|
simplefish posted:Hi friends, what's new in Trek Town? The Federation elected a Ferengi as president and now he wants to build a wall on the Klingon border. Bigly.
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 11:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 21:40 |
|
|
Drone posted:The Federation elected a Ferengi as president and now he wants to build a wall on the Klingon border. Bigly. That sounds poo poo. Is this in Grimdark Trek or something?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 11:26
|
|
|
Drone posted:The Federation elected a Ferengi as president and now he wants to build a wall on the Klingon border. Bigly. President Rom would unironically be remembered as the greatest president since president Red Foreman or something
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 12:14
|
|
|
Agnosticnixie posted:President Rom would unironically be remembered as the greatest president since president Red Foreman or something Unironically this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 14:54
|
|
|
The Federation can be in a funny place given simply being a (mostly) good faith actor in intergalactic politics basically confuses the hell out of a lot of cultures. Worf is pretty much already a kingmaker even before he transfers to DS9, and before that Picard is regarded throughout the quadrants as a man of stoic justice and fairness. Funny thing is that Jadzia was originally the Spock figure of DS9, and grew into being a rounded party girl implicitly from Dax's influence. I get the impression that from what we hear of pre-Symbiote Jadzia, she was a lot more Spock-like before the symbiote, which gave her the confidence to loosen up. (while retaining a genius intellect)
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 15:00
|
|
|
Was Gowron always as much of an incompetent a-hole as he is in these final episodes?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 17:08
|
|
|
Hey, Gowron's just thinking big picture! The war's basically won at that point, so why not start planning for the aftermath by making sure your rivals don't make it back home?
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 17:20
|
|
|
The Alliance was getting their rear end kicked by the Breen at this point.
Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Apr 5, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 17:31
|
|
|
Nodosaur posted:Was Gowron always as much of an incompetent a-hole as he is in these final episodes? No, he was being super-dumb because he felt threatened by Martok's popularity with the people for his accomplishments in the war. So dumb that he even intentionally started doing things wrong in the hope he could pin the screw-ups to Martok. Being that selfish, at a critical point in the war, well. It pretty much erased his 'usually a pretty sensible dude' reserves with everybody else.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 17:42
|
|
|
Gowron was the Klingon version of a compromise candidate for the chancellorship, being that Worf killed the other candidate in ritual combat. Gowron is a ruthless political operator but is usually good compared to the evil traitorous assholes who are challenging him for leadership.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 17:51
|
|
|
Gowron is a very insecure leader. In TNG he’s repeatedly challenged in one way or another for primacy over the empire — by Duras, by Lursa and Betor, by Kloneless. His attack on the Cardies is like realpolitik 101: he gets to gain reputation as a badass warrior leader while getting rid of foreign influence in his government (Mogh clan). But he doesn’t want to actually do the warrior poo poo so he delegates it to Martok, with the predictable result that Martok unintentionally becomes a rival to him.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 18:03
|
|
|
I also figure the cardassian-klingon war is a good way to figure out which of the houses are politically reliable in the first place (also which are dumb enough to go after the federation instead of Cardassia) Also I just realized the only way DS9's political map makes sense is if the cardassians and the breen's borders are either above or below the big three because they literally all seem to have a common border with both, which if it's intentional is actually kinda clever worldbuilding for a space show since usually the first impulse is to treat anything outside the galactic core as literally a flat disk.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 18:09
|
|
|
Agnosticnixie posted:I also figure the cardassian-klingon war is a good way to figure out which of the houses are politically reliable in the first place (also which are dumb enough to go after the federation instead of Cardassia) Trek always depicts the galaxy as 2D. It looks like they finally settled on a map over the years with Earth being in the middle of Alpha/Beta, Klingons and Roms in Beta, and Cardassians/Breen/Ferengi in Alpha. It's pretty dumb since the Galaxy is loving huge and actual empires that size even with warp speeds make no sense when you take into account top speed flying from Voyager start point/Bajor Wormhole end point to back to Earth is like 70-80 years,
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 18:39
|
|
|
jeeves posted:Trek always depicts the galaxy as 2D. It looks like they finally settled on a map over the years with Earth being in the middle of Alpha/Beta, Klingons and Roms in Beta, and Cardassians/Breen/Ferengi in Alpha. You have to make up headcanon to have it make sense, like some way to prevent other factions from just teleporting their ships into your flat plane of space (that you can somehow draw map borders for). Or better yet, not think too hard about it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
I always hated "so-and-so's space." Defend a planet, that's your planet. Be able to keep people out of a system, that's your system. But are you really policing interstellar space? Nothing's there! Maybe if tradelanes were a thing, but that seems like it would go out with warp drive.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 18:48
|
|
|
Brawnfire posted:I always hated "so-and-so's space." Defend a planet, that's your planet. Be able to keep people out of a system, that's your system. But are you really policing interstellar space? Nothing's there! Maybe if tradelanes were a thing, but that seems like it would go out with warp drive. I could see borders forming in interstellar space for the purpose of national security. "No, Mister Federation President, all those warbirds three lightyears away from Earth are just conducting military exercises, it's not an invasion fleet."
