Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

Milkfred E. Moore: Aug 27, 2006; 'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

it seems like they wanted to get a film out ASAP and also do everything in their power to be, like, hey, we're not like the prequels! practical sets! no silly looking aliens! no politics! etc. etc.

# ? Apr 27, 2019 11:43

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 01:41

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Milkfred E. Moore posted:

it seems like they wanted to get a film out ASAP and also do everything in their power to be, like, hey, we're not like the prequels! practical sets! no silly looking aliens! no politics! etc. etc.

But it had plenty of silly looking aliens and baby's first attempt at politics.

# ? Apr 27, 2019 12:35

Milkfred E. Moore: Aug 27, 2006; 'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

DancingShade posted:

But it had plenty of silly looking aliens and baby's first attempt at politics.

and the prequels had plenty of practical sets, too. the point is that disney was arguing against memes and people bought it until they realized disney hadn't replaced it with anything substantial. like, it's no mistake that they cut this whole political subplot with leia and her advisor seeking help from the republic and warning them about the first order from TFA (she's the character who shows up front and center when not-coruscant is blown up)

hosnian prime was also obviously coruscant at some point but disney has some serious misgivings about referencing anything from the prequels, with the singular exception the name of 'darth sidious'

# ? Apr 27, 2019 12:44

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

RaySmuckles posted:

that movie was absolute trash

but i have to say, it found a tiny bit of its own footing by the end. part of it felt like it was a meta-narrative about "star wars" in the first place, what with the holy jedi texts and an emphasis on "letting go" and then a refocusing on "rebuilding the rebellion." but i wouldn't say any of that was good, and each time it started to do something interesting it quickly undid it like "oops, the jedi texts are actually here too" and luke dying anyway for no reason (lol)

i guess the film put a major emphasis on "subverting expectation" but almost always did so in a way that was never satisfying or enjoyable. every step in the right direction was followed by one in the wrong.

the movies seem irrevocably hamstrung by two things:

1) perpetually directly imitating the original trilogy. it always feels contrived and forced and i don't think it ever works. it robs the movies of their ability to ever do anything original or interesting. its too frequent and noticeable and feels cheap and uninspired. makes sense rian johnson seemed to focus so much on trying to cut that dead weight and try to start from scratch. the movie was trash in almost every way (looked pretty good), but if that was his intention then it was a good one. he either failed miserably at it or was never allowed to actually make it happen

2) the material plot. the first order was a terrible mistake. its existence robs the original trilogy of any meaning or value. they're way too strong and are never explained making them the most hollow "movie bad guys" i've ever come across. the new trilogy needed to ape the original so badly it had to keep the good guys as "the rebels" even though the whole point of the OT is that the rebels won and are presumably no longer "rebels" in the first place. the creators just couldn't let that go and move one.

also, didn't the rebels just blow up the first order's superweapon/main base/home planet in the first movie? didn't they just kill all the bad guys? how the heck does "the first order reigns." how do they have all this stuff that is even better than the combined resources of the galactic empire?

i get it, they're just "the empire all over again" but that's stupid as hell and even stupider that they're "the empire but bigger and stronger" with no explanation. at least the word "empire" did a poo poo load of heavy lifting for the audience. "first order" doesn't do poo poo. "who cares, they're just the baddies" is a weak excuse. give the audience some credit for wanting even the barest semblance of setting/plot

bonus round) there's no talking in this movie. no just sits around the dinner table complaining that they can't go to pilot academy. there's no time to settle into the setting and characters. everything moves too quickly and is way to amped up.

the jokes are almost uniformly bad

this movie kept forgetting its a kids' movie and keeps throwing in lowest common denominator pandering. its tacky

everything having to do with nature/animals/wildlife was awful

its clear that the two NT movies had different directors with different visions. this movie had some themes that would have been a fine start to the trilogy if they could have somehow merged it with the first one, cutting out the chaff. introduce rey, she catches up with the leaders of the republic who are being couped, end on red hoth, or something like that. shoulda saved the super death star for later

everything luke related was bad. it had to be bad though because the writing set it up to be bad. there's a saying that if there's something more interesting that happens in a flashback or exposition about the past then you're telling the wrong story. the jedi academy is interesting and deserves more than what we got about it. its something that should likely have featured prominently in the NT since its the most obvious continuation of the story from the OT. i can see how it would be so obviously challenging to do though

the "talking to each other like embarrassing like night texting" thing was awful. just terrible. awkward and stupid. if you need the characters to interact then find a way to put them somewhere together where they can't kill each other. in fact, this should have basically been the whole second movie. rey and kylo stuck somewhere where kylo trains rey but with an emphasis on the dark side (cuz that's what he knows); like an inverse yoda. i dunno, something like that.

