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Chas McGill posted:I watched 0080 the other night and really enjoyed it for its grittiness, soundtrack, and realistic animation. Are there other Gundam films or series like it? (doesn't have to be Gundam I guess). 08th MS team has a similar grit and is quite well-animated, but the story isn't nearly as good as 0080 IMO, but it might be worth a try.
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Mar 31, 2019 00:05
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You could try 0083 because until Unibore came out, it had the most consistently well animated battles, but beware the terrible characters. Story is inspired by top gun (as in "squint your eyes") Also that time when Kou helped the zeon guy fix his mobile armor has unintentionally hilarious moments.
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Mar 31, 2019 01:12
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Kou/Keith is even a thing before Kelley shows up in the sexy mobile armor repair scene Gundam knows its audience
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Mar 31, 2019 01:16
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Mar 31, 2019 01:20
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Snake Maze posted:Sure, the fiction part comes from the fact that making those weapon platforms human shaped is really effective and not just a liability. Even if we invented minovsky drives that were capable of powering gundams that work just like in the show, it would be more effective to just build super fighters/tanks/whatever. The limbs offer basically nothing and come with a ton of downsides and engineering compromises. Honestly the only thing else I can see being built with the tech that isn't a full blown MA or actually an even worse idea than a giant robot, is a space gunship and that's basically just an MA lite and it would still have arms because colonies, and would honestly benefit from legs so it's not a giant target hovering in the center of a colony. I guess you could shove a fusion reactor in a plane or tank but I don't think you'll get any benefit from it.
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Mar 31, 2019 02:02
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I'm curious, has there ever been a mecha show where the main mecha is just a drone and the pilot is back at base? I know there's like Gigantor/Tetsujin or whatnot but I mean military drone style.
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Mar 31, 2019 02:33
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Real Gundams, but with the G trace system
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Mar 31, 2019 02:41
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Real Gundams, but with the G trace system I mean that's basically IBO.
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Mar 31, 2019 02:42
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CMD598 posted:Honestly the only thing else I can see being built with the tech that isn't a full blown MA or actually an even worse idea than a giant robot, is a space gunship and that's basically just an MA lite and it would still have arms because colonies, and would honestly benefit from legs so it's not a giant target hovering in the center of a colony. I guess you could shove a fusion reactor in a plane or tank but I don't think you'll get any benefit from it. Putting a fusion reactor in a humanoid shape has no benefit beyond powering it more efficiently and for longer than a lesser power source like a rocket engine either, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at here. Advantages a plane or tank would benefit from just as much as a mech. The Minovsky engine isn't what makes mechs useful in UC; it's the radar negation the particle has when spread in large quantities. Also, if you placed arms and legs on a colonial weapons platform it'd still be a giant target hovering in the colony anytime it jumped or "flew". Giving it limbs doesn't make it anything more than a slightly smaller central mass with limbs, at best. Which is assuming you can displace some of the central mass in to the limbs and that they won't be taken up entirely with whatever moves them.
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Mar 31, 2019 02:45
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ImpAtom posted:I'm curious, has there ever been a mecha show where the main mecha is just a drone and the pilot is back at base? I know there's like Gigantor/Tetsujin or whatnot but I mean military drone style. Build Fighters 
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Mar 31, 2019 02:46
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It really still surprises me that Gundam as a franchise hasn't revisited the automisation of war since like, Wing (outside of maybe the Hashmal in IBO, that was a legitimately scary and cool concept) cause you'd think drone strikes would be a hot from the press kinda concept to spin something out of
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Mar 31, 2019 02:50
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The A-Laws used drones in the first episode of season two of 00; they were man sized drones though, and while they were portrayed as effective in their role of infiltrating and suppressing civilian areas, the concept was never taken further within the setting for some reason.
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Mar 31, 2019 02:52
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tsob posted:Putting a fusion reactor in a humanoid shape has no benefit beyond powering it more efficiently and for longer than a lesser power source like a rocket engine either, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at here. Advantages a plane or tank would benefit from just as much as a mech. The Minovsky engine isn't what makes mechs useful in UC; it's the radar negation the particle has when spread in large quantities. Also, if you placed arms and legs on a colonial weapons platform it'd still be a giant target hovering in the colony anytime it jumped or "flew". Giving it limbs doesn't make it anything more than a slightly smaller central mass with limbs, at best. Which is assuming you can displace some of the central mass in to the limbs and that they won't be taken up entirely with whatever moves them. The point is what are you actually going to do with that fusion reactor to justify putting it in a conventional vehicle and/or what are you actually getting out of it? Also the reactor essentially has nothing to do with propulsion, zakus just use basic rocket engines. That aside the arms are for opening doors, nothing fancy and you could literally just have single Ball's arm, but the legs are would be beneficial in that you aren't solely limited to just hovering in the center of a colony to avoid burning all your fuel near the surface(where gravity is) for example MSG ep1 where some zakus just walk in and hang out in the woods to recon the place.
