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Azza Bamboo posted:I was never a fan of replacing the Lords, but to me it's more that the Lords appear to be appointed on the basis of an expertise. For example Winston was brought in so he can throw his voice into discussions about fertility and embryos, which has been relevant since the development of stem cells. It's not perfect, as Lords have no requirement to just stick to their knowledge bases and can vote whenever, but does seem to vaguely work this way and I feel that this could be lost if it becomes truly elected. The sheer volume of political flunkies, straight out donors and people who only turn up to draw expenses that make it into the Lords makes it de facto an absolutely awful institution: nothing this corrupt can serve as the appropriate second chamber. Replacing them with elected members is supposed to evade this but given how Lords corruption has been systematised by both major parties that probably won't help E: 342 peerages sold per decade is my bet
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Mar 25, 2019 13:08
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omg it's even worse than i thought
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Mar 25, 2019 13:08
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Azza Bamboo posted:For as long as Corbyn holds the keys to Labour I can dig this. The membership are a better bet. I keep harping on about it but it's true, big lefty thinkin' base, corbyn's gonna croak soon enough but there should be a tide of potential replacements and funding and policy and apparatus control to keep the party in our hands.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:09
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wait so is there actually officially a delay untiul at least mid-april?
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Mar 25, 2019 13:11
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A government needs to be a coalition willing to compromise on principles , even a Corbyn/Lab gov if they somehow win a Westminster majority via fptp. I doubt every Labour MP will be onboard with full gay space communism, but those votes will be needed to pass legislation, and compromises will need to be made. FPTP is the worst of all systems.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:11
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Coohoolin posted:omg it's even worse than i thought I guess its the old tactic of the big lie being believed over smaller lies. So outright claim that the UK would stop existing in 2022. You'd think more people would be talking about it. Also the London stock exchange just upping and moving one day without any preparation. Again because apparently only people on facebook know about the secret plans.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:14
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In 10 years all the blairites might have been ousted and the party should be full of young folk with excellent twitter game and the prime minister will be like one of the chapo guys or akala.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:14
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OwlFancier posted:In 10 years all the blairites might have been ousted and the party should be full of young folk with excellent twitter game and the prime minister will be like one of the chapo guys or akala. Don't lure me with hope
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Mar 25, 2019 13:16
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https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1110153372747874304
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Mar 25, 2019 13:16
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100% want PM Akala.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:17
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hmm yeah this will really appeal to leave voters https://twitter.com/redbethmond/status/1109785858431946752
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Mar 25, 2019 13:18
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bump_fn posted:wait so is there actually officially a delay untiul at least mid-april? Yes the EU agreed that if parliament does not agree to the Withdrawal Agreement we have until April 12th to declare to the EU our intentions going forward (whether we want a general election, to negotiate a new deal, to hold a vote, or what exactly). They have said that in these circumstances any options would be on the table including a longer extension. The date of April 12th is chosen because April 11th is the deadline on EU nations submitting their paperwork for being part of the EU parliament election. This is something we'd have to do if we want to have remaining in the EU under any circumstances as an option after April 11th. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Mar 25, 2019 |
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Mar 25, 2019 13:18
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Mr.Tophat posted:Don't lure me with hope I mean that's a bit optimistic but I am serious about my faith in material conditions. You can't give the kids back their future and they don't seem to be jumping on the nazi bandwagon. Future's gonna be ya yeeting booj heads off with a guillotine at this rate.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:18
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Thanks Laura.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:18
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They just can’t loving help themselves https://twitter.com/embarrassedbrit/status/1110152119263338497?s=21 Always a fun game though, guessing how many replies down I have to go to find a fubpee asking ‘what about brexit’. Second one this time, even in a condolences for a cancer diagnosis
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Mar 25, 2019 13:21
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Azza Bamboo posted:I'm not suggesting that AV is PR. I'm saying it's the only voting reform that has been discussed. While it isn't direct PR I do like it. And I'm saying that others have been discussed, there was a commission and everything, not all that long ago. The referendum was on AV because that was the only alternative to FPTP Tories would countenance and Clegg was a moron; it was never really wanted by anyone, because it is poo poo.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:21
