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Choosing the lesser evil is not a strategy. It’s not something you plan. It’s what you do when you have a multiple choice question where all the answers suck. The reason it’s important in politics is that it is better than not choosing.
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Apr 2, 2019 03:58
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PT6A posted:The thing you appear to be missing is that literally no one in this thread has suggested Biden would be a good candidate. Again it's like I am being wilfully misinterpreted. I haven't implied that anyone was here arguing that Biden was "good"- I have specifically attacked the ideology of lesser-evilism that has long dominated democratic strategy.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:00
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Eyes and noses on the prizes taxes: https://i.imgur.com/6IGY2FB.mp4 From the cute thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3769444 Edit: For cuter URL. Otteration fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Apr 2, 2019 |
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Apr 2, 2019 04:02
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Jealous Cow posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1112900816371900418 lol how many people do you think actually like their health insurance? I think sub-10% is a very safe bet.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:03
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Prester Jane posted:Again it's like I am being wilfully misinterpreted. I haven't implied that anyone was here arguing that Biden was "good"- I have specifically attacked the ideology of lesser-evilism that has long dominated democratic strategy. You only think that because you’ve never voted in or worked on a primary election
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Apr 2, 2019 04:06
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Nonsense posted:The president is currently ranting puerto rico got more money than any other place in history. What, that "place"?
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Apr 2, 2019 04:06
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Prester Jane posted:It's like I am being wilfully misinterpreted. Its not about one side being more or less evil than the other- its about refusing to fight for good things because accepting less-evil things is easier/safer. Defeat them! Defeat the argument you're having in your head!
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Apr 2, 2019 04:08
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Sorry guys I'm not good at all this technical stuff: what does "premiums" mean?
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Apr 2, 2019 04:08
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Let me tell you, my private insurance told me they weren't going to pay for my wife's Physical Therapy because it was only decreasing her pain level and not permanently curing her, and suggested we try useless home exercise instead. I really respected and loved them for that.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:09
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Stereotype posted:You only think that because you’ve never voted in or worked on a primary election Gone knocking doors with my underdog pro-union democratic candidate who was unpopular with the party. (He won.) Try again please. Also- please try addressing the actual substance of my argumentc instead of finding an excuse to dismiss my opinion with a handwave.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:09
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1112906931868520452?s=21
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Apr 2, 2019 04:10
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Prester Jane posted:Also- please try addressing the actual substance of my argumentc instead of finding an excuse to dismiss my opinion with a handwave. As far as I know, he literally has no supporters in the thread. I haven't seen a single poster come out in support of him as their favorite candidate, ever.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:10
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theflyingorc posted:Nobody is saying that we have to pick Joe Biden I shook his hand once. Would still rather vote for Warren.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:12
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/boingboing.net/2019/04/01/antiantifa-not-a-thing.html/amp the cover of this VERY REAL report by law enforcement. You can still see the swastika on the "Anti-Antifa" flag
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Apr 2, 2019 04:13
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theflyingorc posted:Nobody is saying that we have to pick Joe Biden I've openly come out in support of fundraising whatever amount it takes to literally chain biden to ryan for the rest of both of their lvies so he can dunk on him non-stop and they can deal with eachother
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Apr 2, 2019 04:14
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Pakled posted:lol how many people do you think actually like their health insurance? I think sub-10% is a very safe bet. Actually, this is a huge part of the problem, many many people like their health care and are afraid they'll lose it in whatever changeover. They're irrational and ignorant, but it still drives the health care debate.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:16
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"Republicans will always support Pre-Existing Conditions." "The Republican Party will be known as the Party of Great HealtCare." HealtCare. HealtCare .HealtCare. HealtCare .HealtCare. HealtCare! "Meantime, the USA is doing better than ever & is respected again!" The spring is sprung.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:18
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Prester Jane posted:
Voters of the Democratic part probably don't pick their candidates because they are lesser or evil or even electaability. Shockingly, voters might like said candidate and policies. Saying we are sliding to fascism because of lesser evil voting seems dubious because all one has to do is look 2016. If you truly believe that HRC was evil but the lesser of evil (which is a whole other can of worms) but literally her being President would of been 1000x better for this country and not being fascist then electing a proto-fascist and giving them the keys to kingdom. But since you lay this at the lesser of evil voting, can you give a specific example of what you are talking about, instead of talking in code?
