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"Innocent until proven guilty" I cry as I slowly shrink into a fascist state
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Mar 27, 2019 02:42
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Well I guess we can know he benefited from the privilege of wealth no matter what since without an expensive lawyer, a poor black man would have just been railroaded by the DA after the CPD beat false testimony out of his friends
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Mar 27, 2019 02:58
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Whatever happened, that guy isn’t right and needs to disappear for a while. Like you don’t just go back on TV immediately after.Unoriginal Name posted:"Innocent until proven guilty" I cry as I slowly shrink into a fascist state Wealthy celebrities are different, even if they’re members of a minority group. Michael Jackson etc etc.
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Mar 27, 2019 03:17
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Koalas March posted:The check was legit for training for his new music video, going by both the memo line and the rates on their website/youtube page. yeah, thats seems right. I am genuinely sorry i doubted him. gently caress the CPD, loving bent pricks.
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Mar 27, 2019 03:26
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Craptacular! posted:Wealthy celebrities are different, even if they’re members of a minority group. Michael Jackson etc etc. Cops gently caress with wealthy black people all the time, they arrested a Harvard University professor for breaking into his own house. Wealth is powerful but it's not a magic field that makes American cops not racist shitbags. The advantage of wealthy celebrities is they have the means to actually fight back when cops try to railroad them on fake charges
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Mar 27, 2019 04:05
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VitalSigns posted:yea I'm sure the Chicago police graciously dropped a case against a black man because they figured he'd suffered enough and paid his debt to society, that sounds like them. Well, the Chicago police didn't drop the case, they're furious about it being dropped, it was the DA acting pretty clearly in defiance of the police? Like, yes, DAs are usually "cops" in the functional sense, but in the specific here it feels like two distinct groups? (Not disputing that the CPD is 100% guilty of some sketchy poo poo here, just that the narrative of them being the ones to drop it isn't quite wrong)
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Mar 27, 2019 04:53
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Yeah I saw the clarification later that the CPD is mad that the DA dropped the case
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Mar 27, 2019 04:59
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Like tbh there is enough weird contradictory poo poo with this case that I don't think there's any easy explanation for what happened, so at this point the best call is to just wait for more information
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Mar 27, 2019 05:02
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See this is why I don't consider Chicago a proper city of the US, ever. It's more like Bogota.
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Mar 27, 2019 06:44
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Z. Autobahn posted:Like tbh there is enough weird contradictory poo poo with this case that I don't think there's any easy explanation for what happened, so at this point the best call is to just wait for more information I mean sure, we'll never know what happened that night without more information, but we do know that all of the evidence implicating Smollet of a crime was fabricated by the notoriously corrupt and despicable Chicago PD, so I don't think "well we don't know the black guy didn't kick his own rear end, maybe all the non-fake evidence didn't make it into the leaks" is the reasonable default anymore given what we know. And people spinning conspiracy theories about why the DA wouldn't want to bring a case that would require her to turn over evidence of outrageous police misconduct to the defense in discovery deserve to be roundly mocked. E: There's also the small matter that the story that a guy hired his personal trainers to kick his own rear end in exchange for their regular personal training fee which he paid by check to cash in on all the sweet fame and fortune America lavishes on gay black men who get lynched never made any drat sense in the first place VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 07:13
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VitalSigns posted:I mean sure, we'll never know what happened that night without more information, but we do know that all of the evidence implicating Smollet of a crime was fabricated by the notoriously corrupt and despicable Chicago PD, so I don't think "well we don't know the black guy didn't kick his own rear end, maybe all the non-fake evidence didn't make it into the leaks" is the reasonable default anymore given what we know. Right, I agree, the "he totally faked it" narrative doesn't make sense, but the "CPD framed him from the start and the case is being dropped to protect the CPD" narrative doesn't make sense either given how hard they're fighting the case being dropped. Like my best guess at this point is a Coen Bros-esque poo poo-show where a variety of people have all made stupid or sketchy choices, even when they're at odds with each other; we just don't know which people those are or what their choices were. Like there's no single narrative anyone's offered that adequately explains the actions involved, so there has to be SOME poo poo going on we're not seeing.
