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Neddy Seagoon posted:I really do love season 1 of 00, just for watching the wheels turn on how to bring down a bunch of nigh-magical giant robots with conventional technology based on what they manage to figure out through observing them. It's a nice change from the typical "stamp foot, throw hat, drat those heroes!! I often describe 00 season 1 as Gundam as a heist genre when pitching it to people, since on the protagonist side the question isn't really "can they do this" (they can) it's "can they get away with this" which is something that's rapidly devolving around them as they reveal more and more of their tech with each incident, intended or not, and CB's issues tend to be emotional, relational and mental ones much like how a lot of criminal dramas tend to revolve around unresolved baggage and other hangups; the role of the antagonists are like that of the police in that they're doing an investigation to puzzle out the pieces
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Mar 28, 2019 14:59
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" opposition.
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Merilan posted:I often describe 00 season 1 as Gundam as a heist genre when pitching it to people, since on the protagonist side the question isn't really "can they do this" (they can) it's "can they get away with this" which is something that's rapidly devolving around them as they reveal more and more of their tech with each incident, intended or not, and CB's issues tend to be emotional, relational and mental ones much like how a lot of criminal dramas tend to revolve around unresolved baggage and other hangups; the role of the antagonists are like that of the police in that they're doing an investigation to puzzle out the pieces Yeah, I really loved that a major reason they didn't go all-out from the start is so everyone doesn't know what each of the Gundams are actually capable of. Great work, Allelujah, now everyone knows how fast the Kyrios can actually go  .
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Mar 28, 2019 15:11
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Merilan posted:That 00 season 1 battle where All the Nations deployed Everything They Had to try to beat the Meisters by just making them marathon an 8-hour battle until their bodies gave out comes to mind Isn't it more like 16 or 20 hours long? I recall it starting during the early day and going on in well in to the night at least.
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Mar 28, 2019 16:06
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tsob posted:Isn't it more like 16 or 20 hours long? I recall it starting during the early day and going on in well in to the night at least. Yeah, something like that. They were really close to exhaustion when the Trinities actually showed up.
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Mar 28, 2019 16:48
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I vaguely recall Setsuna taking drugs a la Kou in 0080 to help him keep going too, though I could be making that part up since I haven't seen season 1 in years. I know some of the Meisters just hunkered down and tried to weather all attacks inside GN shields at one point, because they were too physically hosed to keep going. Also, the best part of that Hello Kitty/Gundam crossover ad is seeing 0079 reanimated with modern techniques while still sticking to the old designs and styles. It'd be cool to get the whole show re-done like that. No actual changes, not even Doan's Island (though I'm actually a fan of that particular episode for humanizing Zeon soldiers); just updated animation. Keep everything the same warts and all, because even the best intentioned changes will inevitably lead to ones (at least) some fans wouldn't like.
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Mar 28, 2019 16:58
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Seemlar posted:Seed never did anything over the top with scale, it just managed to power creep fast enough to run through almost the entire Universal Century tech tree in it's two series and four years passing in-universe I dunno, I remember the final battle in Destiny being pretty huge, especially thanks to the Requiem being spread out so wide. It had hundreds of suits getting incinerated at a time. There was also the Destroy's rampage, which basically involved it carving a trail through Germany and pretty much every ground force in the vicinity. Darth Walrus fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Mar 28, 2019 |
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Mar 28, 2019 18:48
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Seemlar posted:Seed never did anything over the top with scale, it just managed to power creep fast enough to run through almost the entire Universal Century tech tree in it's two series and four years passing in-universe The first season had four Gundams take out an entire fleet by themselves.
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Mar 28, 2019 18:50
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tsob posted:Also, the best part of that Hello Kitty/Gundam crossover ad is seeing 0079 reanimated with modern techniques while still sticking to the old designs and styles. It'd be cool to get the whole show re-done like that. No actual changes, not even Doan's Island (though I'm actually a fan of that particular episode for humanizing Zeon soldiers); just updated animation. Keep everything the same warts and all, because even the best intentioned changes will inevitably lead to ones (at least) some fans wouldn't like. Go play some of the ps2 gundam games or look them up on youtube. They have alot of reanimated scenes from 0079. All the major parts anyway. Also 
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Mar 28, 2019 19:39
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Merilan posted:That 00 season 1 battle where All the Nations deployed Everything They Had to try to beat the Meisters by just making them marathon an 8-hour battle until their bodies gave out comes to mind Guys, stop posting my strategy for defeating the Big Zam in Gihren's Greed! No really - that's one of the best ways to take it out. Bait the computer into counter-firing by sending chaff like Balls (or better yet - Toriares) to attack it, then surround it and beat it down with conventional weapons/strong melee suits once it's out of energy (this takes about 3-4 attacks). The Elmeth with Lalah in it is a bit harder though, because she will dumpster whatever it is you send after her (including Amuro) and generally stays far enough away to avoid getting mobbed and dragged down like the Zam. Edit: Also, Gihren's Greed games are good for 'updated' animations, since they basically animated every cutscene up until Threat of Axis V for the PSP. I also found out that when you win a Complete Victory as the Federation in the OYW (control all major and minor areas), the Federation publicly executes Gihren via firing squad on what I assume to be universally broadcasted live TV. LuiCypher fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Mar 28, 2019 |
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Mar 28, 2019 19:50
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I love that in this little video featuring Hello Kitty they show the Gundam shooting down every enemy mobile suit with a straight cockpit shot. Just brutal as poo poo.
