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Agnosticnixie posted:IIRC the fanon answer to that is a 20 light years per side cube which means sector 001 is basically Earth plus Alpha Centauri, Tau Ceti, Barnard's and Sirius (probably what UE space looked like by 2100), but I don't think it's literally stated anywhere ever. One of the TOS books actually assumed the quadrants were some sort of navigational system with a quadrant 0 that corresponded roughly to the federation's core members' space. IIRC TOS even uses quadrant and sector interchangeably because none of that was ever defined until they decided in TNG that quadrants were slices of galaxy. Assuming that's centered on Earth, it would also include Wolf 359 and several other red dwarfs.
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Apr 5, 2019 21:07
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*is a xenophobic alien empire at cultural and political odds with the Federation* *Along with every other such empire, adopts a map of the galaxy that centers on Earth and doesn't make any sense* *Continues trading money for goods and services when you can make objects from thin air, including more air* DS9 writers: OK, you can only make objects from thin air within reason, I guess. "What about these other problems?" DS9 writers: No. Everything is about this nonsensical galaxy map now. Everything.
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Apr 5, 2019 21:52
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I do get the sense replication takes some meaningful amount of energy. But that said, if it did, you'd think they'd re-use dishes and just replicate food.
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Apr 5, 2019 21:58
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Pick posted:I do get the sense replication takes some meaningful amount of energy. But that said, if it did, you'd think they'd re-use dishes and just replicate food. Dishes are probably next-to-nothing cost because it's such a simple substance maybe?
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Apr 5, 2019 22:02
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MikeJF posted:Dishes are probably next-to-nothing cost because it's such a simple substance maybe? I mean at the end of the day it's not really worth getting too far into because it was a logistical conceit on the part of the writers so, like, whatever. However, that doesn't stop me from wanting to make a thin whining sound at aspects of it that don't make sense and then pout about it for hours. I love star trek.
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Apr 5, 2019 22:05
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I remember the tech manuals posited that part of the energy cost was increased by the degree of transformation and complexity of result: the Enterprise-D kept a bunch of matter in organic sludge form that was relatively easy for the replicators to turn into most foodstuffs, as well as banks of generic structural matter that replicators could easily use in most simple solid items almost verbatim.
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Apr 5, 2019 22:08
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MikeJF posted:Dishes are probably next-to-nothing cost because it's such a simple substance maybe? E=mc^2 is E=mc^2. All matter is just atoms.
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Apr 5, 2019 22:10
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Epicurius posted:E=mc^2 is E=mc^2. All matter is just atoms. Yeah but replicators don't create matter, they transform it from matter banks. They're basically complex 3D printers which use transporter tech to assemble.
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Apr 5, 2019 22:11
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Yeah and they have to have weird restrictions, otherwise they could recreate latinum or whatever.
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Apr 5, 2019 22:14
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MikeJF posted:I remember the tech manuals posited that part of the energy cost was increased by the degree of transformation and complexity of result: the Enterprise-D kept a bunch of matter in organic sludge form that was relatively easy for the replicators to turn into most foodstuffs, as well as banks of generic structural matter that replicators could easily use in most simple solid items almost verbatim. People refer to the tech manual for this but in the show, Voyager stumbles across some Ferengis trapped in the Delta quadrant and the replicator they show doesn't seem to be attached to any "organic sludge tubes" or anything really as it's just a breadbox with a power supply.
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Apr 5, 2019 22:14
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Sodomy Hussein posted:*is a xenophobic alien empire at cultural and political odds with the Federation* Yeah, just imagine if real-world countries all used geographic coordinates and time zones that were centered on a 19th-century naval power. Wild.
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Apr 5, 2019 22:33
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Remember when there was a warp speed limit? And how Romulan stories relied fully on the conceit that the backstory to their first appearance insisted no one had ever seen or reported on seeing a member of a species they fought a major war with? Or that later series involved a neutral zone IN SPACE that was never anything but and it was treated like entering it was tantamount to starting a drat war despite the whole point of having “neutral” space? Or how the Romulans and Klingons basically swapped characterizations between TOS and everything else? Sometimes Star Trek be dumb as hell.
