BSS Movie Thread: Methodical. Layered. Complex, Beautiful and Sad

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TwoPair: Mar 28, 2010; Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta; Grimey Drawer

Lurdiak posted:

I think Disney knows audiences don't want yet another Evil Opposite villain in a Marvel film.

I mean you'd think that, but they keep doing it...

# ? Mar 24, 2019 06:11

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 18:53

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

TwoPair posted:

I mean you'd think that, but they keep doing it...

It's been a bit! E: Whoops forgot about Black Panther.

Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Mar 24, 2019

# ? Mar 24, 2019 06:30

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

sticksy posted:

- I left feeling a bit conflicted about how Billy's mom was portrayed and the choices they'd made, which I'd like to think is the sign of decent writing. Ultimately I was glad he ended up in the right place with people who really cared about him

I found this bit hit really home for me but my biological mother was exactly that person and so she felt a lot more real than I was expecting.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 06:59

Teenage Fansub: Jan 28, 2006

sticksy posted:

- I took my 5-year old son as he'd really enjoyed the trailers and mostly liked Justice League, BvS and WW enough.

I didn't read your spoiler, but I'd be shocked if Shazam! was more adult/inappropriate/crude than BvS.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 07:04

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

You should probably read that spoiler lol

# ? Mar 24, 2019 07:13

BrianWilly: Apr 24, 2007; There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

I just want to say that this is Good

TDKR jumbles its way through a motley of sociopolitical metaphors and is clearly representative of the halcyon days from before white people really had to confront the extent of police corruption and brutality in the country, but to treat it as a soft-neocon, pro-establishment work just jumbles the metaphors even further.

I think part of what causes the impression is that, contrary to general impressions, the movie actually ends up being very supportive of Batman as a symbol and, yes, Batman does ultimately work alongside the establishment to defeat the literal oppressed in the film. The key words here though, is that the movie supports Batman as a symbol. It does not, in any way, support Batman as defined by Bruce Wayne.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 07:32

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

FlamingLiberal posted:

Not sure why they would use him in a Black Widow movie, but ok?

Because He can have the fighting abilities of Captain America, Hawkeye, and whoever else. So, when she defeats him you go �Man, she could defeat half the Avengers with just her wits if she had to.�
Plus, he has his assassin training school you could compare to the red room.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 09:01

bessantj: Jul 27, 2004

Davros1 posted:

The opening monologue is so unintentionally hilarious. You know when the writer came up with the line "A beautiful lie", they sat back in their chair and thought "nailed it".

As others have said I think the writer thought that about his writing a lot. Also Jesse Eisenberg playing Lex with a brain injury.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 10:50

The Question IRL: Jun 8, 2013; Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...

That's some excellent breakdown on the Nolan Batman films.
One point I'd like to add.

Batman Begins ends by quoting one of the more famous Frank Miller lines about unintended consequences of actions. The idea that Batman fundamentally changes the status quo and things aren't ever going to be the same again. ("We start wearing body armour, they start carrying AP bullets.")

Then TDK completely runs with that plot. The Joker is a force of chaos who is going to fight Batman by tearing up the rule book.
Batman is playing defence because unlike the mob he built himself to go after, he's facing a foe who is more flexible in mindset and less predictable.
The Joker hinges his plan on the fact that even if Batman beats him, the bell once rung cannot be un-rung.
Barman (slightly clumisly) tries to say that extreme measures can be taken in emergencies before being put back in their box. (Mass surveillance.)

It all comes to a crux in the Joker's (and sadly Heath Leadger's) last few lines.
The mob who hired the Joker didn't understand him. They thought he'd defeat the Batman and make everything go back to the way it was before. But the Joker understands that there is no going back to the way things were.
Gotham city is going to attract a new breed of criminal, an ongoing circus of evil. All going after Batman. And if Batman isn't there, they will just go after Gotham.
Things will never be normal.

Then the DKR opens with them saying "after passing Draconian laws, Gotham city is normal. No dudes wearing green question Mark's or human ice boxes showed up.
In fact Gotham hasn't seen or needed the Batman in the last seven years."

It just seems like a crazy rejection of the ideas that ran through the first two films.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 11:12

Karloff: Mar 21, 2013

Davros1 posted:

The opening monologue is so unintentionally hilarious. You know when the writer came up with the line "A beautiful lie", they sat back in their chair and thought "nailed it".

I think the funniest part of that monologue is "what falls...is fallen"

# ? Mar 24, 2019 11:41

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

Karloff posted:

I think the funniest part of that monologue is "what falls...is fallen"

# ? Mar 24, 2019 11:54

asecondduck: Feb 18, 2011; by Nyc_Tattoo

Lurdiak posted:

Batman analysis

Okay, that's a good read of the film. Fair enough, I'll admit that I wasn't looking at closely at it as I should have been.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 12:14

teagone: Jun 10, 2003; That was pretty intense, huh?