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Mar 28, 2019 20:53
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If I can post a couple of my favorite Gundam battle themes... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dl_q1DSVws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t9jXfUM1rU They accompany some of my most fond Gundam memories, like Kamille taking on Scirocco (and telling Haman she's a demon who needs to be destroyed in Gundam vs. Zeta Gunam) and Heero piloting the Epyon.
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Mar 28, 2019 21:30
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hot take: the live action Gundam movie will probably be pretty good it's being written by a loving amazing comics writer, and Legendary has made giant robot movies already that were fine (in addition to the loving amazing kaiju poo poo they've been doing). chances are we'll either get a decent live-action remake of the 0079 trilogy or some completely new AU that still feels Close Enough.
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Mar 28, 2019 22:23
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:hot take: the live action Gundam movie will probably be pretty good If Bandai actually manages to get the 1/1 scale Gundam to walk next year at an Olympics-related event like they've claimed they will, that's going to be the greatest movie commercial of all time. Millions of people around the world will be introduced to Gundam by seeing a full scale Gundam walking around I do agree that the movie has a decent chance of being good. It's not 2002 anymore, we aren't getting Dragon Ball Evolution again. But I still really think it's not going to be a remake or a completely new AU. It's going to be close enough to the original that it still uses those images and names, but they aren't going to be bound by existing canon and will make a bunch of changes. Here's a prediction I feel pretty confident in; If Fraw Bow is in it, she will be basically a completely different character
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Mar 28, 2019 22:42
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I'm betting it'll be broadly similar to UC/OYW but with more americanized names and characters loosely filling the same roles as the original cast.
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Mar 28, 2019 22:48
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MonsieurChoc posted:The first season had four Gundams take out an entire fleet by themselves. I mean to be honest that's pretty standard for Gundam. It's pretty hard to make carriers anything but big floating targets once your power levels get high enough. IBO made carriers ni-invulnerable and Mika still was crushing the poo poo out of them by the end.
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Mar 28, 2019 23:29
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Gripweed posted:we aren't getting Dragon Ball Evolution again Ghost in the Shell was pretty recent
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Mar 28, 2019 23:33
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Gripweed posted:Here's a prediction I feel pretty confident in; If Fraw Bow is in it, she will be basically a completely different character I kind of doubt it, simply because her existing character is basically just "childhood friend" and that's necessary to ground Amuro in civilian life, so they can't not make her the girl next door to start with. She could go through lots of development, but I doubt that will happen either, simply because she's just not that prominent a character and if any female character is likely to get focus and development it's far more likely to be Sayla. She's more central to the story as Char's sister, as well as to the action as a pilot. I imagine the film will go The Origin route by giving her a GM and a large role in the resolution of A Bao A Qu, by convincing the Zeon remnants to stand down. Well, presuming it goes that route, though I doubt it'll get to there until a third film. Still, even in the first some ground work could be laid as Char's sister and a pilot.
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Mar 29, 2019 00:07
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Gripweed posted:If Bandai actually manages to get the 1/1 scale Gundam to walk next year at an Olympics-related event like they've claimed they will, that's going to be the greatest movie commercial of all time. Millions of people around the world will be introduced to Gundam by seeing a full scale Gundam walking around Improbable Lobster posted:I'm betting it'll be broadly similar to UC/OYW but with more americanized names and characters loosely filling the same roles as the original cast. the whole AU structure gives them an out to do a story that's UC/OYW-ish without explicitly being that story, like Improbable Lobster said. like, SEED and X both already kind of did that.