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https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1110152210095185920 I don't get this: Didn't Bercow say he'd poo poo all over MV3 unless something had changed? Last I saw nothing had. Unless the EU's delay proposals count? Would have a solid sensible chuckle if Bercow sank this.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:21
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Would be funny if May non-fatally died by exploding in a non-threatening manner hurting no one but herself.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:24
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Regarde Aduck posted:Would be funny if May non-fatally died by exploding in a non-threatening manner hurting no one but herself. I thought that's exactly what happened in her speech last Wednesday.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:25
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I would suggest the EU making their position conditional on it absolutely constitutes a change in context for the legislation.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:26
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The scepticism around transitioning to a non-FPTP system as it will prevent full Labour control is exactly why the third parties would push it as an ask during confidence negotiations - I highly doubt it will be tabled by Labour based on the current climate (though they are committed to constitutional reform and lords reform) and it's the kind of thing that will need to be extracted from an incoming government imo
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Mar 25, 2019 13:27
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Coohoolin posted:it is absolutely bizarre and an outright re-writing of history to maintain that the independence movement is in any way a right wing project, let alone suggest that it is primarily so I was there too. I got a fair bit of vitriol for preferring the remain in the UK argument, especially in the year of the referendum. It was quite telling how often when I refused to be convinced by Yes fanatics I was told that I shouldn't have a vote anyway because I wasn't Scottish. It didn't matter to me much because I didn't plan to live in Scotland for more than a few years and ironically I wasn't going to vote anyway but please don't claim to speak for the entire campaign and suggest that it was inclusive and lovely because in my experience the inclusivity was very often conditional on backing the cause 
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Mar 25, 2019 13:30
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If we went to a full PR system neither the Conservatives or the Labour party would exist in anything like the same form they are now in 5 years.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:30
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keep punching joe posted:A government needs to be a coalition willing to compromise on principles , even a Corbyn/Lab gov if they somehow win a Westminster majority via fptp. I doubt every Labour MP will be onboard with full gay space communism, but those votes will be needed to pass legislation, and compromises will need to be made. Yeah any Corbyn government is going to really struggle to get anything left wing passed because of most Labour MPs being lovely. Especially when it would also probably rely on SNP support, and SNP MPs don't vote on devolved matters that don't effect Scotland.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:30
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StarkingBarfish posted:https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1110152210095185920 I think the EU offering an extension depending on MV3 counted as big enough change for bercow
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Mar 25, 2019 13:32
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Scikar posted:So what is the problem with people wanting Scottish independence in order to be part of the EU (ignoring for a moment whether that is realistic)? I would argue that with Brexit happening, there is an internationalist element to Scottish independence now. It seems strange and counterproductive to see someone wanting to distance themselves from UKIP's flagship policy, and call that nationalism. because nationalism isn't a synonym of autarky. you can be nationalists inside a larger international organization - almost always of trade, but political alliances are far from uncommon. it's entirely possible for large international organizations to take on nationalist tendencies or express the nationalism of their constituent parts, the migrant crisis being the most current and painful example. reducing nationalism/internationalism to "leave/remain" is both inaccurate and incredibly short sighted. nationalism is infinitely more insidious and dangerous than this ugly little expression of it and normalizing it has consequences far greater.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:35
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crispix posted:I was there too. I got a fair bit of vitriol for preferring the remain in the UK argument, especially in the year of the referendum. It was quite telling how often when I refused to be convinced by Yes fanatics I was told that I shouldn't have a vote anyway because I wasn't Scottish. It didn't matter to me much because I didn't plan to live in Scotland for more than a few years and ironically I wasn't going to vote anyway but please don't claim to speak for the entire campaign and suggest that it was inclusive and lovely because in my experience the inclusivity was very often conditional on backing the cause your experience tbh matters a bit less than like, actual policy and campaign goals hey guys please don't claim to speak for the labour party and say they want good things for me, my experience with Aberdeen Labour is that they're all corrupt bastards
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Mar 25, 2019 13:37