Batman is pretty emo so his opening monologue in BvS works for me.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 14:28

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

The Question IRL posted:

Batman Begins ends by quoting one of the more famous Frank Miller lines about unintended consequences of actions. The idea that Batman fundamentally changes the status quo and things aren't ever going to be the same again. ("We start wearing body armour, they start carrying AP bullets.")

This is actually a Loeb line from Long Halloween.

quote:

It just seems like a crazy rejection of the ideas that ran through the first two films.

You're misunderstanding the ending of The Dark Knight. The Joker's gambit at the end of the film is that by turning Harvey Dent into a monster, he'll destroy Gotham's hope for normalcy. He thinks that this is check and mate, but he underestimates Batman's capability for self-sacrifice. Batman lets himself be demonized and allows Dent to be the hero. The end of The Dark Knight is him refusing to have the eternal dance between good and evil with the Joker. He stops the Joker's prophecy.

I think the mindset to have with the TDK Trilogy is that they're not films that are meant to be one long planned out story. Each film really ends in a pretty satisfying way. But there's also interestingly self-critical of each other. Batman Begins ends with this fun promise of more Batman Adventures with his classic rogues gallery. The Dark Knight actually explores what that would mean to have a billionaire financing a private way against an urban terrorist/The Devil and ends with Batman allowing himself to be demonized for the greater good. But then the third film is all about the limitations of deception and has Robin become a new Batman, but one who doesn't operate in the shadows.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 14:52

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

The Question IRL posted:

Then the DKR opens with them saying "after passing Draconian laws, Gotham city is normal. No dudes wearing green question Mark's or human ice boxes showed up.
In fact Gotham hasn't seen or needed the Batman in the last seven years."

It just seems like a crazy rejection of the ideas that ran through the first two films.

Isn't the eventual point of the DKR that... nope, it didn't actually fix anything?

# ? Mar 24, 2019 15:17

The Question IRL: Jun 8, 2013; Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...

Timeless Appeal posted:

This is actually a Loeb line from Long Halloween.

I just looked it up. You're right. It's very similar to the ending of Year 1, that I guess I transplanted them in my head. I could have sworn that's where the hit with the playing card comes from.

quote:

You're misunderstanding the ending of The Dark Knight. The Joker's gambit at the end of the film is that by turning Harvey Dent into a monster, he'll destroy Gotham's hope for normalcy. He thinks that this is check and mate, but he underestimates Batman's capability for self-sacrifice. Batman lets himself be demonized and allows Dent to be the hero. The end of The Dark Knight is him refusing to have the eternal dance between good and evil with the Joker. He stops the Joker's prophecy.

I think the mindset to have with the TDK Trilogy is that they're not films that are meant to be one long planned out story. Each film really ends in a pretty satisfying way. But there's also interestingly self-critical of each other. Batman Begins ends with this fun promise of more Batman Adventures with his classic rogues gallery. The Dark Knight actually explores what that would mean to have a billionaire financing a private way against an urban terrorist/The Devil and ends with Batman allowing himself to be demonized for the greater good. But then the third film is all about the limitations of deception and has Robin become a new Batman, but one who doesn't operate in the shadows.

But the ending to the Dark Knight only works as a tragedy if it is about Bruce still being Batman, while having to dodge the police.
If it's about him making himself into a martyr to save Harvey's reputation, he has to still be out there fighting against the new breed of criminals that the Joker is the vanguard of.

But according to TDKR, Bruce immediately hung up the cowl, shut himself off from the outside world and I guess everything worked out for the short to medium term?

The Dark Knight (2008)

[last lines]

James Gordon Jr.: Batman? Batman! Why's he running dad?

Lt. James Gordon: Because we have to chase him.

Cop: Okay we're going in! Go, go! Move!

James Gordon Jr.: He didn't do anything wrong.

Lt. James Gordon: Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knight.... Unless he blew the poo poo out of his knee. If so, he can retire and we won't make a big deal out of it.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 15:19

The Question IRL: Jun 8, 2013; Only two contestants left! Here is Doom's chance for revenge...

Fangz posted:

Isn't the eventual point of the DKR that... nope, it didn't actually fix anything?

It led to about five to six years of Gotham having super low come rate and not being threatened by Penguins with bombs strapped to them.
Which for Gotham seems like a really good deal.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 15:20

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

The Question IRL posted:

It led to about five to six years of Gotham having super low come rate and not being threatened by Penguins with bombs strapped to them.
Which for Gotham seems like a really good deal.