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Mar 29, 2019 00:47
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tsob posted:I kind of doubt it, simply because her existing character is basically just "childhood friend" and that's necessary to ground Amuro in civilian life, so they can't not make her the girl next door to start with. She could go through lots of development, but I doubt that will happen either, simply because she's just not that prominent a character and if any female character is likely to get focus and development it's far more likely to be Sayla. She's more central to the story as Char's sister, as well as to the action as a pilot. I imagine the film will go The Origin route by giving her a GM and a large role in the resolution of A Bao A Qu, by convincing the Zeon remnants to stand down. Well, presuming it goes that route, though I doubt it'll get to there until a third film. Still, even in the first some ground work could be laid as Char's sister and a pilot. “Make Fraw Bow and Sayla the same character, she was secretly his neighbor all along” is how I expect that to go.
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Mar 29, 2019 02:17
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:the whole AU structure gives them an out to do a story that's UC/OYW-ish without explicitly being that story, like Improbable Lobster said. like, SEED and X both already kind of did that. Andrew Ray and his girlfriend Francine Bow must pilot the Gundam, while they work with the crew of the USS White Base to survive he attacks of the Zeon ace Charles Aznable
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Mar 29, 2019 04:34
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Tae posted:Ghost in the Shell was pretty recent Stop reminding me God that movie was needlessly awful. They clearly put an insane amount of research into the entire franchise considering they drew from the movie, Innocence, SAC and Arise, nevermind having some great casting and setbuilding... yet the script was just utter garbage.
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Mar 29, 2019 05:08
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ImpAtom posted:I mean to be honest that's pretty standard for Gundam. It's pretty hard to make carriers anything but big floating targets once your power levels get high enough. IBO made carriers ni-invulnerable and Mika still was crushing the poo poo out of them by the end. While true within the context of Gundam, those two points don't really link together though as separate statements. This is generally an issue with virtually any fiction that tries to pretend giant bipedal robots are the apex weapon* for obvious reasons, but from a practical standpoint there's very little you can do better with a bipedal design that you couldn't with some other shape - particularly once flight gets involved and even the niche rough terrain thing is basically bypassed. And similarly, most of the super equipment they get mounted on them has no real reason it couldn't be mounted on warships as well - I-fields for instance: even if there's constraints that mean they can't be fully covered, there's no technical reason at least critical sections of a ship couldn't be given how we've seen them fielded. Or mounting funnels directly on a ship with an NT exclusively focused on them (or some small portion of them) rather than having to pilot the suit at the same time. And while something like the Wings of Light probably wouldn't work on a ship, they should certainly work fine on an MA of roughly the same size at the very least. Like, the number of suits that are somehow mounting beam weaponry just as, or even more in a fair number of cases, powerful as what the actual warships are mounting is pretty indicative of this absurdity, given power systems. *: Ironically, for all its other excesses, 40k and its Titans are actually one of those counterexamples - they're so much more powerful than most other stuff precisely due to their size and thus the larger systems they can mount, and pseudo-conventional vehicles built to around that size actually are more powerful.
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Mar 29, 2019 06:42
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ImpAtom posted:I mean to be honest that's pretty standard for Gundam. It's pretty hard to make carriers anything but big floating targets once your power levels get high enough. IBO made carriers ni-invulnerable and Mika still was crushing the poo poo out of them by the end. Mika only wrecked one carrier in the entire series, if memory serves, and that one had the captain exposing the bridge to all and sundry until Mika showed up to wreck his poo poo. Other than massed Dainslief fire, not that many ships went down. From memory... 1) The Brewers's ship. Detonated by Eugene to cover for the shuttle entry to Earth in season 1. 2) Naze's Hammerhead. Dainslief. 3) One of Iok's Halfbeaks. Rammed by Naze. 4) Golden Jasley. Mikazuki'd. 5) An unknown number of McGillis's Halfbeaks. Dainslief fire. 6) Hotarubi, detonated to cover Tekkadan's escape to Mars. 7) McGillis's last Halfbeak. Suicidal ramming attack. 8) One of Rustal's Halfbeak. Homicidal ramming attack. 9) One of Rustal's Halfbeaks. McGillis's swords through the cockpit. I could have missed something, but by my count, the overwhelming majority of destroyed suits were lost to massed railgun fire, and of the remainder, more were lost to ramming than to attacks from Gundams. You even get battleships killing a Gundam at one point, which doesn't tend to happen.
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Mar 29, 2019 10:41
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Lord Koth posted:And while something like the Wings of Light probably wouldn't work on a ship, they should certainly work fine on an MA of roughly the same size at the very least. The Wings of Light get retconned in the Crossbone manga to have been part of their motherships propulsion system, then in the Steel Seven follow up they use the WoL on a big flying wing type vessel to get from earth to Jupiter in a matter of days. Steel Seven also introduces the F99 Recordbreaker, testbed mobile suits equipped with the WoL.