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Mar 27, 2019 07:42
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Z. Autobahn posted:Right, I agree, the "he totally faked it" narrative doesn't make sense, but the "CPD framed him from the start and the case is being dropped to protect the CPD" narrative doesn't make sense either given how hard they're fighting the case being dropped. Sure it does: given that they know they've hosed the case so hard the DA will never bring it for the sake of her own career no matter what they say, they have no reason not to continue lying and blaming the whole thing on her to deflect from their handling of the case. I'm not saying 100% that's what happened, but it's not some impossibly nonsensical scenario or anything
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Mar 27, 2019 07:53
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VitalSigns posted:Sure it does: given that they know they've hosed the case so hard the DA will never bring it for the sake of her own career no matter what they say, they have no reason not to continue lying and blaming the whole thing on her to deflect from their handling of the case. You’re saying the whole thing today was kayfabe and the cops are in on it with the DA? It’s not impossible, but it feels like a bit of a stretch; contesting the DA so publically and aggressively feels like it’s calling attention to something they want buried, and I don’t know why the DA would go along with it when it likely means the end of her career
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Mar 27, 2019 08:00
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Z. Autobahn posted:You’re saying the whole thing today was kayfabe and the cops are in on it with the DA? It’s not impossible, but it feels like a bit of a stretch; contesting the DA so publically and aggressively feels like it’s calling attention to something they want buried, and I don’t know why the DA would go along with it when it likely means the end of her career Are you familiar with the crimes of the Chicago Police Department?
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Mar 27, 2019 08:04
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Turtlicious posted:Are you familiar with the crimes of the Chicago Police Department? I’m not denying it on grounds that they’re too ethical, obviously, I’m saying this plan doesn’t make sense. If you just got your rear end covered from a bunch of your illegal poo poo being aired, why would you the draw way more attention back onto it while also burning the one person covering your rear end? It’s like when 9/11 truthers defend their poo poo with “Well the CIA did lots of evil stuff in South America”. Yes, it’s absolutely true, but there’s a huge difference between doing corrupt poo poo in secret when you think you can get away with it, and publically faking a dispute between the city’s mayor and its DA for a national audience. Z. Autobahn fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 08:06
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Z. Autobahn posted:I’m not denying it on grounds that they’re too ethical, obviously, I’m saying this plan doesn’t make sense. If you just got your rear end covered from a bunch of your illegal poo poo being aired, why would you the draw way more attention back onto it while also burning the one person covering your rear end? Are you an American? That's just not how the police operates man.
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Mar 27, 2019 08:10
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Z. Autobahn posted:You’re saying the whole thing today was kayfabe and the cops are in on it with the DA? No I'm saying that the DA has perfectly good reasons for not wanting to bring the case, and the cops are lying about it because there's no downside to lying about a case they know the DA would probably be disbarred for trying to prosecute. Why wouldn't they throw her under the bus to make themselves look good? What's she going to do, torch her own career by going "fine I'll just charge this guy with your fake evidence then!"
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Mar 27, 2019 08:10
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The CPD is used to doing whatever poo poo they want and getting (mostly) away with it. They're throwing a temper tantrum because their hand got very lightly swatted. Edit: Especially towards PoC and vulnerable groups. Just like most police departments
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Mar 27, 2019 08:12
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VitalSigns posted:No I'm saying that the DA has perfectly good reasons for not wanting to bring the case, and the cops are lying about it because there's no downside to lying about a case they know the DA would probably be disbarred for trying to prosecute. Her career is functionally torched by this already. A DA hated by the local cops is done, especially one blasted by the mayor. Like, the whole problem with DAs is how tightly embedded they are with the local cops. She doesn’t have to prosecute Smollet to defend herself, but given that the cops and the mayor are going scorched earth on her, she could absolutely defend herself by revealing the sketchy poo poo the cops did (or having her office leak it). Like.... there absolutely is a huge downside to antagonizing her (if she has incriminating poo poo on you and she’s covering your rear end). You’re saying the cops are deliberately biting the hand protecting them, which I just have a hard time buying.
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Mar 27, 2019 08:16
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The sketchy stuff the cops did already leaked dude, they tried to say a check to personal trainers for personal training was a payment for a fake lynching. Are you really going with "the cops who are too stupid/dishonest to read a memo field in a check would never be this stupid/dishonest" to maintain the benefit of the doubt that black people are out there lynching themselves to make whites feel bad. Are you not American or something, have you not seen cops throw absurd temper tantrums and try to burn people who are normally on their side when things don't go 100% their way all the time E: Remember when the NYPD did a slowdown to "make the city pay" for electing a mayor who timidly suggested they maybe not murder quite so many innocent people quite so brazenly, and then had to stop when they realized everyone loved not getting shaken down for petty bullshit all the time VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 08:19