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Apr 5, 2019 22:59
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Seriously, the Romulan neutral zone? More like the Romulan gently caress Off Zone. The Romulans don’t exactly live here but they enforce it so they can fly up and tell people to gently caress off before they can get somewhere important.
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Apr 5, 2019 23:02
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Burning_Monk posted:People refer to the tech manual for this but in the show, Voyager stumbles across some Ferengis trapped in the Delta quadrant and the replicator they show doesn't seem to be attached to any "organic sludge tubes" or anything really as it's just a breadbox with a power supply. why can't it just beam chunks of dirt and poo poo from a hill or something 10 miles away instead of keeping a big tank of goo right behind it
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Apr 5, 2019 23:25
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Burning_Monk posted:People refer to the tech manual for this but in the show, Voyager stumbles across some Ferengis trapped in the Delta quadrant and the replicator they show doesn't seem to be attached to any "organic sludge tubes" or anything really as it's just a breadbox with a power supply. Yeah but that's voyager. Even Voyager strongly implies that there's something in shuttles that can't be replicated (afaik the typical assumption is the weird superdense metal the tech manuals say warp coils are made of) but they still go through Voyager's stated shuttle complement like 10 times over the seasons. Also like Final Frontier (or was it search for Spock) and TNG does show the federation keeps (badly) listening posts in systems on their side of the neutral zones. I just assume the region is treated as fully demilitarized (unless you happen to have cloaks) Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Apr 5, 2019 |
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Apr 5, 2019 23:35
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Tighclops posted:why can't it just beam chunks of dirt and poo poo from a hill or something 10 miles away instead of keeping a big tank of goo right behind it Agnosticnixie posted:Yeah but that's voyager. Even Voyager strongly implies that there's something in shuttles that can't be replicated (afaik the typical assumption is the weird superdense metal the tech manuals say warp coils are made of) but they still go through Voyager's stated shuttle complement like 10 times over the seasons. You also have the same issue with "self-replicating mines" in DS9.  Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic... yadda yadda
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Apr 5, 2019 23:37
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Also in general pretty much every series seems to treat the federation's attitude towards "border" systems as functionally an open border unless there's literally a treaty that tells them to get out and then they might politely escort you out unless you start poo poo, at least in times of peace. Even Kirk didn't seem particularly keen on finishing off the BoP in Balance of Terror.
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Apr 5, 2019 23:40
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Powered Descent posted:Yeah, just imagine if real-world countries all used geographic coordinates and time zones that were centered on a 19th-century naval power. Wild. True enough, and yet the star map is not centered on Vulcan.
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Apr 5, 2019 23:44
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I always liked that scene in The Fifth Element with the ship waiting for clearance to cross a space border that's just a line of buoys stretching out to infinity. Servicing those things must be tons of fun.
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Apr 5, 2019 23:48
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They have robots to service the bouys. Obviously.
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Apr 6, 2019 00:52
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Nodosaur posted:Seriously, the Romulan neutral zone? More like the Romulan gently caress Off Zone. The Romulans don’t exactly live here but they enforce it so they can fly up and tell people to gently caress off before they can get somewhere important. The neutral zone was an area designated "not ours and not theirs" though, it's not something specifically the romulans are enforcing. It's just a slightly fatter border. The big thing that I think star trek is silly with geography wise is something I always think of when I play stellaris - who the gently caress is on the other side of the romulans and Klingons and why don't they expand that way instead?
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Apr 6, 2019 02:33
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Taear posted:The big thing that I think star trek is silly with geography wise is something I always think of when I play stellaris - who the gently caress is on the other side of the romulans and Klingons and why don't they expand that way instead? Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
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Apr 6, 2019 03:04
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Considering how close they are to the federation founding members they probably already pushed that way. IIRC SFB shoved an angrier version of the federation on the other side of the klingons
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Apr 6, 2019 03:12
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Agnosticnixie posted:Considering how close they are to the federation founding members they probably already pushed that way. The ISC were on the far side of the Gorns and Romulans. The Klingons and Kzinti were on the other side of the Federation, with the Lyrans, Hydrans, and Wyn further away from the Feds.