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Mar 29, 2019 11:32
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Lord Koth posted:While true within the context of Gundam, those two points don't really link together though as separate statements. This is generally an issue with virtually any fiction that tries to pretend giant bipedal robots are the apex weapon* for obvious reasons, but from a practical standpoint there's very little you can do better with a bipedal design that you couldn't with some other shape - particularly once flight gets involved and even the niche rough terrain thing is basically bypassed. And similarly, most of the super equipment they get mounted on them has no real reason it couldn't be mounted on warships as well - I-fields for instance: even if there's constraints that mean they can't be fully covered, there's no technical reason at least critical sections of a ship couldn't be given how we've seen them fielded. Or mounting funnels directly on a ship with an NT exclusively focused on them (or some small portion of them) rather than having to pilot the suit at the same time. And while something like the Wings of Light probably wouldn't work on a ship, they should certainly work fine on an MA of roughly the same size at the very least. i feel like the galaxy brain endpoint of this thought is legend of galactic heroes deciding its warships are going to be giant handguns
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Mar 29, 2019 12:10
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Lord Koth posted:Ironically, for all its other excesses, 40k and its Titans are actually one of those counterexamples - they're so much more powerful than most other stuff precisely due to their size and thus the larger systems they can mount, and pseudo-conventional vehicles built to around that size actually are more powerful. Not that I'm familiar with 40k to know what kind of conventional machines you're talking about, but I'm pretty sure 40k Titans are dozens of feet high; so any conventional platforms of that size would be just as inefficient for different reasons regardless. Macross tends to have battleships heavily outgun it's mechs by a large quantity, because the super dimensional cannons they mount are just so loving broken. As in, one hits a ship orbiting the Moon while docked on Earth in the first episode of the first show broken. It took until the Frontier movies for a smaller mech to mount a weapon of the same type, and even it wasn't nearly as destructive given the difference in scale. Variable fighters still tend to tear through battleships like tissue in Macross, but they at least usually have to put a lot of ordinance in to the effort (as in, lots of missiles most of the time; often nuclear ones) though, so it tends to make the ships at least superficially appear a bit tougher. ManSedan posted:The Wings of Light get retconned in the Crossbone manga to have been part of their motherships propulsion system, then in the Steel Seven follow up they use the WoL on a big flying wing type vessel to get from earth to Jupiter in a matter of days. Steel Seven also introduces the F99 Recordbreaker, testbed mobile suits equipped with the WoL. That retcon really makes no sense, given that the V2 is no faster than any of the other late game suits (like the Gottrlatan) and never appears to be even remotely Jupiter > Earth in a few months fast, never mind Jupiter > Earth in a few days fast. It'd be like a comic retconning luna titanium to be capable of withstanding a direct hit from a colony laser with no damage or something. tsob fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Mar 29, 2019 |
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Mar 29, 2019 12:13
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tsob posted:I kind of doubt it, simply because her existing character is basically just "childhood friend" and that's necessary to ground Amuro in civilian life, so they can't not make her the girl next door to start with. She could go through lots of development, but I doubt that will happen either, simply because she's just not that prominent a character and if any female character is likely to get focus and development it's far more likely to be Sayla. She's more central to the story as Char's sister, as well as to the action as a pilot. I imagine the film will go The Origin route by giving her a GM and a large role in the resolution of A Bao A Qu, by convincing the Zeon remnants to stand down. Well, presuming it goes that route, though I doubt it'll get to there until a third film. Still, even in the first some ground work could be laid as Char's sister and a pilot. I mean in terms of personality. Fraw Bow, the long-suffering girl who says Amuro a lot and brings him sandwiches and is immediately put in charge of the laundry and looking after the orphans on White Base, will not be in the movie. There might still be a character named Fraw Bow, and/or a character who fills her same role in the narrative. But the Fraw Bow from Mobile Suit Gundam will not be in the live action Gundam movie. I am 100% certain of that. Midjack posted:“Make Fraw Bow and Sayla the same character, she was secretly his neighbor all along” is how I expect that to go. I think that's too dumb of a coincidence. What they could do that would work better is combining Fraw and Kai into one character. Amuro's childhood frenemy.
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Mar 29, 2019 12:36
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I kind of doubt the orphans will even be in the movie. Or at least, if there's some really young orphans, they'll only appear once or twice for a minute or so at most. The TV show was able to get some mileage out of them and needed a character (Fraw in this case) to take care of them, but a movie won't really have that luxury. Especially if it's already expanding the role/development of other characters. Fraw might not be going around chasing after some toddlers and doing the laundry (did she even do that in Gundam? I honestly don't recall her doing so), but she'll probably still just be a relatively benign character maybe filling Sayla's early role of comms person in combat and trying to keep Amuro normal by reminding him to eat/sleep. Roles she already filled in the show at various points anyway.