oh yeah, a special lol at the fin/rose execution scene where phasma is right next to them and then suicide bombing happens and suddenly everyone in armor is dead, the good guys are fine, and phasma is somehow on the other end of the hanger

i can't emphasize enough that the last jedi was just painfully, annoyingly bad from start to finish. it wasn't fun to watch and was full of some of the worst scenes and arcs i've ever seen in movies, all of which was compounded because its so poorly aping superior movies

We know

# ? Apr 27, 2019 13:34

poisonpill: Nov 8, 2009; The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J1z0fiokzmE

# ? Apr 27, 2019 14:30

RaySmuckles: Oct 14, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Laterite posted:

The one semi-interesting thing in TLJ was the tension and interplay between Kylo and Rey. For a second there I thought the movie was going to have some courage and have them team up, or maybe even Rey go full heel while Kylo is redeemed. But nah, he just goes back to being a sneering emo villain and Rey continues on her unearned hero's journey.

when i saw the force awakens my first thought was, "oh they're just doing avatar (the animated tv show) but star wars." since avatar was really good i thought it was a good idea. rey has to train up as they go on some sort of adventure through the universe, eventually kylo joins them when he gets burned by the baddies, everyone becomes friends and rey becomes a jedi and defeats the big bad

we learn about friendship, forgiveness, hard work, etc

why didn't they just make that trilogy? the avatar story arc was freaking great and should basically be the blueprint of all "group of kids with special powers get together and grow and defeat the evil guys" stories forever

# ? Apr 27, 2019 15:58

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

Mooey Cow posted:

But eventually they settled for desert robes, perhaps to hint that the Jedi were kind of like the medieval monasteries, which were extremely rich and powerful as an institution but whose members still dressed like hobos for symbolic reasons. Whatever the reason, some thought seems to have gone into the decision.

Take a moment to appreciate this post everyone. Rarely do we get to see someone so thoroughly miss the point.

Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Apr 27, 2019

# ? Apr 27, 2019 16:05

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/1121835018282627073?s=20

# ? Apr 27, 2019 16:09

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

# ? Apr 27, 2019 16:14

get me HQ!: Jul 28, 2010; Aziz... spark that shit nigga

Mooey Cow posted:

They went through a number of different concepts (an early draft describes Obi-Wan's outfit as all black), e.g.

These rolly droids are cooler than anything in the ST

So the plan for ep 9 must be to ignore like most of what happened in ep 8 and basically be a soft reboot right? like other than luke/rey/kylo, there was not really any character or plot development other than "the resistance gets their rear end kicked" and nothing really requires follow up. So they just gotta open the title crawl with "a couple years passed and the resistance got more dudes on their side!" and then we can mostly forget that ep 8 happened.

# ? Apr 27, 2019 16:19

Laterite: Mar 14, 2007; It's Gutfest '89; Grimey Drawer

Moridin920 posted:

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/1121835018282627073?s=20

# ? Apr 27, 2019 16:37

TIP: Mar 21, 2006; Your move, creep.

Moridin920 posted:

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/1121835018282627073?s=20

Really fitting that Harrison Ford looks like he wants to die.

# ? Apr 27, 2019 18:38

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Tip posted:

Really fitting that Harrison Ford looks like he wants to die.

His last few acting gigs have been, "Reprise this role and we'll throw a wheelbarrow of cash at you". Dude obviously doesn't want to act (or at least put any effort into it) but he can't say no to tens of millions of dollars.

# ? Apr 27, 2019 19:00

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

Blistex posted:

His last few acting gigs have been, "Reprise this role and we'll throw a wheelbarrow of cash at you". Dude obviously doesn't want to act (or at least put any effort into it) but he can't say no to tens of millions of dollars.

I guess you could say he's...Harrison BORED.

# ? Apr 27, 2019 19:10

Analytic Engine: May 18, 2009; not the analytical engine

Big Beef City posted:

We know

# ? Apr 27, 2019 19:15

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Big Beef City posted:

I guess you could say he's...Harrison BORED.

He's looked that way on screen for the past decade.

# ? Apr 27, 2019 19:18

Moola: Aug 16, 2006

Big Beef City posted:

I guess you could say he's...Harrison BORED.

hahaha nice

# ? Apr 27, 2019 19:24

KillerJunglist: May 22, 2007; Lion of Judah protect you, Jah be praised.

