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momtartin posted:I just e-mailed back asking for feedback, so I'm hoping to get some. Other people I've asked don't respond. Try calling them instead of emailing. I find people are very loathe to put things down in writing in case they get sued, but if you talk to them in the right manner you get often weedle out why they thought you were arrogant, unqualified, too intelligent or a complete dick.* *I just happened to pick these reasons at random and they are in no way actual feedbacks I got myself using this method. No, shut up.
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Apr 15, 2019 23:46
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Our HR policy is to not give feedback on interviews to outside candidates. In my experience that’s fairly wide spread.
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Apr 15, 2019 23:48
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“You were a fine candidate we just decided to go in a different direction. I have no constructive feedback to provide you.” (Because I don’t want to say the wrong thing and get sued)
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Apr 15, 2019 23:50
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Jordan7hm posted:“You were a fine candidate we just decided to go in a different direction. I have no constructive feedback to provide you.” (Because I don’t want to say the wrong thing and get sued) If you get any feedback at all other than this, it'll be a miracle. This is the legal CYA approach for companies. I wish I could go through interviews and resumes with some candidates (not all of them, but at least the really good ones I didn't select) and give them advice or refer them on to other companies I know are looking for people, but HR in every place I've worked with any hiring power has stomped on that idea nice and hard.
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Apr 15, 2019 23:54
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companies can get in poo poo for saying the wrong thing about why they didn't hire you. they're not gonna give you much feedback
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Apr 15, 2019 23:56
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momtartin posted:
Might be a problem of going after the wrong types of jobs. Has your sense been with the other rejections that they go pretty well but your just missing key component X?
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Apr 16, 2019 00:00
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edit: gently caress this thread
The Sean fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2019 02:13
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Just stop doing the director work.
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Apr 16, 2019 02:17
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That blows but some other company is going to put burnout marks in the ground as soon as they hear what you're capable of. Be like 5% thankful they gave you that opportunity and then go make them hire 2 people to replace you.
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Apr 16, 2019 02:32
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Lockback posted:That blows but some other company is going to put burnout marks in the ground as soon as they hear what you're capable of. Be like 5% thankful they gave you that opportunity and then go make them hire 2 people to replace you. Yeah seriously this is the right response
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Apr 16, 2019 02:36
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Tnuctip posted:Be careful tangling with sales, if you aim to fight them you must crush them without mercy, otherwise theyll come back to bite you in the rear end. Theres a strong double standard that applies to sales people, in the sense that they get passes for acting immature/douchey/etc yet they become deeply offended when you act that way towards them and will loudly complain how you wronged them. Back at the advertising agency our VP of New Business made a really serious attempt to throw my rear end under the bus over a failed $5 million pitch. Back in the dark days of 2005, our most treasured IT possession was the good projector. It was a top of the line LED projector with a hardened travel case. One of the account executives (a title you give a junior person you're working 90 hours a week when you don't also want to pay them OT) comes to borrow it. We test the thing and I get a signature. He goes off with it. A few days later they're back. I get called into the main conference room. I come in and sit down, and there I am looking at a very unhappy VP of New Business. Flanking him are the president of the (local) agency (we do about $100 mil a year, so he's a big wheel) and the guy who came up with the "Got Milk" campaign. the VP goes off on me. He's ranting about the projector didn't work, we looked like jerks out there, blah blah $ 5 mil opportunity, poo poo didn't work, bl;ah blah blah. He finally winds down, composes himself, and asks me "so what do you have to say for yourself ?" "Did it work during rehearsal ?" Motherfucker Dead silence. The VP of NB is frozen; he still has the "what do you have to say for yourself?" smirk on his face and he wishes he didn't. About 20 seconds pass like that and the president of the office says "Thanks for coming in mllaneza, we'll take it from here." I loving strutted my way out of that meeting like I never have before or since.
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Apr 16, 2019 02:53
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Sundae posted:If you get any feedback at all other than this, it'll be a miracle. This is the legal CYA approach for companies. I wish I could go through interviews and resumes with some candidates (not all of them, but at least the really good ones I didn't select) and give them advice or refer them on to other companies I know are looking for people, but HR in every place I've worked with any hiring power has stomped on that idea nice and hard. I want to add: sometimes other candidates are just better. If you work in a field with a lot of competition and you come from a place that is lagging in modern tech you need to up your game and skill up, which you did. Alternative is to find an area in the field that is less populated but still has demand and skill up for that. Do not try and skill up on things everyone has, that makes no sense. They have hands-on and you have some online training. Try and do online training for things that few people use but you expect demand (programming in Go is an example).