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Mar 29, 2019 12:46
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Gripweed posted:I think that's too dumb of a coincidence. What they could do that would work better is combining Fraw and Kai into one character. Amuro's childhood frenemy. Writers adapting a work are absolutely willing to go that low-brow stupid without considering how it can it can break other parts of the story. Altered Carbon is a prime example of this from just last year.
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Mar 29, 2019 13:02
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Titans in 40K work because the setting is so batshit off its rocker that the lunatics living there just accepted war robots as a thing. The Tau, known mostly as the newcomers with a hint of common sense in the galaxy, think that all the talk of walking battle gods is ridiculous because nobody could be that stupid to try a walking tank. Then they face a titan in combat and they realize that they're not dealing with a rational enemy, and that the titans were shrugging off their giant gunships' weaponry. The Tau had to fight stupid to go at humanity on even terms, so they started building their own titans
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Mar 29, 2019 15:54
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If it works against more conventional arms then it's not really a case of "the lunatics just accepted it".
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Mar 29, 2019 16:07
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tsob posted:If it works against more conventional arms then it's not really a case of "the lunatics just accepted it". Giant robots in general are one of those things that sound stupid on paper and in terms of general maintenance, but when you've got one kicking your vehicles over and stomping down your fortifications just by walking over them (without even doing anything with its guns) the only real way to stop one cold and even the playing field is to build your own.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:13
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I hope you mean "in general within fiction", because it's certainly not going to be true in general. Most Gundams could probably be rendered worthless with one or two RPGs. Or even just a sufficiently well hidden or quickly deployed tripwire.
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Mar 29, 2019 17:49
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Gripweed posted:
I won’t like it either but it’s absolutely in line with Hollywood writing.
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Mar 29, 2019 18:47
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tsob posted:I hope you mean "in general within fiction", because it's certainly not going to be true in general. Most Gundams could probably be rendered worthless with one or two RPGs. Or even just a sufficiently well hidden or quickly deployed tripwire. There's a fight in Build Fighters that kinda shows this off, the opponent used all sorts of cool non-mech tactics to more or less wreck the protagonist until he hit the I Win button, it was pretty great.
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Mar 29, 2019 18:50
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Really though at least in the original series the idea was less that robots are the ultimate weapons and more that a tactically and strategically inflexible force is ill equipped to fight an enemy taking advantage of asymmetrical warfare in an environment that compliments their methods. In a setting with as many pseudo science caveats as Gundam, highly agile weapon platforms carrying guns that can kill battleships "makes sense" in the same way Viet Cong guerrillas or WW1 German stormtroopers made sense in their own conflicts. You either adapt to the new paradigm to counter it or you lose five billion people in a month.
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Mar 29, 2019 19:16
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Thinkin' 'bout that time in AGE when three old dudes used a jeep, a TOW launcher, and a home sprinkler system to take on a top-of-the-line mobile suit and won.
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Mar 29, 2019 19:27
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Arcsquad12 posted:In a setting with as many pseudo science caveats as Gundam, highly agile weapon platforms carrying guns that can kill battleships "makes sense" in the same way Viet Cong guerrillas or WW1 German stormtroopers made sense in their own conflicts. You either adapt to the new paradigm to counter it or you lose five billion people in a month. You don't even need that many caveats, aircraft carriers took over naval warfare for a reason. Imagine if you could retrofit all your destroyers and cruisers to launch VTOL fighters. The navy that ignores this and keeps truckin along in their Battleship Yamato fleets is gonna have a bad time.
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Mar 29, 2019 19:56
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Arcsquad12 posted:In a setting with as many pseudo science caveats as Gundam, highly agile weapon platforms carrying guns that can kill battleships "makes sense" in the same way Viet Cong guerrillas or WW1 German stormtroopers made sense in their own conflicts. You either adapt to the new paradigm to counter it or you lose five billion people in a month. Sure, the fiction part comes from the fact that making those weapon platforms human shaped is really effective and not just a liability. Even if we invented minovsky drives that were capable of powering gundams that work just like in the show, it would be more effective to just build super fighters/tanks/whatever. The limbs offer basically nothing and come with a ton of downsides and engineering compromises.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:01
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The “science” in UC for mobile suits is that in space their limbs let them change their momentum quickly in ways that you can’t if you are in a fighter plane shaped vehicle.
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Mar 29, 2019 20:04
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