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JoelJoel posted:Naturally they redirect their anger towards management for screwing them out of paid sick days instead of the guy they elected who took away their sick days. unless they work for the province, this is entirely appropriate. ford didn’t outlaw sick days, and Management could choose to provide them.
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May 2, 2019 14:41
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Serf posted:maybe read zinn where he talks about how black slaves and white workers in the colonies did actually join forces on several occasions and had to be crushed by military force, and this was an issue until the introduction of the privileged white race concept
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May 2, 2019 14:43
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cargo cult posted:there was never a conception of a "unified underclass," fuckface. White supremacy has consistently defined itself in opposition to black slaves and their descendants. White sharecroppers could never have shared their underclass status. Yeah, it's almost like the system was constructed to prevent that from happening. Like... They didn't want the working class to unify 
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May 2, 2019 14:44
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Serf posted:maybe read zinn where he talks about how black slaves and white workers in the colonies did actually join forces on several occasions and had to be crushed by military force, and this was an issue until the introduction of the privileged white race concept While true you're also skipping over the entire conceit of the Atlantic Slave Trade in the first place. Which was an inherent sense of sub-humanity regarding Africans, and their acceptable status for just being scooped up and transported like cargo for hard labor purposes. Not to mention all the wonderful attitudes toward the natives before that. You're confusing an increasingly organized and manipulated white supremacism with invention.
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May 2, 2019 14:45
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I mean that’s more Europeans couldn’t justify enslaving each other while African tribes didn’t give a poo poo. That and Africans could actually survive doing the work that whites just couldn’t.
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May 2, 2019 14:47
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Subjunctive posted:unless they work for the province, this is entirely appropriate. ford didn’t outlaw sick days, and Management could choose to provide them. Management gets direction from our corporate owners. Not the types to give out sick days from the kindness of their hearts. Your argument is basically "well, the market will take care of it" and is deeply stupid. Labour laws are good because they don't leave it up to the capitalists to do what's best for the worker.
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May 2, 2019 14:47
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Grape posted:And I think lots of the people throwing that label around have internalized Republican propaganda about the urban/coasts being largely made up of latte sipping suburbs, and purposefully obscures that there are tons of minorities and even urban working class whites in these areas. i've seen this effect from the opposite end, where people assume that once you leave the city limits we're all gap-toothed white trash Subjunctive posted:ah, ok. I only know my relatives and a few friends when it comes to rural liberals (and I definitely don’t mean leftist), and they’re pretty different from what I see online, but it’s a pretty small sample and they’re people I have a bias towards anyway. I’ve found them much less likely to call people out on racist or...genderist? speech than urban counterparts, but I’d love to find something systematic to read. in my experience it depends on what sort of company you're in. white people keep their poo poo locked down if there's any non-white people in the room, but as soon as its all whites you'll hear some crazy poo poo. libs are the ones who will just chuckle nervously and pretend they didn't hear anything cargo cult posted:I don't feel obligated to read zinn to understand this is some one-off anecdote. The only ethnic group forced into legally recognized chattel slavery were African captives and their descendants. White rural peasants never shared their legal, social or economic status. and yet they were still able to recognize that in the social arrangement they all existed in, they had more common cause with the slaves than the masters. hence why they fought together and got owned together
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May 2, 2019 14:47
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cargo cult posted:urban liberals, in my conception are black, hispanic and asian liberals who represent the left wing of the democratic party spectrum. cargo cult posted:I am going to be honest I got triggered by that quote in question because Epic High Five asserted that rural white people will more readily join in (presumably left wing) revolution than urban liberals, despite the fact that urban liberals are actually the ones at the receiving end of state enforced white supremacy. I also really dislike the notion that White Supremacy in the red states is exclusively the province of upper middle class white people, who somehow manipulated working people into engaging in racist violence like lynchings. This to me sounds like fantastical revisionism. I'm pretty sure participation in pogroms and race riots isn't limited to class. From what I remember of American history some of the most strident and violent resistance to reconstruction came from white peasants who wanted to at least have a place in the caste system higher than freedmen.
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May 2, 2019 14:47
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean that’s more Europeans couldn’t justify enslaving each other while African tribes didn’t give a poo poo. the Africans didn’t survive either.
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May 2, 2019 14:48
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:The actual definition of white genocide is race mixing driven by white women rejecting white men, so it is good actually. This is how white supremacists understand and use the term, so it’s not like people have ever used it to describe an actual antifa pogrom against car dealership managers or something, except without understanding how the term is used. Whoah holy poo poo, really? I seriously didn't know this and thank you for pointing it out. I'm not loving around here. If that's really the case then yes I 100000% support it.
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May 2, 2019 14:48
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euphronius posted:the Africans didn’t survive either. I mean they survived the diseases. the trip there was.....another matter
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May 2, 2019 14:49
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean that’s more Europeans couldn’t justify enslaving each other while African tribes didn’t give a poo poo. 
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May 2, 2019 14:49
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Agean90 posted:Yeah, it's almost like the system was constructed to prevent that from happening. Like... They didn't want the working class to unify
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May 2, 2019 14:50
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean that’s more Europeans couldn’t justify enslaving each other while African tribes didn’t give a poo poo.
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May 2, 2019 14:51
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean they survived the diseases. what is your source.
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May 2, 2019 14:51
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urban liberals are all black, latinx, and asian, and are secret socialists who love to vote for AOC rural people, on the other hand, are all terrible goblins who hate freedom and deserve to die also voter suppression is a fake idea. i am very woke.