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VitalSigns posted:The sketchy stuff the cops did already leaked dude, they tried to say a check to personal trainers for personal training was a payment for a fake lynching. The check thing was dumb as hell, but it’s standard cop poo poo; cops reach all the time, it’s not a scandal. To justify a hard 180 pivot on a case this spotlighted would require something a lot more damning. Which, to be clear, I think likely happened! But I also think cops are fundamentally cowards who look after themselves and want to get away with their poo poo. And I cannot wrap my head around “the cops orchestrated a massive public hit-job, including the mayor, purely t antagonize the person who is actively protecting them and could hurt them the most”. That’s not stupid/dishonest, that’s just lunacy. VitalSigns posted:Are you not American or something, have you not seen cops throw absurd temper tantrums and try to burn people who are normally on their side when things don't go 100% their way all the time Sure absolutely, but in this scenario, things *are* going their way: the DA is protecting them from being exposed. The alternative is, it goes to trial, and they’re hosed. So that’s where I’m genuinely not able to follow this narrative: Are the cops *actually* mad at the DA? If so, why would they be mad at the person taking a huge career hit to shield them? Or are they faking being mad, in which case, what do they gain from drawing more attention to this and risking more exposure? Z. Autobahn fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 08:24
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Z. Autobahn posted:Are the cops *actually* mad at the DA? If so, why would they be mad at the person taking a huge career hit to shield them? Or are they faking being mad, in which case, what do they gain from drawing more attention to this and risking more exposure? They're *actually* mad at the DA because they are used to fabricating evidence, railroading suspects, torturing fake confessions out of people, and getting away with it because everyone in power worships the cops. I'm sure they don't even think they did anything wrong, to them faking evidence to implicate someone they ""know"" is guilty is just standard operating procedure, of course it's a slap in the face to them that the DA isn't accepting it now even if objectively speaking her actions are protecting them. Z. Autobahn posted:But I also think cops are fundamentally cowards who look after themselves and want to get away with their poo poo. And I cannot wrap my head around “the cops orchestrated a massive public hit-job, including the mayor, purely t antagonize the person who is actively protecting them and could hurt them the most”. That’s not stupid/dishonest, that’s just lunacy. *clutches pearls* "Mayor Black Site Torture Facility would never do anything crazy!" VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 08:32
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VitalSigns posted:They're *actually* mad at the DA because they are used to fabricating evidence, railroading suspects, torturing fake confessions out of people, and getting away with it because everyone in power worships the cops. Okay, that makes the most sense; the DA isn’t covering for the cops, she just correctly sees this is a losing case and the evidence isn’t compelling. VitalSigns posted:*clutches pearls* "Mayor Black Site Torture Facility would never do anything crazy!" I mean, I don’t think running black site torture facilities is crazy. Monstrous and evil, yes, but not crazy in the same sense as “attack the person protecting you”. But again, if the DA isn’t protecting them, just genuinely not prosecuting a losing case,’ it adds up.
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Mar 27, 2019 08:37
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Z. Autobahn posted:Okay, that makes the most sense; the DA isn’t covering for the cops, she just correctly sees this is a losing case and the evidence isn’t compelling. Yes that is what I'm saying, that she correctly doesn't want to bring the case regardless of whether the cops appreciate her or not, because it would be clearly unethical for her to do so and discovery would reveal that beyond doubt since this defendant can afford a proper defense. The cops are mad at her because they "know" Smollett is guilty and they are corrupt authoritarian dickbags who think they're in the right to lie, cheat, fake evidence, torture, extract false confessions, and whatever else it takes to put ""guilty"" people away and they're pissed that she isn't playing ball like they're used to. Z. Autobahn posted:I mean, I don’t think running black site torture facilities is crazy. Monstrous and evil, yes, but not crazy in the same sense as “attack the person protecting you”. But again, if the DA isn’t protecting them, just genuinely not prosecuting a losing case,’ it adds up. Rahm Emmanuel is a piece of poo poo. Even if Jussie Smollet is guilty, it's clear that the CPD has hosed this case six ways from Sunday by fabricating evidence, lying, and compromising the investigation with leaks to the press and it's 100% their fault that it can't go to trial, yet Rahm's over here attacking the DA and sucking cop dick. Even in the best case scenario his reaction is completely irrational, I don't think you can read anything into it or apply any kind of hyperrational game theory reasoning to Rahm's actions to infer anything either way. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 08:50
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Craptacular! posted:Whatever happened, that guy isn’t right and needs to disappear for a while. Like you don’t just go back on TV immediately after. MJ was several orders of magnitude more famous than this guy. Like, there literally hasn't been a star as big as MJ since.
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Mar 27, 2019 10:01
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Charlz Guybon posted:MJ was several orders of magnitude more famous than this guy. Yeah, but “innocent until proven guilty”, a phrase that’s never held up to the court of public opinion (and due to underreported sex crimes etc that distinction is important) but it’s especially untrue with people’s opinions of famous people. Some people think if I’m not defending this guy that I’m defending CPD. But I thought it was wrong for LAPD to drag MJ to the precinct to strip him naked and photograph his genitals, while at the same time I’m reserved to understand the position of people who note that settlements aren’t the same thing as being acquitted in building a conscience. Sometimes everyone is bad. People have their presumptions of Michael and OJ and “cops are bad” doesn’t change that, it just sort of overlaps with it.
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Mar 27, 2019 10:14
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I'm sorry but insisting over and over that it just doesn't make sense to you is not actually a well constructed argument.