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Guavanaut posted:you could do that in an elected way, have a bar to entry based on membership of certain professional associations, but allow Scotland, Wales, and the English regions each elect a dozen Senators or whatever on a rolling basis, to secure representation of the regions rather than party donors and business interests, and allow proper scrutiny to be given to bills without having the largest upper house in the world outside of India (pop. 1.34bn). Obliterati posted:The sheer volume of political flunkies, straight out donors and people who only turn up to draw expenses that make it into the Lords makes it de facto an absolutely awful institution: nothing this corrupt can serve as the appropriate second chamber. Replacing them with elected members is supposed to evade this but given how Lords corruption has been systematised by both major parties that probably won't help So whether the appointments are balanced by proportional representation or simply appointments with no democratic ties, there needs to be more reform on who can be appointed in either case. Some way of showing expertise, and perhaps to start a convention where people don't become re appointed if they aren't serving the public interest in their tenure.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:39
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BoneMonkey posted:100% want PM Akala. He would campaign, and sit, with his rapper name, not his government name. When Johnny Foreigner asks who is our leader we'll be able to say "PM Akala". They will ask is that his first or last name. We will recoil in horror at how insulting they are to our culture. Then PM Akala will call us shits and tell us to pack it in with this smug, colonial thinking, and we'll happily explain that Akala is his chosen name.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:40
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keep punching joe posted:A government needs to be a coalition willing to compromise on principles , even a Corbyn/Lab gov if they somehow win a Westminster majority via fptp. I doubt every Labour MP will be onboard with full gay space communism, but those votes will be needed to pass legislation, and compromises will need to be made. FPTP is your best chance of full gay space communism. Any form of PR system is just going to compromise your vision. That's why you can't be opposed to compromise and opposed to FPTP. You can have your voting reform and get the future centerists want.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:45
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BoneMonkey posted:100% want PM Akala. Just found out the other day that Ms Dynamite was his sister. Not really important, I just found it interesting.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:45
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Aramoro posted:FPTP is your best chance of full gay space communism. Any form of PR system is just going to compromise your vision. That's why you can't be opposed to compromise and opposed to FPTP. You can have your voting reform and get the future centerists want. I see.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:46
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Aramoro posted:FPTP is your best chance of full gay space communism. Any form of PR system is just going to compromise your vision. That's why you can't be opposed to compromise and opposed to FPTP. You can have your voting reform and get the future centerists want. FPTP is the future centrists want, because as long as there can only be two major parties and they only win by appropriating each other's voters, you just get centrism forever.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:47
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I hope to win by replacing the old, dead tory voters with younger, better voters who have been more systematically hosed up by them.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:48
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OwlFancier posted:The membership are a better bet. I keep harping on about it but it's true, big lefty thinkin' base, corbyn's gonna croak soon enough but there should be a tide of potential replacements and funding and policy and apparatus control to keep the party in our hands. From the country that brought you amendments to an amendment: Democracy within a democracy. What could be better in a democracy than to engage yourself in EVEN MORE VOTING. 
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Mar 25, 2019 13:49
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OwlFancier posted:I hope to win by replacing the old, dead tory voters with younger, better voters who have been more systematically hosed up by them. Unfortunately the old dead Tories are constantly being replaced by slightly younger, nearly-dead Tories. Unless the median age of the population starts to drop demographically we're hosed until like 2035.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:50
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I mean it is quite nice to vote for labour internal stuff because you have a whole posse of pretty deece internet people to tell you who's alright and who's a bellend and as long as there's a lot of lefty members you often have a bit of a spoilt choice for who you want to vote for cos lots of them are good.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:51
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thespaceinvader posted:Unfortunately the old dead Tories are constantly being replaced by slightly younger, nearly-dead Tories. Nah this is the thing, it's not just old/young it's specifically about the circumstances of generations. The old tories aren't being replaced by younger tories, they're being replaced by younger people who haven't got poo poo cos all the old tories have it and they're the last lot to have anything. The age split is trending older and older and the tories are shutting down the things that keep old people alive. And this ignoring climate change which the younger lot definitely believe in and definitely are looking for someone to blame for it.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:53
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thespaceinvader posted:FPTP is the future centrists want, because as long as there can only be two major parties and they only win by appropriating each other's voters, you just get centrism forever. I don't see how that changes with a PR system? Like the point of PR is having no overall winner so people have to compromise to get anything done. Like the SNP need the Greens to pass things in Holyrood.
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Mar 25, 2019 13:54
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Aramoro posted:I don't see how that changes with a PR system? Like the point of PR is having no overall winner so people have to compromise to get anything done. Like the SNP need the Greens to pass things in Holyrood. that's good though, i like the greens having more of a say in stuff
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Mar 25, 2019 13:55
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