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Mar 31, 2019 03:01
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CMD598 posted:The point is what are you actually going to do with that fusion reactor to justify putting it in a conventional vehicle and/or what are you actually getting out of it? How is that a significantly different question? What you're getting out of a it by putting a fusion reactor in a plane or tank is going to be the same as you get out of it by putting one in a mech: a better power source that lasts longer and gives you more energy. CMD598 posted:That aside the arms are for opening doors, nothing fancy and you could literally just have single Ball's arm You wouldn't even need that, at least not permanently visibly, since you could just have a retractable arm that exists solely to grab simple shapes if that's the only reason for one. Really, with modern conventions you could probably achieve it with a signal instead of a physical object in a lot of cases. CMD598 posted:but the legs are would be beneficial in that you aren't solely limited to just hovering in the center of a colony to avoid burning all your fuel near the surface(where gravity is) for example MSG ep1 where some zakus just walk in and hang out in the woods to recon the place. Wheels and treads could do that job just as well as legs when it comes to the surface, and a mech is still going to be burning fuel to stay in the air near a colonies center regardless of whether it has legs or not.
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Mar 31, 2019 03:11
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tsob posted:How is that a significantly different question? What you're getting out of a it by putting a fusion reactor in a plane or tank is going to be the same as you get out of it by putting one in a mech: a better power source that lasts longer and gives you more energy. Yeah but for what? Just shoving a reactor does nothing but eliminate the need for external power in the hangar you need to have some idea of what it's going to be to examine whether or not it's actually better than a machine with a tank sized assault rifle as it's lightest armament that can function in every environment except the sun and deep ocean. quote:You wouldn't even need that, at least not permanently visibly, since you could just have a retractable arm that exists solely to grab simple shapes if that's the only reason for one. Really, with modern conventions you could probably achieve it with a signal instead of a physical object in a lot of cases. Of course, however I would assume minovsky interference would be an issue for signals or the signal would increase detection chances. quote:Wheels and treads could do that job just as well as legs when it comes to the surface, and a mech is still going to be burning fuel to stay in the air near a colonies center regardless of whether it has legs or not. Yes but all this really depends on how you view the function of said hypothetical vehicle. As is it's perfectly functional I just don't see it as all that great compared to what's already there.
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Mar 31, 2019 03:38
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chumbler posted:God drat I wish that they had ported Gundam Vs to PC. Instead we got Gundam Breaker which was apparently very bad. Gundam Versus is kind of the New Gundam Breaker of the EXVS franchise. It was received extremely badly in Japan due to some very unpopular system changes/weird roster choices and mostly dropped off a cliff there, with many of the popular video makers/streamers either going back to Full Boost for the PS3 or simply focusing all of their time/effort on Maxi Boost On/EXVS2 in the arcade. IIRC the game had dropped to like 80% off on Amazon.jp in under two months because nobody wanted it. It never garnered much of a western audience either, in part because the existing fanbase here was vanishingly tiny so it needed a lot of new blood to prosper but the barrier to entry is a vertical wall if you're not willing to get your head kicked in a lot. Kanos fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Mar 31, 2019 |
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Mar 31, 2019 04:35
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I played a lot of EXVS and Full Boost and Gundam Versus was just... weird. And it didn't keep me hooked on the stuff despite how I was playing the predecessor online for literal years. Versus kinda screamed "well, we don't want to give you Maxi Boost but c'mon, it's just as good!" and most people caught on to Bamco's grift pretty quickly
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Mar 31, 2019 06:30
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MechaX posted:I played a lot of EXVS and Full Boost and Gundam Versus was just... weird. And it didn't keep me hooked on the stuff despite how I was playing the predecessor online for literal years. I got the worst of both worlds; I went extremely hard into GVS because I really wanted it to succeed - bought a ton of DLC, played it for hundreds of hours - but grew more sour and disillusioned with it the more I played it and my friends dropped off of it. We tried to go back to playing Full Boost, which is generally a much better game, but GVS's stable framerate and much better netcode made going back very rough so it never took off again.
