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get me HQ! posted:call me a nerd I'm just praying that Star Wars as a franchise dies off due to being badtouched by the mouse and in desperation Mickey authorises plans to bring back the one true space saga, Ice Pirates. Edit - quote added because new page.
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Apr 27, 2019 06:30
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Chomp8645 posted:I think we're basically there already tbh. the prequels had some cool ideas and an arc that people were curious to see, but were not super well executed, kinda hokey, and bad luck to come out in the era of overblown cgi sequels is like, it looks cool but what is even going on who gives a gently caress
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Apr 27, 2019 06:31
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i can't wait for it to truly sink in that these are the ST films we're getting. like, carrie fisher is dead, harrison ford is out, and luke's all but said he hasn't enjoyed any of it. maybe soon after episode 9 comes to its unsatisfying conclusion.
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Apr 27, 2019 06:43
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The last jedi is so compellingly awful because it's confusing why they would dedicate a whole star wars movie to saying "gently caress you" to both people who enjoyed the original star wars and people who criticized other star wars movies. I didn't really care about last jedi one way or another going into it. I saw force awakens in theaters, and then I didn't see last jedi until like a year after it came out. It felt like they were just gonna keep pumping out predictable remakes, so no big deal if I ever saw another. I finally saw tlj cause my wife wanted to re-watch tfa, then we wanted to see what happened next. I hadn't heard anything about last jedi really, and I was utterly blown away by how bad it was. Not just how bad it was, but the way in which it was bad. I was just expecting tfa level, sort of acceptably mediocre and flashy. Tlj was nothing like I expected. A lot of tlj is a pointed message at certain groups of people, like the holdo character is supposed to irritate MRAs, or the casino part is supposed to irritate people that didn't like the prequels. But... why bother making a whole movie just to irritate some people on the internet? I don't think tlj is the only movie/tv show that is guilty of doing this, of responding in the product to people that argue about it or criticize it on the internet. But it never makes for good viewing, and really confuses the hell out of me, someone who was not involved in debates about or criticism of the whole thing prior to seeing it. Also, I'm still astonished that disney didn't hire someone to write a story for the whole trilogy before filming it. The storytelling is going absolutely nowhere, because there wasn't a story planned. So here I am, posting about it on SA because I'm still so surprised by the last jedi. Mission accomplished, I guess?
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Apr 27, 2019 06:46
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Vim Fuego posted:Also, I'm still astonished that disney didn't hire someone to write a story for the whole trilogy this is what i have been wondering, is this true? like did they really not plan out an arc beforehand? or did they do it but just in really vague terms? Or not at all and they just hoped it would come together?
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Apr 27, 2019 06:50
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Vim Fuego posted:The last jedi is so compellingly awful because it's confusing why they would dedicate a whole star wars movie to saying "gently caress you" to both people who enjoyed the original star wars and people who criticized other star wars movies. These problems always start at the top. It's easy to blame JJ or RJ but ultimately KK was the boss and hired them in the first place. Oh that's right all are still involved.  that 4 billion investment.
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Apr 27, 2019 06:51
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get me HQ! posted:this is what i have been wondering, is this true? like did they really not plan out an arc beforehand? or did they do it but just in really vague terms? Or not at all and they just hoped it would come together? From my understanding, JJ had a rough copy of the trilogy, and it was basically a retread of the OT. Then Rian came in and derailed it, and now JJ and CO. had to scramble to get it back on track, hence the emperor being re-introduced since Snoke was killed off in II and they were left without a main villain who wasn't a joke (Hux and Kylo).
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Apr 27, 2019 06:54
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They didn't really have a "plan" it seems, but JJ at least had ideas about where he thought things should go based on what he'd set up. He passed that information to Rian, who promptly said "didn't read lol" and I guess just willfully threw everything off the rails because he thought it would be funny. Tbh, unceremoniously dumpstering a franchise your bosses paid $4 billion for is pretty funny. Probably not a great career move though.