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Apr 16, 2019 09:22
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Love reading this thread. Any recommendations on resources on how to get ahead in corporate life. I got passed over for a promotion in which I thought i was objectively going to get, but I think i was let down subjectively.
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Apr 16, 2019 10:37
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Lizzy posted:Love reading this thread. Any recommendations on resources on how to get ahead in corporate life. I got passed over for a promotion in which I thought i was objectively going to get, but I think i was let down subjectively. The advice is always find a new job. I don't necessarily agree with the advice all the time....its only right maybe 70-80%. Lower for management roles.
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Apr 16, 2019 10:48
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Lizzy posted:Love reading this thread. Any recommendations on resources on how to get ahead in corporate life. I got passed over for a promotion in which I thought i was objectively going to get, but I think i was let down subjectively. Most of the time promotions are given to people who are most liked by management. While their skills might be less than yours, the perception of management is that they are stellar with him being a great guy and so on. This perception vs reality is also why so many women are passed over for promotion and get paid less and so on :worms: To get a promotion you should spend about half your time on getting your superiors to like you, the other half can be spend on doing your job okeeish. I have no clue how to be liked, which is why I left all that bullshit and now work as an independent contractor in a field with a shortage of capable people.
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Apr 16, 2019 11:18
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When we launched our program in 2017, our team consisted of my boss (Director), me (VP), a specialist (AVP), and an analyst. This year they took the analyst away from us to shore up holes in other parts of the program (because every part of the program is on fire except ours), and my boss' work expanded to direct an even larger part of the overall program. So I'm now doing the analyst's job, my job, and about 80% of the director's job. And to top it all off, the director and myself had a meeting yesterday with the Managing Director in charge of the whole program to defend our jobs because he had no idea what we even did all day. So that was fun. So like The Sean, my boss and I both are doing this should the situation not improve: Lockback posted:That blows but some other company is going to put burnout marks in the ground as soon as they hear what you're capable of. Be like 5% thankful they gave you that opportunity and then go make them hire 2 people to replace you.
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Apr 16, 2019 12:32
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mllaneza posted:Back at the advertising agency our VP of New Business made a really serious attempt to throw my rear end under the bus over a failed $5 million pitch. I'm sure I've seen you post this before and every time it makes me happy.
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Apr 16, 2019 12:34
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Fil5000 posted:I'm sure I've seen you post this before and every time it makes me happy. Same and same.
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Apr 16, 2019 12:57
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The Sean posted:I have an interview on Thursday. Skype interview, though, which I really dislike. I'm probably old-fashioned but I wish it were just a phone interview. I've developed this weird paranoia about Skype interviews in that I'm pretty sure that they're a way to actively screen minorities, women, fat people, or other "unwanted" people. If you kill people in the phone screen stage it's a) lower cost and b) a lot harder for the candidate to claim that you've discriminated against them.
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Apr 16, 2019 13:11
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Keetron posted:To get a promotion you should spend about half your time on getting your superiors to like you, the other half can be spend on doing your job okeeish. Why do you like people that work for you? For me the answer is usually they are competent, they communicate problems early and are transparent, they're comfortable making most decisions on their own, and they frequently identify and solve problems that I didn't know I had without me having to get involved. They also should be pleasant enough to shoot the poo poo with, I'm generally a social worker so you've got to give me at least something there. Then just do that poo poo for your managers, etc. Take on tasks, or identify tasks and solve them for people. Make sure they know you did it, but don't be an obnoxious brown-noser.
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Apr 16, 2019 13:14
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I've developed this weird paranoia about Skype interviews in that I'm pretty sure that they're a way to actively screen minorities, women, fat people, or other "unwanted" people. If you kill people in the phone screen stage it's a) lower cost and b) a lot harder for the candidate to claim that you've discriminated against them. Its really hard to get a discrimination claim even if you do bring them in. Hiring discrimination cases are very rare, and then either based on after-the fact demographic studies or blatant stupidity like asking "How do you feel about wearing short skirts? Any plans on getting pregnant?" Skype interviews are faster than doing extra in-person, and hiring is a tremendously time-consuming activity. That said I only do them myself if the candidate is remote. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Why do you like people that work for you? Yeah this is pretty good advice. I don't always promote the person who puts up the most numbers or whatever, I promote the person I trust to take on more responsibility. Those are two very different things. If you promote people based solely on how they did their last job you end up with an office of Peter Principle people. Lockback fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Apr 16, 2019 |
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Apr 16, 2019 13:19
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I've developed this weird paranoia about Skype interviews in that I'm pretty sure that they're a way to actively screen minorities, women, fat people, or other "unwanted" people. This is silly. If someone is outright discriminating, they can screen for all of those things without using video chat. Video interviews are great. You get a whole host of context about a person that you don't get from a phone interview. You can also show them things via screen sharing or vice versa. You can understand how they express themselves or consider problems better. Candidates have a better chance to establish a human connection with the person interviewing.