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Apr 2, 2019 04:18
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pseudanonymous posted:Actually, this is a huge part of the problem, many many people like their health care and are afraid they'll lose it in whatever changeover. They're irrational and ignorant, but it still drives the health care debate. Health care, sure, I get that people like their primary care doctor or local hospital, but how many people like their health insurance?
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Apr 2, 2019 04:18
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pseudanonymous posted:Actually, this is a huge part of the problem, many many people like their health care and are afraid they'll lose it in whatever changeover. They're irrational and ignorant, but it still drives the health care debate. It's not so much that they LIKE it - I maintain that any real contact with your health insurance is going to make you feel miserable - it's that they're scared to drop it. A bunch of people also are mentally invested in "I DONT GET PAID AS MUCH HERE, BUT THE BENEFITS ARE REALLY GOOD", and if you give them UHC, they'll lose a benefit at work. (the company should pay them more to compensate)
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Apr 2, 2019 04:18
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Okay finePrester Jane posted:Again it's like I am being wilfully misinterpreted. I haven't implied that anyone was here arguing that Biden was "good"- I have specifically attacked the ideology of lesser-evilism that has long dominated democratic strategy. Demonstrate to me how lesser-evilism has "long dominated" the ideology of the democratic party in primaries. I honestly cannot ever remember people bitching about having to choose the "lesser evil" in a primary election. Most primaries are pretty pathetic and lots of liberals have been apathetic or content for a long time so they didn't bother running, but it wasn't a party platform for gosh sakes. In the general sure, you have to choose the lesser evil, but that is because one party is evil and one is not.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:25
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Trump continues to whine that Puerto Rico is getting too much relief money: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1112910106004504576 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1112915488424816640
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Apr 2, 2019 04:26
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I'll be damned. Trump really wants to run for re-election on "get rid of Obamacare and then elect us so we can put in a secret healthcare plan we totally have already worked out but you can't see." Like during the debates he's actually going to be asked "What's your healthcare plan" and answer "If I tell you the Democrats will steal it." Again. Quick! Someone ask him to expand on what he means by "support pre-existing conditions"! Because I have a 20 that says he has no idea what that phrase refers to.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:27
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DaveWoo posted:Trump continues to whine that Puerto Rico is getting too much relief money: its super weird that he puts "place" in quotes like that. Like he might think Puerto Rico isn't even real so he can't call it a place without the quotes.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:27
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Stereotype posted:its super weird that he puts "place" in quotes like that. Like he might think Puerto Rico isn't even real so he can't call it a place without the quotes. Generously I imagine he wanted to say "state" but then he realized it isn't actually a "state" but he couldn't figure out a more intelligent way to say "US territory" or something. But he might think its one of those Mexican countries Fox News talks about.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:30
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Mooseontheloose posted:ji Please listen to what I am specifically saying in these posts- I haven't addressed Democratic voters outside of arguing that lesser-evilism cannot unite enough regular people to create a community that changes politics. (And that is demonstrably true and we have a very recent example that makes this case plainly). Please parse what I am saying catefully- it is entirely irrelevant to my argument whether or not Hillary would have been a better President than Trump. What I am arguing is that Hillary's embrace of lesser-evilism made her defeat effectively inevitable because it massively depresses support for her among regular (not necessarily woke or democratic) voters. Lesser-evilism is a slippery slope that always ends in fascism- because it makes true resistance to fascism impossible.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:30
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I love it when the leader of my country is constantly bad mouthing the various parts of it he doesn't like.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:31
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Mueller washing his hands of this poo poo really put a new wind in Trump’s sails Jesus Christ.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:31
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theflyingorc posted:It's not so much that they LIKE it - I maintain that any real contact with your health insurance is going to make you feel miserable - it's that they're scared to drop it. A bunch of people also are mentally invested in "I DONT GET PAID AS MUCH HERE, BUT THE BENEFITS ARE REALLY GOOD", and if you give them UHC, they'll lose a benefit at work. For most people, the most memorable experience of 'changing healthcare' is when they got fired/switched jobs/had their benefits changed and either they had to change all their doctors or suddenly had a huge jump in premiums/deductibles, etc. Very few people are really happy, but lots of them have had experience with being hosed over by changes, so any indication of change makes them anxious because by now they're conditioned to (correctly) anticipate it means they're going to get hosed one way or another. So you have to work extra hard to break that assumption and convince people that it's actually possible for for a change to make things improve.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:33
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Haha, "Republicans support pre-existing conditions."