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Mar 31, 2019 06:36
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Kanos posted:Gundam Versus is kind of the New Gundam Breaker of the EXVS franchise. It was received extremely badly in Japan due to some very unpopular system changes/weird roster choices and mostly dropped off a cliff there, with many of the popular video makers/streamers either going back to Full Boost for the PS3 or simply focusing all of their time/effort on Maxi Boost On/EXVS2 in the arcade. IIRC the game had dropped to like 80% off on Amazon.jp in under two months because nobody wanted it. Yeah when I visited Japan literally every Arcade had either MB or much more commonly EXVS2 and mostly on the smoking floor too 
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Mar 31, 2019 08:22
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Chas McGill posted:I watched 0080 the other night and really enjoyed it for its grittiness, soundtrack, and realistic animation. Are there other Gundam films or series like it? (doesn't have to be Gundam I guess). If you want grit, a great soundtrack, and serious consideration of Mobile Suits as practical objects, Iron Blooded Orphans might be worth a look. The animation isn't always up to OVA standards, but it's a fine source of horrible things happening to children, harsh grit, and giant robots. It's a full length series, though, so it's a bit more of a commitment. Still, it does things no other Gundam show has done, and overall it's pretty good. One of my top three, although I understand other people not giving it the same rank. Edit: There's also Thunderbolt, of course. It's not a favorite of mine, but if you want mechanical detail, grit, and jazz, it has you covered. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Mar 31, 2019 |
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Mar 31, 2019 10:19
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chiasaur11 posted:If you want grit, a great soundtrack, and serious consideration of Mobile Suits as practical objects, Iron Blooded Orphans might be worth a look. The animation isn't always up to OVA standards, but it's a fine source of horrible things happening to children, harsh grit, and giant robots. One of the two main protagonist's names is practically a verb with a definition of "died very horribly, very quickly".
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Mar 31, 2019 10:53
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On a different note, one with somewhat fewer people dying in a spectacularly brutal fashion, I finally read a couple of Gundam manga I've been meaning to get to for ages. We're Federation Hooligans has a great back of the box pitch, a military comedy about a Federation aggressor squad. And for the first act, it lives up to the part, even if not all the jokes land and the action sequences try to be more dramatic. We follow a Canadian ace pilot and ex-boxer known for managing to bring his GMs home... but not anywhere near in one piece, as he gets recruited to pilot a GM striker for the rude, crude, and immensely talented Nemesis team. There's a lot of lowbrow humor like you'd expect in the genre, including a sequence where the team leader sets up everyone else to almost defeat a Zock so he can rush in, steal the glory, and impress a girl he met at a bar... which leads to him getting explosive diarrhea when she encourages him to have a celebratory meal. But then, about halfway into book two, that just kind of stops for a switch to a more conventional military conspiracy thing. There's treason, Federation brass up to no good, massive carnage, the usual. (Oh, and someone Scooby-Dooing as the ghost of Garma Zabi, like you do.) The comedy goes way down, to the point that, by late on, there was a lot more goofiness in Johnny Ridden. And considering Johnny Ridden did the conspiracies way better too, that's kind of an awkward place to be, especially with dime store Yazan as one of the villains. I'm not saying it was terrible or anything, but if you're going to do that, at least give me the Aggressor Team doing Aggressor Team things first, you know? Show me some dirty tactics with no stakes except spiting those assholes from Torington, instead of having to figure out which interchangeable general did which part of what crime. (It also made me wonder what kind of restrictions Gundam Ace puts on writers over use of characters. Where Johnny Ridden has a lot of old characters show up, eventually including CHAR doing CHAR things to set up him dropping an asteroid on Earth, the scamp, here everybody who actually was on screen seemed to be exclusive to this. Made things feel a lot more isolated.) Fortunately, Developers: Mobile Suit Gundam Before One Year War actually did what it said it would do. A fun little story about plucky engineers trying to make a Zaku. It's just kind of awkward that the product these nice people built and used to keep cows from running away would eventually be deployed to murder millions with nerve gas. But hey. It's the Zaku. Despite all the times they're used for war crimes, it's still basically lovable. And it's nice to have a story that doesn't turn into horrifying atrocities while we're reading it, if only as a change of pace.
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Mar 31, 2019 12:20
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The Plot to Assassinate Gihren Zabie remains the best Gundam manga.
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Mar 31, 2019 15:35
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MonsieurChoc posted:The Plot to Assassinate Gihren Zabie remains the best Gundam manga. That one's super good. I have little manga knowledge (that and pre-Ghost Crossbone) but I definitely enjoyed it a lot.
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Mar 31, 2019 16:04
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Kanos posted:It never garnered much of a western audience either, in part because the existing fanbase here was vanishingly tiny so it needed a lot of new blood to prosper but the barrier to entry is a vertical wall if you're not willing to get your head kicked in a lot. Note: the barrier to entry ime was gameplay, not community. Nearly every Vs player I met was super friendly and helpful and desperate to grow the playerbase. There was maybe one grognard who punished newbies and everyone else hated him. Whoever was running things at Bandai seriously let down the fans there. They apparently pissed off the fighting game community too because the licensing and DLC model made tournament play nearly impossible.