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Apr 27, 2019 07:05
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get me HQ! posted:this is what i have been wondering, is this true? like did they really not plan out an arc beforehand? or did they do it but just in really vague terms? Or not at all and they just hoped it would come together? it's difficult to determine, but here are some various bits and pieces lucas was already in the works making an episode 7 and had selected a lot of concept art and conceptual ideas when he sold star wars to disney. apparently, there was some drama behind the scenes where he was basically removed from the project which was the source of that 'white slavers' comment. disney said they also threw out all of lucas' notes as some kind of attempt at post-prequels goodwill, but they didn't. lucas' original outline is quite stamped on the ST, just with names changed. some of what lucas has said about his outline seems to indicate it'd involve confronting the force directly, sort of like kreia in knights of the old republic. this was memed by people into meaning that he wanted to shink down the cast to fight the midichlorians with small lightsabers and poo poo. i feel like it is fair to assume that such a story would close out star wars, unlike disney who wanted to keep the money train rolling with as little work as possible Anyway, tfa underwent significant rewrites and editing. characters were removed, plots were changed, and a whole lot of the film was redubbed with ADR (a lot of finn, especially). abrams wanted the film pushed back a few months to really make it as good as possible in the aftermath but it was denied. tfa would originally end with one of the ideas from lucas' outline -- that rey would find luke meditating, surrounded by giant rocks. tfa was originally going to feature an opening scene focused on luke's lightsaber, a scene where it was handed to leia (shown in trailers), and a secret republic superweapon that they would use to drop the shields around starkiller base (where they're supposedly pulling footage of leia from for episode 9) tlj was being written at the same time as tfa but with little communication between the two. johnson asked for tfa's final scene to be changed to what we got. this is why tlj feels so disconnected, because so much of tfa was changed last minute. there was apparently an overarching plan, something simon pegg has said abrams told him, including things like rey's parents and so on. however, johnson claims there was no overaching plan and no one gave him any notes. abrams has since said, basically, that episode 9 is going to 'tell the whole story' about some of the things in episode 8. the overarching plan supposedly included snoke as darth plagueis. one, snoke looks like him. two, he uses the plagueis theme music. three, in the new EU palpatine detects a strong dark side presence where snoke came from. four, daisy ridley practically blurted it out at a con a few years ago leaving abrams and kasdan to panic and, extremely awkwardly, act like she said 'darth vegas.' like, snoke is such a silly name that it was obviously a cover. the other problem is that tfa was assembled to engender speculation. it was not presented as a movie or a story but a life-changing cultural touchstone. remember how much of the pre-release material was, like, who is the mysterious kylo ren? what is the first order? who is rey and who is finn? why doesn't han have the falcon? where is luke? the first film continues that, setting up mysteries by leaving huge gaps in the story, and then being suprised that none of it makes sense. tfa, however, does present certain aspects of ren's character and his past and history and relationship to snoke which tlj actively retcons, not just including the scar. it's just a mess from start to finish. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Apr 27, 2019 |
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Apr 27, 2019 07:06
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:it's difficult to determine, but here are some various bits and pieces drat dude this sounds so retarded
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Apr 27, 2019 07:14
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“We bought this franchise just loving do something, anything, with it. We need to make money now. I don’t care, just do something.” “Oh gently caress cancel everything! Where did we go wrong?”
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Apr 27, 2019 07:16
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The one semi-interesting thing in TLJ was the tension and interplay between Kylo and Rey. For a second there I thought the movie was going to have some courage and have them team up, or maybe even Rey go full heel while Kylo is redeemed. But nah, he just goes back to being a sneering emo villain and Rey continues on her unearned hero's journey.
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Apr 27, 2019 07:18
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Chomp8645 posted:They didn't really have a "plan" it seems, but JJ at least had ideas about where he thought things should go based on what he'd set up. He passed that information to Rian, who promptly said "didn't read lol" and I guess just willfully threw everything off the rails because he thought it would be funny. I think it's objectively hilarious, and if he'd turned down the iconoclasm to like 40% instead of 95% it would have been a classic. There are actually a bunch of neat bits in the film, it just gets destroyed by fridge logic and the obsessive need to jam every interaction into the procrustean bed of The Theme, chopping off the bits that don't fit.
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Apr 27, 2019 07:22
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get me HQ! posted:drat dude this sounds so retarded yeah. it's why disney has been putting so much effort into presenting this idea that everything has been smooth sailing. rlm pointed this out in their tlj video, i think. the most obvious exception to this is the costume designer in the tlj behind the scenes who is obviously very unhappy with everything rian is suggesting, and has publically said that he thought destroying kylo's mask was a waste. hamill's criticisms of the ST seem to come from a place of having been in contact with lucas through the initial production process and lucas has basically hated all of the ST with the exception of rogue one. i believe someone, maybe ford, said that lucas was key to getting him back onboard. so, as soon as they had the cast, seems like disney cut lucas free. anyway, disney also prohibited any further 'making of' books and shut down the blog of, iirc, the writer of those books who had been documenting the TFA making-of process early in production. we'll probably never know the specifics but there's plenty of data points to plot.
