruptive effects of capitalism on democracy, it took Trump's unending parade of "holy gently caress, that's a crime" among his campaign leadership, transition team, and cabinet to move people to properly canvass and register people and get voters in the poll both when it counts. That parade ended today unless some real blockbuster poo poo is waiting in the wings either in DC or NY, and it's scary to think of how far things will subside without that motivation driving people against the GOP.
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Mar 23, 2019 02:37
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Mother loving Pepe Sylvia.
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Mar 23, 2019 02:39
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I'm just not looking forward to the chuds braying for the foreseeable future.
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Mar 23, 2019 02:40
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no arguments from me that trump’s election wasn’t a huge factor in dsa membership post 2016, but that wasn’t what you were arguing. you were tying dsa organizing & strategy to the mueller report. idk what you’re basing it on. are you dsa? have you been to meetings? talked to any dsa people? bc you’ll hear a lot about progressive stack and bylaws, and not really anything about trump (and almost nothing about mueller).
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Mar 23, 2019 02:44
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hot sorcery posted:no arguments from me that trump’s election wasn’t a huge factor in dsa membership post 2016, but that wasn’t what you were arguing. you were tying dsa organizing & strategy to the mueller report. idk what you’re basing it on. are you dsa? have you been to meetings? talked to any dsa people? bc you’ll hear a lot about progressive stack and bylaws, and not really anything about trump (and almost nothing about mueller). i dont know much about bylaws, but i am well versed in bird law
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Mar 23, 2019 02:48
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hot sorcery posted:no arguments from me that trump’s election wasn’t a huge factor in dsa membership post 2016, but that wasn’t what you were arguing. you were tying dsa organizing & strategy to the mueller report. idk what you’re basing it on. are you dsa? have you been to meetings? talked to any dsa people? bc you’ll hear a lot about progressive stack and bylaws, and not really anything about trump (and almost nothing about mueller). strategic positioning isn't the same as using the hope for Mueller as an outreach method. How early was 2018 seen as an opportunity to elect leftist candidates?
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Mar 23, 2019 02:50
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FAUXTON posted:strategic positioning isn't the same as using the hope for Mueller as an outreach method. How early was 2018 seen as an opportunity to elect leftist candidates? you’re gonna have to explain your jump to your last question again - i can’t even guess at the implication there. edit: i am getting no closer to understanding, and i’m sure this is tedious for the rest of the ppl in the thread. pm me if you wanna?
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Mar 23, 2019 02:54
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Can't wait to hear from the RWM that they were always on the side of Mueller the entire time
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Mar 23, 2019 02:55
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hot sorcery posted:you lost me again. are you saying the dsa uses hope for a damning mueller report in outreach?? are there some pantsuit army ppl masquerading as dsa? a hillary stan caucus? I'm saying they're not using it!, how do you keep asking if I mean the exact opposite of what the words in my posts are saying?
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Mar 23, 2019 02:57
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Anything exculpatory will leak very soon and very selectively. Anything bad and they'll fight like hell to not release it. But since doju isn't indicted, it really can't be that bad.
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Mar 23, 2019 02:57
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FAUXTON posted:strategic positioning isn't the same as using the hope for Mueller as an outreach method. How early was 2018 seen as an opportunity to elect leftist candidates? Before the 2016 election.
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Mar 23, 2019 03:01
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Before the 2016 election. Beyond the "every election" platitude level though. The intensity wasn't there in prior elections. What changed?
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Mar 23, 2019 03:09
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Wait are you telling me the Mueller Report isn’t some Magic Silver Bullet That Will Finally Stop Trump? This is my shocked face:  Go organize in your community and get involved a cop isn’t going to save us.
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Mar 23, 2019 03:09
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FAUXTON posted:I'm saying they're not using it!, how do you keep asking if I mean the exact opposite of what the words in my posts are saying?
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Mar 23, 2019 03:11
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FAUXTON posted:Beyond the "every election" platitude level though. The intensity wasn't there in prior elections. What changed? Trump won.
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Mar 23, 2019 03:12
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...and we'd like to thank our sponsor Christianity, for millions of adults who couldn't think critically if their lives depended on it. This wouldn't be possible without your support...
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Mar 23, 2019 03:17
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hot sorcery posted:in that case i’m telling you it isn’t used in any strategic positioning either? it is irrelevant to the work we do. if anything, it coming out saying Trump Is Bad would just allow lovely dems to ignore their own complicity (if that is a word). no clue how that’d lead to more ppl joining dsa. can you answer my question on where you get your info from? bc it really sounds like you don’t know what you’re talking about. i tried to pm this to you but you don’t have pms. i don’t want to poo poo up this thread. are you on the discord? I have PMs, you might not, I guess? Regardless you're just flailing away at a fake argument I'm not making. Nothing in DSA outreach has to do with Mueller, I specifically said as much. You're coming at me like wave elections don't exist and popular sentiment isn't a thing that drives voters against one party regardless of candidate.
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Mar 23, 2019 03:23
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This time they will get Trump guys. Seriously.
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Mar 23, 2019 03:24
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Trump won. And now he has a golden opportunity to claim vindication while the news plays this as a nothingburger.
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Mar 23, 2019 03:25
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