But stuff like Selina Kyle and Daggett and the whole league of shadows were still operating, and I feel like the film makes the point that the peace Bruce secured was really only great for the rich and wealthy. The wiki says the Dent Act was reversed at the end of the film though I can't really remember that.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 15:28

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

teagone posted:

Batman is pretty emo so his opening monologue in BvS works for me.

You might say the man that dresses up as a bat has a flair for the theatrical and dramatic.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 15:53

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Can't post for 4 hours!

Did they ever explain what the Dent Act actually was? I assumed that it meant anyone who committed a "violent" crime automatically got a harsh sentence, without a trial or anything. Why so many mobsters and gang members where in Blackgate, but it also took down people who were just desperate and held up a liquor store with a toy gun as well.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 17:17

teagone: Jun 10, 2003; That was pretty intense, huh?

McCloud posted:

You might say the man that dresses up as a bat has a flair for the theatrical and dramatic.

Yup. This too. It's a fitting monologue.

Snyder's doing a live Q&A after the BvS screening today on Vero. Hoping he holds nothing back. What he had to say during the Watchmen Q&A was great.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 17:37

lomzus: Mar 18, 2009

https://twitter.com/BoxOffice/statu...e-discussion%2F

https://twitter.com/BoxOffice/statu...e-discussion%2F

# ? Mar 24, 2019 17:38

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Less than a billion what a flop, wrap it up sjw failures

# ? Mar 24, 2019 17:43

Sgt. Politeness: Sep 29, 2003; I've seen shit you people wouldn't believe. Cop cars on fire off the shoulder of I-94. I watched search lights glitter in the dark near the Ambassador Bridge. All those moments will be lost in time, like piss in the drain. Time to retch.

I knew this would be the one to break Marvel, the superhero bubble has finally popped. Time to shudder the AMCs, no more blocks to bust!

# ? Mar 24, 2019 17:52

Teenage Fansub: Jan 28, 2006

teagone posted:

Snyder's doing a live Q&A after the BvS screening today on Vero. Hoping he holds nothing back. What he had to say during the Watchmen Q&A was great.

quote:

I'm like gently caress.. really. Like... like .. like .. like I'm like wake the gently caress UP. It's like ya know that's all. That's what I'm saying about like once you've lost your virginity to this FUCKIN' movie and then you come and say to me something about like 'oh my superhero wouldn't do that.' I'm like I'm like down the fuckin' road on that, you know what I mean? And it's a cool point of view. Like I'm 100% fine .. it's a cool POV to be like 'My heroes are innocent. My heroes didn't like fuckin, ya know, LIE to America. My heroes didn't fuckin' ya know embezzle money, my heroes didn't fuckin' commit any atrocities. I'm like that's cool but you're livin' in a fuckin' dreamworld. And I guess, ya know, so the cool thing is like mythologically-speaking I'm 100% fine and by the way I love anything more than Superman and Batman, but in the same way that Alan Moore was fed up with the fuckin' like OK 'no ya know .. they do THIS.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 18:26

teagone: Jun 10, 2003; That was pretty intense, huh?

Drunk Snyder owns. Seems like a chill guy to drink beers with and talk about nerd stuff. And then do deadlift + boxjump circuits in the morning.

# ? Mar 24, 2019 18:28

Karloff: Mar 21, 2013

Parklife!

# ? Mar 24, 2019 18:30

teagone: Jun 10, 2003; That was pretty intense, huh?

Teenage Fansub posted:

More from the Watchmen Q&A, courtesy of Mr Apollo:

Mr. Apollo posted:

The Watchman Q&A is going on right now and Snyder is talking about criticisms of his portrayal of superheros and Batman in particular. He's saying the he had people come up to him and get mad because "their" Batman would never kill anyone. He said "I'd tell them that's cool but you're living in a dream world."

He said he wanted to create "realistic" superheros. He said that no normal person is going to go out and do the things Batman does and going out and operating outside of the justice system to capture and stop criminals that the police can't is going to require someone to be brutal. He said something like "Is it a good thing? gently caress no but it's the only way they could operate and I don't get people who can't see that."

He also said he has seen all the Marvel movies and enjoys them "but there should be room to be able to do something different. There's more than one way to do characters especially those who have been around as long as many comic book characters have."

On Superman he said the he is a extremely good person who only wants to help people and the world and you never have to worry about him screwing you over. He said the Clark could have easily killed anyone at any point of his life, not intentionally but purely by accident; especially as a child. The fact that he didn't speaks volumes about the goodness of his character and the way he was raised by his parents.

He said that Superman genuinely wants to help people and the world and he is frustrated because people want him to only help "their side". He said Superman represents Truth, Justice, and the American Way 'whatever that means". Truth and Justice are not the exclusive property of any one group and Superman really wants to represent what those ideals mean, not just saying them or representing the ideals that one side wants to force on others.