I think the rest of Mark Hamill's life will be him bitching about these movies and how they could have been great if they just would have utilized the old cast better!

# ? Apr 27, 2019 19:27

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

Tip posted:

Really fitting that Harrison Ford looks like he wants to die.

That's been his facial expression for 40 years

# ? Apr 27, 2019 20:42

RaySmuckles: Oct 14, 2009; Grimey Drawer

i dunno, i found ford's work in hollywood homicide to be inspired

KillerJunglist posted:

I think the rest of Mark Hamill's life will be him bitching about these movies and how they could have been great if they just would have utilized the old cast better!

well, they should have been secondary characters at best. maybe even tertiary legendary figures that show up once individually per movie or something

but yes, they have been used terribly

# ? Apr 27, 2019 20:54

Moola: Aug 16, 2006

When the trailers for TFA came out I was excited to see a new trilogy with new characters, places, plots etc

It was gonna be neat to see another star wars trilogy that didn't rely on references to the OT like the prequels did

how naive I was

# ? Apr 27, 2019 21:14

BeanpolePeckerwood: May 4, 2004; I MAY LOOK LIKE SHIT BUT IM ALSO DUMB AS FUCK

KillerJunglist posted:

I think the rest of Mark Hamill's life will be him bitching about these movies and how they could have been great if they just would have utilized the old cast better!

that, and doing rad voice acting for every loving thing

# ? Apr 27, 2019 21:20

Winifred Madgers: Feb 12, 2002

KillerJunglist posted:

I think the rest of Mark Hamill's life will be him bitching about these movies and how they could have been great if they just would have utilized the old cast better!

Much like many of us.

# ? Apr 28, 2019 04:22

peanut: Sep 9, 2007

i enjoyed the disney star wars movies in theatre!

# ? Apr 28, 2019 10:27

Saint Drogo: Dec 26, 2011

Moridin920 posted:

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/1121835018282627073?s=20

'clarified' already.

mark hamil seems like a good dude. i can't wait to see his mind corroded by twitter until he's a bitter, hollow embarrassment.

# ? Apr 28, 2019 11:05

Milkfred E. Moore: Aug 27, 2006; 'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Moridin920 posted:

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/status/1121835018282627073?s=20

quote:

do you realize how insulting this is to the people working hard for years to make exciting new characters for us to enjoy? and how your tweets feed the hordes of �fanboys� who push people like daisy ridley and KMT off social media? are you even aware of your poor impact?

oh my god

# ? Apr 28, 2019 11:15

BexGu: Jan 9, 2004; This fucking day....

Saint Drogo posted:

'clarified' already.

mark hamil seems like a good dude. i can't wait to see his mind corroded by twitter until he's a bitter, hollow embarrassment.

The meltdown from that tweet calling Mark Hamil alt-right is a sight to behold.

BexGu fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Apr 28, 2019

# ? Apr 28, 2019 13:18

poisonpill: Nov 8, 2009; The only way to get huge fast is to insult a passing witch and hope she curses you with Beast-strength.

Milkfred E. Moore posted:

do you realize how insulting this is to the people working hard for years to make exciting new characters for us to enjoy?

Enjoy

# ? Apr 28, 2019 13:46

Blurry Gray Thing: Jun 3, 2009

Rian Johnson is like a kid who shows up to a piano recital, but then instead of playing the old familiar classical music, he plays five minutes of off-key notes and then just starts smashing the piano with a hammer, while screaming about capitalism and the false value we place on material possessions and the elephants who died to make pianos, and pianos are bougie Eurocentric trash, and poo poo, what kind of nerds go to piano recitals anyway?

Is he better at the piano than the boring kid who played a song we all heard before and got most of the notes right? No. He's really not. It's not even a contest, they aren't both doing something different but equally valid, one is pretty good at piano and the other one isn't.

Is he right? Yeah, maybe. But he didn't really do anything all that technically impressive, unique, or praise-worthy.

It's just not a well-made movie. The message and intent aren't the only thing that decides if the end product is good, the execution matters.

Then again, he really did smash a really expensive piano, and that was the only one they had, and now that first kid has to play it again. That's a spectacle, right there. Bet Rian knows what he did, too. He can't admit it or he might get sued, but I bet he knows.

# ? Apr 28, 2019 14:18

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Blurry Gray Thing posted:

Is he right? Yeah, maybe. But he didn't really do anything all that technically impressive, unique, or praise-worthy.