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Apr 16, 2019 13:25
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Lizzy posted:Love reading this thread. Any recommendations on resources on how to get ahead in corporate life. I got passed over for a promotion in which I thought i was objectively going to get, but I think i was let down subjectively. https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ Angling for promotion means playing office politics, and playing to win. This the best primer on office politics I've seen.
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Apr 16, 2019 14:35
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My company needs a simple document approval workflow solution with long term approval retention (7yr+), and the file sent to FileNet for long term storage. * Workflow needs to be very user selectable - I may select my direct boss or maybe it goes up 4 levels to the CAO. The software doesn't need to suggest/require specific approvers. * Document types are Excel, Word, PPT, and PDF. It would be useful to be able to approve groups of docs too (PPT plus a couple spreadsheets or something). * Doc info metadata will be required to be entered for searchablity. * Completed documents and approvals must be sent to an on-prem FileNet (new ish version, upgraded last quarter). What software would y'all suggest? For reference we have SharePoint, FileNet, ServiceNow, and I bet some other stuff that I'm not aware of. Other new tools are an option - our (highly compensated MBA) IT project director dude seems to really want new software.
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Apr 16, 2019 15:04
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edit: gently caress this thread
The Sean fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2019 15:14
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I'm going to give the hot take that video calls are good, since I'm lovely at voice only calls due to not being able to pick up on visual and physical cues ( ). Working at a place with ubiquitous video conferencing is pretty swell.
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Apr 16, 2019 15:26
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Eric the Mauve posted:https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ Goddamn this is good. quote:So why is promoting over-performing Losers logical? The simple reason is that if you over-perform at the Loser level, it is clear that you are an idiot. You’ve already made a bad bargain, and now you’re delivering more value than you need to, making your bargain even worse. Unless you very quickly demonstrate that you know your own value by successfully negotiating more money and/or power, you are marked out as an exploitable clueless Loser. At one point, Darryl, angling for a raise, learns to his astonishment that the raise he is asking for would make his salary higher than Michael’s. Michael hasn’t negotiated a better deal in 14 years. Darryl — a minimum-effort Loser with strains of Sociopath — doesn’t miss a step. He convinces and coaches Michael into asking for his own raise, so he can get his. The only thing is that I think the use of the word Loser skews how people instinctively understand the model. But it’s real good.
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Apr 16, 2019 16:00
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Eric the Mauve posted:https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ This was a great read.
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Apr 16, 2019 16:04
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Jordan7hm posted:The only thing is that I think the use of the word Loser skews how people instinctively understand the model. But it’s real good. Yeah, I agree--Rao follows MacLeod's nomenclature, using the labels a Sociopath would use. The people at the bottom, here called Losers, I personally think of as Drones--just grunt workers. The first time I read this series it was like... a LOT of things I'd struggled to understand for years just clicked into place in a flash of enlightenment.
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Apr 16, 2019 16:10
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The Sean posted:In this case Skype is the first round and in-person is the second stage. I'm attractive and a white male so general societal stereotypes help me (and I don't like that they do, but I can't help it). Part of my worry is I don't know where to do it at. I can shut my office door but the walls are thin so a) distractions b) coworkers hearing I'm doing an interview. I thought of staying home for the day but Wed-Fri my apartment building is doing a fire alarm test sometime but they don't know when it will be. I worry that the universe will set me up for failure with how the timing would work out for that. I have some nice cafes and stuff in the immediate vicinity but I'm guessing being outside would look unprofessional. Any advice? Generally libraries have conference/study rooms that you can reserve for a set period of time. Just book like a day in advance. That's what I used when I was interviewing and my upstairs neighbors were crate-training a new dog. It's quiet, professional-looking, and generally the wifi is very strong (and some even have wired internet)
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Apr 16, 2019 16:14
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edit: gently caress this thread
The Sean fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Apr 24, 2020 |
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Apr 16, 2019 18:02
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Formulator One (F1): I need the equipment right now! My project due date got accelerated! Formulator Two (F2): But we're on the schedule first! And you don't have a recovery method yet anyway! Boss : What size do you need for the batches? F1: 500g each. Two batches. F2: 400g each. Twelve batches. Me: Do either of you need stability data or does it not matter if there's no recovery method? (This is the "prove you've cleaned the last drug off the equipment" method.) F1: Nope don't care. F2: Nope, just process work. Me: What's the capacity on that equipment, boss? You're the SME; all I know is it's small. Boss: Be right back, gonna go look something up. *boss leaves* F1, F2 and I sort out everything else for the meeting, sit back and wait for boss to return. *ten minutes pass.* F1 and F2 start checking their watches. I'm checking e-mails. *thirty minutes pass* Me: Um... I guess were done here? I'll check with my boss when he gets back. F1 and F2 leave without an answer. I go to boss's office. He's in there reading e-mails. He forgot that he had gone to look something up and doesn't remember what it even was that he was checking. 