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Mar 27, 2019 11:13
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Z. Autobahn posted:Okay, that makes the most sense; the DA isn’t covering for the cops, she just correctly sees this is a losing case and the evidence isn’t compelling. Not quite. I mean, cpd is corrupt as hell, but if the attorney is dropping a bad case why is smollett surrendering his bail money? That's functionally donating 10 grand to the people who ran you through the ringer, live on national tv. If he was forced to do so despite a bad case why isnt that fact all over the media?
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Mar 27, 2019 11:54
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VitalSigns posted:but we do know that all of the evidence implicating Smollet of a crime was fabricated by the notoriously corrupt and despicable Chicago PD, No, we don't know this. You are making this up.
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Mar 27, 2019 11:59
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Like, the two guys he paid are on video buying rope and masks and red hats.
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Mar 27, 2019 12:00
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There were no red hats involved in the video.FoolyCharged posted:Not quite. I mean, cpd is corrupt as hell, but if the attorney is dropping a bad case why is smollett surrendering his bail money? That's functionally donating 10 grand to the people who ran you through the ringer, live on national tv. If he was forced to do so despite a bad case why isnt that fact all over the media? Perhaps that was their 'fee' for releasing him early and not leaving some complaint looming over his head as a 'We could drag you back in for this!'. It's not like the police aren't known for holding people for extended periods without any actual charges against them, especially PoC.
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Mar 27, 2019 12:03
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FoolyCharged posted:Not quite. I mean, cpd is corrupt as hell, but if the attorney is dropping a bad case why is smollett surrendering his bail money? That's functionally donating 10 grand to the people who ran you through the ringer, live on national tv. If he was forced to do so despite a bad case why isnt that fact all over the media? Hang on, the process for someone with $$ that thinks they’re probably getting found guilty in an out and out court fight is a plea deal. Not this weird as hell “dropped charges but we’re keeping bail” thing. And are you wondering why Smollett and his team wouldn’t trumpet being coerced to essentially donate money? Maybe they’re preparing a suit and don’t want to tip their hand. Maybe $10k is small potatoes to Smollett and he figured it was a good cost for not having to deal with the CPD any longer. Maybe a lot of things! The media and the public don’t actually have the right or means to see every single piece of evidence here right now. We only know as much as we do because of what I think are CPD leaks. That they stopped leaking after the feds got involved isn’t a condemnation of Smollett.
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Mar 27, 2019 12:56
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If I remember right, first the cops claimed that there was a receipt and video evidence of the rope being bought. Then they walked it back to the sale being in cash, but they brought the suspects to a store and the clerk said they recognized the suspects. Which is a decidedly different thing. I wonder if there's an article about the evolving CPD claims.
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Mar 27, 2019 12:57
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Your Parents posted:the prosecutor is Kim Foxx, ..., who recused herself from the case Does recusal mean something different in Chicago?
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Mar 27, 2019 13:31
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So jussie faked the hate crime but because the cops screwed the case up the charges are just $10k and community service. Seems pretty simple?
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Mar 27, 2019 13:44
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Your Parents posted:Like, the two guys he paid are on video buying rope and masks and red hats. what actually was on the tape was them buying masks before a polar vortex, and I think it was actually tape they were getting not rope.
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Mar 27, 2019 14:01
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Snazzy Frocks posted:So jussie faked the hate crime but because the cops screwed the case up the charges are just $10k and community service. Seems pretty simple? The problem with that theory is that all the claims supporting the notion that Jussie faked anything -- are sourced through the cops, who we now know were acting in bad faith. At this point possibilities range from "Smollett was entirely innocent of any wrongdoing" to "Smollett did something bad, but whatever it was, the cops appear to have been actively attempting to frame him for something worse".
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Mar 27, 2019 14:02
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Do you think he'd accept paying $10k and community service if he was innocent? Moreso if he was actually attacked in a hate crime?
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Mar 27, 2019 14:15
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Koalas March posted:The check was legit for training for his new music video, going by both the memo line and the rates on their website/youtube page. I just want to thank you for tl;dr'ing this. I lost track of what was false reporting and what wasn't. I guess the fascists succeeded in their goal in that regard. Snazzy Frocks posted:Do you think he'd accept paying $10k and community service if he was innocent? Moreso if he was actually attacked in a hate crime? Most lawyers will tell you to take the deferred prosecution, even if you're innocent, because it's much cheaper and quicker than defending yourself in court. ummel fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Mar 27, 2019 |
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Mar 27, 2019 14:16
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Snazzy Frocks posted:Do you think he'd accept paying $10k and community service if he was innocent? Moreso if he was actually attacked in a hate crime? I'm not sure he "accepted" anything. From what I've seen so far this appears to be a unilateral move by the prosecutor. The early claims of a "deal" seem to have been amended/corrected.
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Mar 27, 2019 14:18
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