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Apr 6, 2019 03:38
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mllaneza posted:The ISC were on the far side of the Gorns and Romulans. Only races with Y in their name here, bucko!
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Apr 6, 2019 03:46
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Taear posted:The big thing that I think star trek is silly with geography wise is something I always think of when I play stellaris - who the gently caress is on the other side of the romulans and Klingons and why don't they expand that way instead? Usually by the time I get around to exploring that region in New Horizons for Stellaris it's crawling with Husnock. Sometimes they're even big enough to start bumping up against the Borg around the Beta-Delta border. Otherwise, I like to think the "matters more important" the Romulans mentioned when they showed up in TNG was a war they were fighting on the other side of their territory. Just not against the Husnock. Probably.
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Apr 6, 2019 03:53
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Apr 6, 2019 03:55
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Brawnfire posted:Only races with Y in their name here, bucko! *sweating profusely* Oh, uh, yes, we are Terryns
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Apr 6, 2019 03:55
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Oh, uh, yes, we are Terryns That's my favourite riot grrl band.
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Apr 6, 2019 04:12
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Pick posted:Yeah and they have to have weird restrictions, otherwise they could recreate latinum or whatever. or polyester
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Apr 6, 2019 06:14
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Harumph!
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Apr 6, 2019 06:32
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quaaaaaaaark
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Apr 6, 2019 06:43
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Note: this costume reverts to a gelatinous state after 18 hours (due to use of toxic and unsafe chemicals in the fabric)
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Apr 6, 2019 07:58
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...Michael Meyers?
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Apr 6, 2019 08:11
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jeeves posted:Trek always depicts the galaxy as 2D. It looks like they finally settled on a map over the years with Earth being in the middle of Alpha/Beta, Klingons and Roms in Beta, and Cardassians/Breen/Ferengi in Alpha. It's even dumber because to split the Galaxy into quadrants with two of them being split by Earth is such a Human Centric view, it's laughable. Like the Vulcans would say "Thank you Humans. We've had space travel for thousands of years, but we've never bothered to map or delineate sections of the galaxy before we met you. Now that we've founded this "Federation" of yours, we'll do so with you at the center of all things!" Agnosticnixie posted:"We know this is a show about Magellan's circumnavigation but we figured out it would be too slow so we just wrote here that he crossed the pacific in two days, also there were pirates with lasers and poo poo in the way" That'd be as bad as changing the uniforms to something more modern!  But really though, it's amazing that a series that had a production office, writers, and continuity people around for 15 years over 3 shows just let some Director of the Week change something as big as that.
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Apr 6, 2019 15:27
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Maybe they changed the flight time because it would have felt weird for the crew to still be getting to know each other after being stuck on a ship together for a month.
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Apr 6, 2019 15:34
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The only accidentally good thing to come out of ID is the star charts using a different definition of the quadrants which puts all four founding members of the federation in the Alpha even though iirc with earth as the mid-point two should be in the beta.
Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Apr 6, 2019 |
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Apr 6, 2019 15:40
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I actually liked that Earth is right on the border of two quadrants as a sign of a space map where Earth isn't the centre of the universe with everything constructed neatly around it.
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Apr 6, 2019 16:06
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Powered Descent posted:Yeah, just imagine if real-world countries all used geographic coordinates and time zones that were centered on a 19th-century naval power. Wild. It has almost nothing to do with British naval power in the 19th century and everything to do with their invention of the marine chronometer that enabled reliable longitude calculations in the 18th century.
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Apr 6, 2019 16:24
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Sash! posted:It has almost nothing to do with British naval power in the 19th century and everything to do with their invention of the marine chronometer that enabled reliable longitude calculations in the 18th century. Contributed through British Naval Power and created by a Brit. Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Apr 6, 2019 |
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Apr 6, 2019 16:31
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