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Apr 27, 2019 07:23
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what a loving mess, goddamn
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Apr 27, 2019 07:25
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oh, and another rumor was that rian's trilogy would be episodes 10, 11, 12 and that episode 9 wouldn't conclude the rey and kylo story. this would explain why the only thing disney said about it was that it was set in a period of time that had never been explored before. but now they've said that all new star wars films are on hiatus, so.
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Apr 27, 2019 07:25
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:it's difficult to determine, but here are some various bits and pieces that thing where rey finds luke and there are just a ton of boulders floating around and poo poo does sound extremely like something george lucas would write
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Apr 27, 2019 07:37
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Gutcruncher posted:“We bought this franchise just loving do something, anything, with it. We need to make money now. I don’t care, just do something.” "Don't worry, just toss out anything! The built in fans will eat it up!" *fails to recoup investment* "Well gently caress"
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Apr 27, 2019 07:38
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QuarkJets posted:that thing where rey finds luke and there are just a ton of boulders floating around and poo poo does sound extremely like something george lucas would write i'm pretty sure it's actually in the making of TFA art book, which features a bunch of art that lucas picked out as things to use in tfa. another of these was that red twi'lek sith lady from the old EU (Talon?) who was apparently in the works to be an antagonist along with the jedi-killer concept (who became kylo ren). which makes sense when you remember that he added the blue twi'lek lady to episode 2 and 3 simply because he saw some art of her he liked. blue in the PT, red in the ST. poetry, rhymes.
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Apr 27, 2019 07:39
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:i'm pretty sure it's actually in the making of TFA art book, which features a bunch of art that lucas picked out as things to use in tfa. another of these was that red twi'lek sith lady from the old EU (Talon?) who was apparently in the works to be an antagonist along with the jedi-killer concept (who became kylo ren). which makes sense when you remember that he added the blue twi'lek lady to episode 2 and 3 simply because he saw some art of her he liked. blue in the PT, red in the ST. poetry, rhymes. Pretty sure there was a blue twilek in the OT. Jabba's Palace yeah?
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Apr 27, 2019 07:45
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I just remembered that old Jedi Academy game. There was no way to dress your character like anything but a hobo. When you think about it jedis are basically itinerant hobos with laser swords.
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Apr 27, 2019 07:46
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Chomp8645 posted:Pretty sure there was a blue twilek in the OT. Jabba's Palace yeah? green my god he'd have had the whole rgb spectrum
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Apr 27, 2019 07:51
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If anyone can do animations I think a "mark's milkers" gangtag with luke milking the walrus would be a fantastic addition to the forums
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Apr 27, 2019 07:51
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:green *Mickey muses over a cigar with Goofy* "I'm going to get a dark skinned actress and make her a purple one. We'll call it symmetry or some rubbish because Sam Jackson had a purple lightsaber. The crazy lore people will go nuts trying to justify it within their own head canon."
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Apr 27, 2019 07:52
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A dude with no powers who hunts down and murders jedi could be a pretty cool thing set in like a completely different era but it seems like a pretty stupid idea for a sequel trilogy
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Apr 27, 2019 07:57
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:green No hold on. There is the advisor guy, he's green I think. But isn't there a blue female one too? I think she tries to choke Jabba then gets dropped in the pit. Stop erasing Twileks!
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Apr 27, 2019 08:01
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DancingShade posted:I just remembered that old Jedi Academy game. There was no way to dress your character like anything but a hobo. the hosed up part is george lucas could have chosen literally any costume for the jedi in the prequel trilogy to wear but he's a lovely lazy person so he made obi-wan's desert hermit robes the official uniform for all of the jedi
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Apr 27, 2019 08:05
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The biggest mistake of the prequel movies was giving the jedi space fighters when they should have hitched rides in the cargo containers of space trains to get anywhere, while playing the space harmonica.
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Apr 27, 2019 08:07
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Chomp8645 posted:No hold on. There is the advisor guy, he's green I think. But isn't there a blue female one too? I think she tries to choke Jabba then gets dropped in the pit. Bibb Fortuna (Jabba’s Majordomo) was super pale white. Oola, the dancer, was green. Source: wore the vhs out trying to catch the nip slip.