It's just not a well-made movie. The message and intent aren't the only thing that decides if the end product is good, the execution matters.

Then again, he really did smash a really expensive piano, and that was the only one they had, and now that first kid has to play it again. That's a spectacle, right there. Bet Rian knows what he did, too. He can't admit it or he might get sued, but I bet he knows.

He could have "subverted my expectations" to "11", but like you said it was not a good movie, it had a poor story, and it was full of characters I didn't care about or outright disliked. You want to subvert expectations? Take a look at "The Thing" and tell me on your first viewing you didn't expect Kurt Russell to live at the end? How about "Infernal Affairs"/"The Departed", hell even Cabin Fever or Teeth did it better. I think that Looper got a lot of positive press partly because the protagonist killed himself (subverted expectations), which Rian tried to replicate with TLJ and Luke.

The difference between those subverted expectations and TLJ was that they were (for the most part) good movies that included subverted expectations. They were not good movies because they subverted expectations.

# ? Apr 28, 2019 21:15

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

Every time you read the words 'subverted expectations' even ironically do it in Cartmans voice it makes it so much funnier omg

# ? Apr 28, 2019 21:34

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Big Beef City posted:

Every time you read the words 'subverted expectations' even ironically do it in Cartmans voice it makes it so much funnier omg

I'm now just imagining every interview Rian has given is now in Cartman's voice, and it's glorious. Thank you for this.

# ? Apr 28, 2019 21:39

Gutcruncher: Apr 16, 2005; Go home and be a family man!

Subverting expectations should be about giving audiences something they didn�t realize they wanted, not doing something incorrectly and crying about it when people say they don�t like it.

�ITS JUST MY STYLE!�

# ? Apr 29, 2019 16:00

Automatic Slim: Jul 1, 2007

My expectations were subverted in a good way on GoT last night. This thread was and TLJ was the first thing that crossed my mind afterwards.

# ? Apr 29, 2019 16:06

Just Chamber: Feb 10, 2014; WE MUST RETURN TO THE DANCE! THE NIGHT IS OURS!

Can't believe Mark Hamill turned out to be a Nazi :smith:

# ? Apr 29, 2019 16:20

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Just Chamber posted:

Can't believe Mark Hamill turned out to be a Nazi

He who kills Hitler, must become Hitler

# ? Apr 29, 2019 16:28

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Gutcruncher posted:

Subverting expectations should be about giving audiences something they didn�t realize they wanted, not doing something incorrectly and crying about it when people say they don�t like it.

�ITS JUST MY STYLE!�

Hell, a lot of the best "subverted expectations" have been things that the audience doesn't want, but accept because it's integral to the plot, or is part of a well-made story, or makes sense in the end.

The Departed, Fallen, Sin City, Looper*, Heat, Psycho, and The Thing all have instances of "subverted expectations" where the "hero" (or one of them) dies. The differences between them and TLJ is that they were usually part of a good story, with good and interesting characters that we cared about. You can also subvert expectation in other ways besides killing off a character.

Cabin Fever, From Dusk till Dawn, Teeth, all changed the genre mid-stream, and people who didn't know ahead of time were surprised (and generally pleased) with the change in pace/tone. I remember laughing my rear end off during both Teeth and Cabin Fever in the theatre (because I knew ahead of time that they were comedies) and people were getting pissed until ~1/2 way point when it became apparent.

You can also subvert expectations by adding twist endings that the audience didn't expect. M-Night was big on this, but other examples like The Crying Game, Frailty, and The Usual Suspects show that tricking the audience can be enjoyable when done right.

*I think since Rian got a lot of good reviews for Looper that mentioned the twist ending, and subverting expectations and he figured he would just try and translate that success into TLJ... maybe?

# ? Apr 29, 2019 16:48

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

My personal "subverted expectations in a good way" nomination: Bloodborne.

# ? Apr 29, 2019 16:52

Blistex: Oct 30, 2003; Macho Business
Donkey Wrestler

Chomp8645 posted:

My personal "subverted expectations in a good way" nomination: Bloodborne.

Mine would be "Unforgiven". It wasn't until like a day or so later when I out of the blue it struck me, "Waaaaaait! He was the bad guy?"

# ? Apr 29, 2019 16:54

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 01:41

Creamed Cormp: Jan 8, 2011; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Just Chamber posted:

Can't believe Mark Hamill turned out to be a Nazi

well he was a cis, heterosexual white male so really the signs were here from the start. Really amazed at how well his character was written that most of us didn't see it coming until the end.

# ? Apr 29, 2019 17:17

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