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Apr 16, 2019 18:32
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So an update. One of my coworkers was making $15,000 less than the rest of us in the same position. So we sat him down and discussed negotiating tactics. It came for pay raise time and some revaulating of salary. We all got good raises but he managed to close the gap by $8,000.
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Apr 16, 2019 18:39
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Sundae posted:Formulator One (F1): I need the equipment right now! My project due date got accelerated! Yes, I'm sure he "forgot".
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Apr 16, 2019 18:55
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My department is trying to get a union person to take a promotion outside of the union, but not really actually compensating her to do so. She keeps coming to me for advice and my advice is "ask for your labor rep to be in the meeting." I'm not sure I should give this advice, but they're trying to railroad her and it sucks because she's a good employee.
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Apr 16, 2019 18:56
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Volmarias posted:Yes, I'm sure he "forgot". Yeah. Definitely requires the quotes there. :p
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Apr 16, 2019 19:13
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Seconding and thirding, so no worries if you skip. Feedback: I used to be a college instructor so I want to give feedback to candidates, but indeed we cannot. Sometimes I mention online resources, but never anything specific to the interview ("you suck at X go study", not permitted). You have to use other resources. Online practice, training, networking groups in towne, etc. Even if you get interview feedback, it's not likely to be terribly honest. Video and Phone: I hate them, but phone interviews are definitely filters so companies can optimize their interview times. Places should be comparing full interviews to comments from the phone interviews, to ensure data collected on the phone is useful. I've seen teams switch between one and two phone interviews depending on the role. People are jerks, so if they aren't aware of their biases they'll screw up. On a phone, being intelligible is really all that matters. This works against some candidates. For video, definitely still plan to look professional, check lighting beforehand, remove distractions, try to remove echo. In all honesty, I can barely remember what candidates look like when it comes time to review feedback, and that's only with a few interviews each week. For "soft signals", I tend to notice excitement, tiredness, engagement, and how people talk about their peers. I can discuss more, but I suspect there's an interviewing thread, or negotiating thread, or someplace more appropriate?
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Apr 16, 2019 22:49
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:I can discuss more, but I suspect there's an interviewing thread, or negotiating thread, or someplace more appropriate? Both  One piece of advice I give people doing phone screens (on both sides of the metaphorical table) is to use a landline if humanly possible. Maybe it's just me/where I live but my experience is you have a significantly easier time hearing each other if both parties are on landlines.
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Apr 16, 2019 23:56
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Sundae posted:It always amazes me how expensive lovely office furniture is. For $700, I can get a brand-new Steelcase Leap chair and be ergo-friendly/comfortable for the next 35 years. Or, for $695.99 I can buy a piece of poo poo that falls apart on its second use and has arms that cause instantaneous tendinitis. The clinic desks, while really nice, were something like $800 each. I think it would have been cheaper for one of my bosses to fly to a place with an Ikea and ship everything back. We also tried to get our 30ish waiting room chairs reupholstered and the first company wanted some eye watering amount of money and a minimum of 2-3 months. The second company wanted under $3k and had them done within 2ish weeks. My last office had what I think are the heaviest desks I've ever encountered. I don't know how much they cost or what they're made of but I can tell you if a bomb hit that building the desks would be fine. The wiring behind them is comical because where they're so heavy and nobody can move them there are wires crisscrossed everywhere (cat5/telephone) paragon1 posted:Last year I found ketchup from 2013. I am the office trash compactor, as in I will eat anything. I was very hungry one day. I had to have a coworker talk me down from eating the 5 year old lean cuisine that had been in the freezer.
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Apr 17, 2019 00:06
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Some guy here just sprayed deodoriser on himself on the work floor. Now personally I really dislike spray on deodoriser, so the smell will bother me for while. But don't we have locker rooms for that?
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Apr 17, 2019 08:31
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