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 18:53
|
|
|
jeeves posted:Trek always depicts the galaxy as 2D. It looks like they finally settled on a map over the years with Earth being in the middle of Alpha/Beta, Klingons and Roms in Beta, and Cardassians/Breen/Ferengi in Alpha. The thing is pretty much every map that exists outside of STO's is basically fanon iirc (and STO's makes as little sense as fanon flat space maps if you pay too much attention to DS9's description of borders) Also I just generally assume that pretty much nothing of importance is in interstellar space (besides like Bond villain type lairs) so nobody actually gives a gently caress, it's just systems. Also if you just move it one light year further you have a star system where it's probably easier to find places to base. Like even without accounting for every lovely red dwarf it's probably easy to find a star system just a few days' warp from any remotely strategic objective. Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Apr 5, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 18:54
|
|
|
The thing that always got me is I have no idea if a sector is supposed to be big or small
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 18:56
|
|
|
Yeah, beyond actual neutral zones of space, I think "border" is just an easier way to show the influence on any given system. There's no border patrol, it would be effectively impossible to do even with buoys doing the majority of watching, just due to sheer distances.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 18:58
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:The thing that always got me is I have no idea if a sector is supposed to be big or small Yes
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 19:02
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:The thing that always got me is I have no idea if a sector is supposed to be big or small IIRC the fanon answer to that is a 20 light years per side cube which means sector 001 is basically Earth plus Alpha Centauri, Tau Ceti, Barnard's and Sirius (probably what UE space looked like by 2100), but I don't think it's literally stated anywhere ever. One of the TOS books actually assumed the quadrants were some sort of navigational system with a quadrant 0 that corresponded roughly to the federation's core members' space. IIRC TOS even uses quadrant and sector interchangeably because none of that was ever defined until they decided in TNG that quadrants were slices of galaxy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 19:03
|
|
|
The Alpha, Beta etc Quadrants don’t get thought up until the episode of TNG where Crusher and Troi do stretches in Totally Not The Corridor Set. Every usage of “quadrant” or “sector” produced before that episode is basically just random technobabble. e: as I was looking it up to make sure I discovered that it’s Actually totally not the corridor set, it’s main engineering with the big central console removed. Who knew
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 19:07
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:The thing that always got me is I have no idea if a sector is supposed to be big or small None of the distances ever make sense. Qo'noS is canonically under a light-year away from Earth. Don't worry about it, the writers sure didn't.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 19:48
|
|
|
the borders and the technical stuff and etc. don't matter. the plots, themes, and characterization matter.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 19:55
|
|
|
and bajor. bajor matters.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:02
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:None of the distances ever make sense. Qo'noS is canonically under a light-year away from Earth. Don't worry about it, the writers sure didn't. Is it? According to Enterprise it was just under 90 LY from the Sol System
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:12
|
|
|
Angry_Ed posted:Is it? According to Enterprise it was just under 90 LY from the Sol System And according to TNG, so says memory alpha, Qo'noS is in the Omega Leonis system, 108 LY from Sol.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:16
|
|
|
qo'nos is scooting around the quadrant. its nacelles are huge.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:17
|
|
|
Praxis blowing up nudged them out of orbit so they just went with it
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:19
|
|
|
Yeah, travel times in show are usually a dumb guide, they reference actual distances every now and then though. Even DS9 and Voyager which sometimes actually tried to account for the fact that warp is not instant sometimes just go for speed of plot instead because it feels more convenient. Also the movies are the absolute worst about sticking to what exactly warp speed means in the writers' bible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:20
|
|
|
The script of the Enterprise pilot said that it'd take four weeks to get to Qo'nos but the director thought that sounded long so he changed it on-set to four days instead.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:21
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:The script of the Enterprise pilot said that it'd take four weeks to get to Qo'nos but the director thought that sounded long so he changed it on-set to four days instead. "We know this is a show about Magellan's circumnavigation but we figured out it would be too slow so we just wrote here that he crossed the pacific in two days, also there were pirates with lasers and poo poo in the way"
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:22
|
|
|
That’s a wrap. Journey to the center of Sloan was dumb.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:24
|
|
|
"'Around the world in
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:26
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:And according to TNG, so says memory alpha, Qo'noS is in the Omega Leonis system, 108 LY from Sol. I thought that was just the sector block, but either way it's still way further than under a light year from Sol.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:42
|
|
|
I remember when Enterprise premiered and nerds poo poo their pants over the whole “four days to Qo’noS” thing, which I guess was ludicrously fast for the speed and distance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:46
|
|
|
What's dumb is it's not like they have to change the pacing at all for the trip to be several weeks instead of 4 days. The duration of the trip is literally just a line of dialog. Changing it to be quicker just makes the whole universe feel smaller. Then there's JJ trek when we're doing that distance with a transporter and Spock can watch the destruction of his planet in real time, with his naked eye, from several light years away and the Enterprise can fall from the moon's orbit into the atmosphere in about 2 minutes. Scale? gently caress we don't need scale.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:52
|
|
|
tbh if you make an early exploration of space prequel it feels like going purely at the speed of plot constantly to a degree where you're just... instantly whever kind of loses the point. It's like making an age of sail movie and then basing distances off of how long it takes for a commercial flight to get there today. Which is to say prequels were a really, really dumb idea (for JJTrek's scale bullshit I'm mostly willing to forgive because almost all the movies do it, iirc the First Contact novelization basically justifies the skip to earth by saying the fleet's literally been fighting the whole way since the romulan border) Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Apr 5, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 20:52
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:I remember when Enterprise premiered and nerds poo poo their pants over the whole “four days to Qo’noS” thing, which I guess was ludicrously fast for the speed and distance. The NX-01 has speed holes, they make the ship go faster.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 21:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 21:40 |
|
|
Delsaber posted:The NX-01 has speed holes, they make the ship go faster. I've got faith.
|
|
#
?
Apr 5, 2019 21:07
|
|