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Apr 2, 2019 04:33
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It's me, I'm the one saying you Must Pick Joe! actually I said he was destined to be an also-ran it he ever bothered to declare
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Apr 2, 2019 04:36
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Stereotype posted:Okay fine The majority of the pro-Hillary arguments in the 2016 primaries were premised on the idea that although she was far to the right of Bernie- progressives needed to support her because she was more "electable" than Bernie and no matter how bad she was on a given issue she was worlds better than Trump. Lesser-evilism was imo the bedrock of Hillary's campaign both during the general and the primaries.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:36
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Z. Autobahn posted:The thing about Biden is I think if he could win the primary, he could win the general, because all of the issues with him are the ones that most matter to various Dem voters. Except there will be more and more poo poo like this coming out and depressing dem turnout. The only people hyped about Biden are centrists and idiots who think the Biden jokes are real. No he's not as bad as Trump but "less bad" and "not Trump" aren't strong motivators. Both of those were there in 2016 and we still lost. The right may not care about sex pests but the left does.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:38
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Prester Jane posted:Hillary Clinton failed because she was an uninspiring corporate technocrat of the exact variety that inevitably rises to power when an institution embraces lesser-evilism. Hillary campaigned to become CEO of American International Interests LLC, not to become leader of the free world. Hillary's entire approach to campaigning was lesser-evilism personified- and the American people did not respond to that strategy. ...candidates don't vote for the lesser evil. Voters do. Every word of this is gibberish because you don't understand the terms Prester Jane posted:The majority of the pro-Hillary arguments in the 2016 primaries were premised on the idea that although she was far to the right of Bernie- progressives needed to support her because she was more "electable" than Bernie and no matter how bad she was on a given issue she was worlds better than Trump.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:39
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We'd probably be better off with Dean instead of Kerry and electability was a big part of that primary. But The Scream was really weird. Mostly I think it's just the ghost of McGovern though.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:41
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Prester Jane posted:Again it's like I am being wilfully misinterpreted. I haven't implied that anyone was here arguing that Biden was "good"- I have specifically attacked the ideology of lesser-evilism that has long dominated democratic strategy. For someone complaining about being willfully misinterpreted, you sure were eager to quote and respond to my post with something you now claim is completely unrelated. It seems like we both feel misinterpreted and attacked, and I don't think you're wrong, it just seems like the thing you're attacking is something I never mentioned in the first place.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:49
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RandomBlue posted:Except there will be more and more poo poo like this coming out and depressing dem turnout. The only people hyped about Biden are centrists and idiots who think the Biden jokes are real. Er, maybe my post was badly worded, but that's exactly what I'm saying. All of Biden's problems are problems that affect the left, from his creepiness with women, his racist history, or being a pathetic corporate stooge. The only way he can win the primary is if these issues somehow are not a deterrent for Democrats, in which case he'll be fine in the general (but they ARE a deterrent for Democrats, which is why he's going to lose the primary)
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Apr 2, 2019 04:50
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Biden is a likeable guy who represents a return to Obama-era politics, an attractive prospect to a lot of people. This “handsy” stuff should sink him and even outside of that, god knows I don’t want him to be he nominee, but it’s not as if his appeal is a complete mystery.
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Apr 2, 2019 04:51
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Comrade Fakename posted:Biden is a likeable guy who represents a return to Obama-era politics, an attractive prospect to a lot of people. His Secretary of State... can't quite remember her name, but I'm pretty sure she ran for president at one point and it didn't work out so well. Why do people assume Biden would be different?
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Apr 2, 2019 04:52
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What I wanna know is why people are just now talking about Biden. We've known he was really weird with women even back when he was VP. Why is it a surprise now?
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Apr 2, 2019 05:03
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