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Mar 31, 2019 16:17
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Marx Headroom posted:Note: the barrier to entry ime was gameplay, not community. Nearly every Vs player I met was super friendly and helpful and desperate to grow the playerbase. There was maybe one grognard who punished newbies and everyone else hated him. They really made some missteps a few years ago and they did the same thing to both Gundam Versus and Gundam Breaker: take a proven successful formula and then make a bunch of puzzling changes that nobody asked for which made the games plainly worse. Then release it in English along with Extreme VS Force, which was another head-scratcher of a release. So I guess Dynasty Warriors Gundam will remain the only series to avoid the North American Gundam game curse.
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Mar 31, 2019 17:02
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https://twitter.com/SpaceBoy_001/status/1112369135466381312 GOD drat YOU APRIL FOOL'S
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Mar 31, 2019 17:16
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Gripweed posted:I don't remember where it was, but at one point in some Gundam series a rookie pilot tries to pick up a rifle and is fumbling it and someone yells "let the computer do it!" It's from F91! I only know this because I just watched it for the first time yesterday 
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Mar 31, 2019 18:32
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I wanted to like Gundam Versus, but I never could really get how to play. Then I read somewhere that you might as well not use low-value suits because they were crap (and most of my favorite suits were low value), so it sits on my PS4 generally unplayed. A shame, really.
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Mar 31, 2019 18:45
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CMD598 posted:You need to have some idea of what it's going to be to examine whether or not it's actually better than a machine with a tank sized assault rifle as it's lightest armament that can function in every environment except the sun and deep ocean. What you're asking is what the limits and capabilities of a platform would be, then. Which has almost nothing to do with the value of putting the best physically and commercially viable power source in said platform, because people will almost always use the latest physically and commercially viable power source for something. Which Minovsky reactors in UC are. They're obviously not super rare or unfeasibly expensive for military platforms, because they're in use in lots of units. Mobile suits, mobile armor, mobile pods (the Ball) and battleships all use them at the very least. The core fighter probably uses one too, since it's listed as using a "fusion generator" and forms the core of the Gundam. We never see the listed power sources for more minor units like Gaws, Dopps, Saberfish etc. but it's not unreasonable that they mount Minovsky reactors either, given that they can be fitted in smallish units like Balls and probably core fighters. This question also applies to actual mechs as much as other platforms, considering that the original discussion was on the feasibility of creating mechs using that kind of technology if it existed in the real world. The capabilities of mechs in the real world would need to be examined to see whether it was worth giving them a fusion engine if we had access to one and the likelihood is they're not. CMD598 posted:Of course, however I would assume minovsky interference would be an issue for signals or the signal would increase detection chances. Minovsky interference is generally only an issue in combat, because it has to be deliberately spread in denser amounts than they naturally clump in to block communications. These dense amounts then drift apart relatively quickly over time. Military units won't generally be doing things like opening doors mid-combat so it's not generally going to be an issue. Line of sight communications methods like laser or touch based communications like vibration aren't affected by Minovsky interference either, so you could use them regardless. These methods are also generally not going to stand out because they're so direct, and so wouldn't make a unit extra detectable. CMD598 posted:Yes but all this really depends on how you view the function of said hypothetical vehicle. As is it's perfectly functional I just don't see it as all that great compared to what's already there. It's perfectly functional in fiction; which isn't to say it'd be perfectly functional in reality. tsob fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Mar 31, 2019 |
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Mar 31, 2019 19:21
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Airspace posted:I wanted to like Gundam Versus, but I never could really get how to play. Then I read somewhere that you might as well not use low-value suits because they were crap (and most of my favorite suits were low value), so it sits on my PS4 generally unplayed. Whoever said that is an idiot
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Mar 31, 2019 21:57
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Yeah, isn't the point of low-value suits that you get more respawns with them cos they take up less of the team bar when they blow up? So the guy with the Strike Freedom gets one chance but the guy in the Gundam Mk.II gets 4 or whatever?
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Mar 31, 2019 22:08
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Plus, a lot of back suits are inherently lower cost, so preferably you have the front die first, the back can then die once or twice before the front is free to die again. Of course sometimes you have the back die first but https://twitter.com/HellaBrett/status/1107781311400300544
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Mar 31, 2019 22:19
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EthanSteele posted:Yeah, isn't the point of low-value suits that you get more respawns with them cos they take up less of the team bar when they blow up? So the guy with the Strike Freedom gets one chance but the guy in the Gundam Mk.II gets 4 or whatever? That’s the theory anyway.