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May 2, 2019 14:52
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I mean what is wrong with. that? They couldn’t. Africans still had slavery and the Euros used that. lol I’m not making a they are savages argument
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May 2, 2019 14:52
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worker solidarity is impossible because whites have an extra racism bone
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May 2, 2019 14:53
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Elephant Ambush posted:Whoah holy poo poo, really? I seriously didn't know this and thank you for pointing it out. I'm not loving around here. Everybody fucks until we're all the same color. The happiest overthrow of the racist order.
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May 2, 2019 14:53
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Serf posted:i've seen this effect from the opposite end, where people assume that once you leave the city limits we're all gap-toothed white trash Indeed. The bottom line here is ironically as we're discussing divide and conquer techniques regarding race/ethnicity, this is a geographical form of the same. And lots of left folk going both ways are kinda odor blind on it.
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May 2, 2019 14:53
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Halloween Jack posted:So the problem here is that you're a reactionary: that is, you make no effort to understand people who disagree with you, and you entertain bizarre, paranoid fantasies about us. Have fun with that!
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May 2, 2019 14:55
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Grape posted:Tribalistic thinking is absolutely a common theme across time and space throughout human history. When upper classes utilize it they're taking advantage of a pre-existing bug, not inventing it whole-cloth. cargo cult posted:I don't feel obligated to read
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May 2, 2019 14:55
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cargo cult posted:White peasants and African slaves weren't part of the same "working class." Your suggestion that they were is literal neo-confederate apologia, hth. Yeah they weren't, because the society of the south is constructed in such a way as to make that separation exant. Which means we need to reject the system pushed by the ruling elite in favor of one that's based around egalitarianism and equality. Which is what people here argue not whatever bizzare poo poo your talking about.
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May 2, 2019 14:56
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euphronius posted:what is your source. literally anything about plantation economics, especially early plantation economics.
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May 2, 2019 14:56
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean what is wrong with. that? They couldn’t. Africans still had slavery and the Euros used that. So you're saying Europeans were against slavery, except for when they were using exotic others.
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May 2, 2019 14:57
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Halloween Jack posted:So the problem here is that you're a reactionary: that is, you make no effort to understand people who disagree with you, and you entertain bizarre, paranoid fantasies about us. Have fun with that!
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May 2, 2019 14:57
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CharlestheHammer posted:literally anything about plantation economics, especially early plantation economics. what is it then in your opinion that makes black people better suited for plantation work compared to non black People.
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May 2, 2019 14:57
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Zeroisanumber posted:Everybody fucks until we're all the same color. The happiest overthrow of the racist order. Yeah, this. Not sure how the idea of literal genocide being good gets traction here, ffs.
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May 2, 2019 14:57
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean what is wrong with. that? They couldn’t. Africans still had slavery and the Euros used that.
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May 2, 2019 14:58
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Zeroisanumber posted:Everybody fucks until we're all the same color. The happiest overthrow of the racist order. Yeah except if there's still differing cultural groups that won't matter at all. Old World racism doesn't actually require people to look any different from one another. And we drat sure shouldn't be wishing for cultural homogeneity.
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May 2, 2019 14:58
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Grape posted:So you're saying Europeans were against slavery, except for when they were using exotic others. oh no, they weren’t against slavery, they just couldn’t justify doing it to other Euros.
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May 2, 2019 14:58
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cargo cult posted:I also really dislike the notion that White Supremacy in the red states is exclusively the province of upper middle class white people, who somehow manipulated working people into engaging in racist violence like lynchings. Halloween Jack posted:Fortunately, no one outside of your head ever said this! cargo cult posted:thinking that white rurals are largely white supremacist reactionaries isn't a bizarre paranoid fantasy Halloween Jack has issued a correction as of 15:03 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 14:59
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CharlestheHammer posted:oh no, they weren’t against slavery, they just couldn’t justify doing it to other Euros.
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May 2, 2019 14:59
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Agean90 posted:Yeah they weren't, because the society of the south is constructed in such a way as to make that separation exant. Which means we need to reject the system pushed by the ruling elite in favor of one that's based around egalitarianism and equality. Which is what people here argue not whatever bizzare poo poo your talking about.
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May 2, 2019 15:00
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classic slavery was different from what was practiced by the white supremacists in the new world.
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May 2, 2019 15:00
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Halloween Jack posted:
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May 2, 2019 15:02
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Grape posted:While true you're also skipping over the entire conceit of the Atlantic Slave Trade in the first place. Which was an inherent sense of sub-humanity regarding Africans, and their acceptable status for just being scooped up and transported like cargo for hard labor purposes. Not to mention all the wonderful attitudes toward the natives before that. Slavery as a widespread colonial economic practice slightly predates the development of a clear racial hierarchy. For example, Turks enslave Robinson Crusoe, and he’s not offended to be put alongside nonwhite slaves and is fine working alongside people of other races in order to escape, nor does he find the Turks to be racially inferior to him. I know it’s a novel, but it expresses racial attitudes in the imperial core circa 1690, which hadn’t yet solidified even though an international slave trade was already underway. Racial hierarchy is more of a consequence of economic arrangements rather than a cause of them: chattel slavery became racialized because it was already there and required justification as a practice, just as colonialism developed clear racial strata as the conquerors came to need reasons for the rule they established in their colonies.
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May 2, 2019 15:02
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like there wasn’t any real racial tensions in Haiti before the introduction of the race laws which set up the caste system that would dominate the country until well the end. Ironically it would also be what destroyed it as had the whites been a little less racist they would have been fine
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May 2, 2019 15:03
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Grape posted:Yeah except if there's still differing cultural groups that won't matter at all. Old World racism doesn't actually require people to look any different from one another. I'm willing to give fuckin' a shot.
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May 2, 2019 15:04
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Zeroisanumber posted:Everybody fucks until we're all the same color. The happiest overthrow of the racist order.
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