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Apr 27, 2019 08:10
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Dang my Twilek game is not on point.
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Apr 27, 2019 08:11
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QuarkJets posted:A dude with no powers who hunts down and murders jedi could be a pretty cool thing set in like a completely different era but it seems like a pretty stupid idea for a sequel trilogy I remember being pumped about him as a kid from the previews and then hugely disappointed in how he died like a chump in the movie.
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Apr 27, 2019 08:41
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Bistromatic posted:You mean like Griveous? No not like Grievous, I mean someone who is effective and can actually kill jedi with clever plans and ingenuity not a badly-named robot with smoker's cough who gets clowned on over and over by obi-wan
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Apr 27, 2019 08:49
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Imagine being told you get to write a movie script for star wars. "Yes!" But the main villain you must use is General Hux and you have to make him seem like a credible threat. "gently caress"
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Apr 27, 2019 09:20
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any good screenwriter could spin a good story out of that kind of opportunity - general hux reveals that his whiny incompetence was a facade; he presses a few buttons on his wrist and reveals that he was Thrawn all along and had engineered the fall of snoke - general hux directly speaks to the audience and threatens to replace the rest of the movie's runtime with The Star Wars Holiday Special if they don't stop booing at him - general hux peels off his face and reveals that he's actually a cenobite; episode 9 becomes a canonical entry in the hellraiser series
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Apr 27, 2019 10:13
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:it's difficult to determine, but here are some various bits and pieces ow my brain
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Apr 27, 2019 10:51
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The worst thing about the ST for me is the complete lack of any interesting and memorable new designs (BB-8 being the exception, but only because they ripped him from McQuarrie's old arts). Everything feels like a more boring version of originals. New planets either look like places we've already seen or are generic and nondescript. New aliens look like walking scrotums. Kylo Ren looks like a bad guy from a SW video game tie-in. Snoke was a low-budget Palpatine with a dash of Gollum. And the less said about the uncanny valley monstrosities that pass for cute in this series (see: Porgs and those fox-horses with creepy humanlike faces), the better. Prequels might have been silly, but at least they had some visual flare!
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Apr 27, 2019 10:53
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They shoulda just brought the Marvel people in to do the star war. The marvel movies are bad, but look at all the poo poo they manage to juggle while still being mostly comprehensible. Meanwhile TLJ takes 2.5 hours to drive from not-alderaan down the street to not-hoth and yet it's swisscheesed with plot holes.
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Apr 27, 2019 11:01
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font color sea posted:The worst thing about the ST for me is the complete lack of any interesting and memorable new designs (BB-8 being the exception, but only because they ripped him from McQuarrie's old arts). Everything feels like a more boring version of originals. New planets either look like places we've already seen or are generic and nondescript. New aliens look like walking scrotums. Kylo Ren looks like a bad guy from a SW video game tie-in. Snoke was a low-budget Palpatine with a dash of Gollum. And the less said about the uncanny valley monstrosities that pass for cute in this series (see: Porgs and those fox-horses with creepy humanlike faces), the better. Prequels might have been silly, but at least they had some visual flare! someone post the image comparing ST alien designs with PT alien designs, it's insane
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Apr 27, 2019 11:04
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DancingShade posted:These problems always start at the top. It's easy to blame JJ or RJ but ultimately KK was the boss and hired them in the first place. QuarkJets posted:the hosed up part is george lucas could have chosen literally any costume for the jedi in the prequel trilogy to wear but he's a lovely lazy person so he made obi-wan's desert hermit robes the official uniform for all of the jedi They went through a number of different concepts (an early draft describes Obi-Wan's outfit as all black), e.g.  But eventually they settled for desert robes, perhaps to hint that the Jedi were kind of like the medieval monasteries, which were extremely rich and powerful as an institution but whose members still dressed like hobos for symbolic reasons. Whatever the reason, some thought seems to have gone into the decision.
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Apr 27, 2019 11:25
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Mooey Cow posted:We know very little of what goes on behind the scenes of these Disney movies. For all we know, Bob Iger himself could have demanded that Kennedy make the sequels as reminiscent of the OT as possible. She has a pretty impressive track record as a producer in the past, so something seems a bit weird here. Early onset senility?
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Apr 27, 2019 11:40
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