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Mar 31, 2019 22:20
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tsob posted:What you're asking is what the limits and capabilities of a platform would be, then. Which has almost nothing to do with the value of putting the best physically and commercially viable power source in said platform, because people will almost always use the latest physically and commercially viable power source for something. Which Minovsky reactors in UC are. They're obviously not super rare or unfeasibly expensive for military platforms, because they're in use in lots of units. Mobile suits, mobile armor, mobile pods (the Ball) and battleships all use them at the very least. The core fighter probably uses one too, since it's listed as using a "fusion generator" and forms the core of the Gundam. We never see the listed power sources for more minor units like Gaws, Dopps, Saberfish etc. but it's not unreasonable that they mount Minovsky reactors either, given that they can be fitted in smallish units like Balls and probably core fighters. UC is low key tremendously advanced in a lot of technological fields, but in what may be a stroke of realism, everyone's bored with that so instead they focus on murdering the enemy and torturing children!
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Mar 31, 2019 22:26
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MonsieurChoc posted:The Plot to Assassinate Gihren Zabie remains the best Gundam manga. I'd say the Origin is another contender, but yeah. The Plot to Assassinate Gihren is really up there. The Return of Johnny Ridden is by the same team, and while it spends more time on big MS fights, it keeps a lot of the things that made Plot work. I'd say it's definitely worth a look. Nessus posted:Yeah, fusion power seems as cheap and ubiquitous in the UC setting as gas engines are nowadays, if not more so. And Post Disaster is arguably the most advanced of all Gundam settings, leaving them with the most time to come up with creative ways to make children suffer. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Mar 31, 2019 |
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Mar 31, 2019 22:29
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Weren't 200 cost suits also generally faster or had better boost efficiency or something, or did I just imagine that?
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Mar 31, 2019 23:12
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EthanSteele posted:Yeah, isn't the point of low-value suits that you get more respawns with them cos they take up less of the team bar when they blow up? So the guy with the Strike Freedom gets one chance but the guy in the Gundam Mk.II gets 4 or whatever? They both draw from the same HP pool, so the idea is you put a large chunk of your points into a powerful front suit that plays aggressively, and you take a relatively cheap back suit whose only job is staying alive and providing support for the front suit, so that the front suit gets to respawn with full health if it dies (instead of "overcosting" and coming back with a partial HP bar). Low-cost suits are deliberately not as powerful as high-cost suits, but the game is built around the cost and power discrepancy and both are absolutely vital.
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Mar 31, 2019 23:17
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Never stop using a Gouf, you gosh darned morons
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Mar 31, 2019 23:46
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tsob posted:What you're asking is what the limits and capabilities of a platform would be, then. Which has almost nothing to do with the value of putting the best physically and commercially viable power source in said platform, because people will almost always use the latest physically and commercially viable power source for something. Which Minovsky reactors in UC are. They're obviously not super rare or unfeasibly expensive for military platforms, because they're in use in lots of units. Mobile suits, mobile armor, mobile pods (the Ball) and battleships all use them at the very least. That's great but also mostly irrelevant to the discussion of using Ms tech for conventional vehicles. That you can has never been in question, how it would improve things is. quote:The core fighter probably uses one too, since it's listed as using a "fusion generator" and forms the core of the Gundam. We never see the listed power sources for more minor units like Gaws, Dopps, Saberfish etc. but it's not unreasonable that they mount Minovsky reactors either, given that they can be fitted in smallish units like Balls and probably core fighters. I can't seem to find any indication that the core fighter has a reactor, which given its uselessly tiny size is unsurprising, the Gundam would no doubt require a beefier power plant than most MS. The core booster on the other hand does have a reactor and a pair of mega particle cannons which apparently wasn't a feature worth keeping for the jet core boosters. (Not that they were worth keeping either given the Sabrefish in Zeta and Unicorn) quote:This question also applies to actual mechs as much as other platforms, considering that the original discussion was on the feasibility of creating mechs using that kind of technology if it existed in the real world. The capabilities of mechs in the real world would need to be examined to see whether it was worth giving them a fusion engine if we had access to one and the likelihood is they're not. Well of course we wouldn't build mobile suits, we're not rebuilding our military to 70s standards to combat ecm particles in preparation for the the first space war after like a century of unified peace because we have nothing in space and we've been fighting ground wars for 30 years. So no we won't build a space vehicle to invade with. It's perfectly functional in fiction; which isn't to say it'd be perfectly functional in reality. [/quote]
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Apr 1, 2019 01:38
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