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Mammalian posted:Game of Thrones has had those OH poo poo moments over and over again, but the last time was when Cersei blew up the sept, it was amazing, I didn't expect it at all and it kicked rear end. Wasn't as subtle as it probably will be in the books but nothing is.
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May 8, 2019 16:08
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Tender Bender posted:Long post on page 297. Really enjoyed reading this, thanks for writing it all up.
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May 8, 2019 16:09
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Dr. Video Games 0112 posted:GRRM also said he loves Lost? I distinctly remember him saying he hated the ending to Lost, and that ending the series like that was something he wanted to avoid with his own story. (By avoiding an ending entirely, apparently).
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May 8, 2019 16:10
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Mammalian posted:Game of Thrones has had those OH poo poo moments over and over again, but the last time was when Cersei blew up the sept, it was amazing, I didn't expect it at all and it kicked rear end. Wasn't as subtle as it probably will be in the books but nothing is. that was the last cool surprising moment and they hosed it up by totally fumbling the aftermath. i was excited to see how things panned out with her alienating everyone and uhhh nope she's still in power and beat everybody else.
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May 8, 2019 16:16
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Didn't she try to play the septsplosion off as a tragic accident?
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May 8, 2019 16:19
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Crow Jane posted:Didn't she try to play the septsplosion off as a tragic accident? lol what are there leaky gas lines in Westeros?
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May 8, 2019 16:23
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My friend who is the most casual of Game of Thrones fans and isn't like us jaded nerds summed up the general public backlash I think by saying that the last episode was the first time he's actually been bored by the show, that he's normally at least engaged by the performances and actually considered turning it off half way through. I think the phrase "phoning it in" was uttered at one point. I was happy to welcome him to the light. Eagerly awaiting the last episode purely for the articles and backlash calling the ending the worst finale in history 
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May 8, 2019 16:25
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Everyone making GBS threads on this show now is wonderful
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May 8, 2019 16:26
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nooneofconsequence posted:lol what are there leaky gas lines in Westeros? It just hit me how incredibly easy it would have been for Cersei to go out to the public and say that the evil Targaryen queen sent spies to KL and blew up one of the previously hidden stashes of wildfire her father had stockpiled and solidify her grip on Westeros and poisoning any chance Dany had at winning the people.
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May 8, 2019 16:27
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nooneofconsequence posted:lol what are there leaky gas lines in Westeros? I'm not saying it was particularly convincing 
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May 8, 2019 16:27
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cersei hasnt done anything in two seasons she's just sat there squinting.
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May 8, 2019 16:30
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Crow Jane posted:Didn't she try to play the septsplosion off as a tragic accident? i can't recall if she did but having to deal with all the houses turning against her would've been more interesting (and made more sense) than what they went with.
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May 8, 2019 16:31
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Crow Jane posted:I'm not saying it was particularly convincing You'd think this might be part of the plot, a massive green explosion blows up the sept (in a medieval setting where explosions are virtually unknown), and you might think the million peasants living there would wonder about who did it, and if they're even safe in their homes now. If this was a season 3 event, it almost certainly would be.
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May 8, 2019 16:32
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No Cersei doesn't shrug responsibility for the explosion, nor should she have. That's why its such a great turning point - her influence has been gradually eroding away, she looks like she's on the cusp of losing the game of thrones, her enemies all gather in one place... and she does exactly what she did when it looked like Ned was about to dethrone her, flip the table, and demonstrate that if you are willing to stop playing by the rules everyone else does and make use of sheer unrestrained violence then you can sweep all your opponents off the board. It's the last time the show does a really good "where does power reside?" moment. It resides with Cersei in King's Landing because she was willing to go further than anyone else.
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May 8, 2019 16:35
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Lol that this show is ending on “women be crazy amirite?”
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May 8, 2019 16:41
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Alchenar posted:No Cersei doesn't shrug responsibility for the explosion, nor should she have. That's why its such a great turning point - her influence has been gradually eroding away, she looks like she's on the cusp of losing the game of thrones, her enemies all gather in one place... and she does exactly what she did when it looked like Ned was about to dethrone her, flip the table, and demonstrate that if you are willing to stop playing by the rules everyone else does and make use of sheer unrestrained violence then you can sweep all your opponents off the board. Yeah and everyone just shrugs and sticks with the mad queen that just blew up a church and murdered the entire court including her own son the king and beloved people like Margaery and the High Septon. There's no revolt, no one tries to depose her, she just gets to take the throne without having a claim to it. Lords all over bend the knee, not worrying about the fact that she might murder them at any point, not caring that they could just support the Targaryen that just showed up with three dragons, instead. Even Jaime doesn't care about his dead son or the fact that she did exactly the thing he killed the Mad King for. It was a great scene but the fact that she suffered no consequences for what she did is insane.
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May 8, 2019 16:44
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Raccooon posted:Lol that this show is ending on “women be crazy amirite?” The show has been building up Dany's targ crazy gradually since season 1, but for some reason a lot of people refuse to accept that.
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May 8, 2019 16:44
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TheRat posted:The show has been building up Dany's targ crazy gradually since season 1, but for some reason a lot of people refuse to accept that. Her examples of crazy were executing slavers and enemies during war. Not very convincing. Only works if you apply modern morally only to her and no one else in the show. Really the audiences only knows to see this is bad because of close shot of Tyrion with concern on his face. Raccooon fucked around with this message at 16:50 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 16:46
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Raccooon posted:Her examples of crazy were executing slavers and enemies during war. Not very convincing. Only works if you apply modern morally only to her and no one else in the show. Or you know, being really happy when her husband explained how he was going to rape and murder everyone in westeros. Or when she burned a rape-victim alive for having the audacity of not helping the warlord who raped and pillaged her entire village. Or when she randomly crucified a bunch of nobles who had done nothing related to slavery. Or when she burned two people alive for refusing to kneel to her as an invading conqueror. Or when she told Varys she would burn him alive if he ever crossed her again. Or all the times she's been going on about how the iron throne is her birth right. The signs have been there from the start. You just don't want to see them.
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May 8, 2019 16:51
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When Dany gets pissed she destroys civilizations. They might not be nice civilizations, but still. She's like 3 deep and working on her 4th.
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May 8, 2019 16:52
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Locking someone to die in a vault is also a particularly cruel death. Even Jaime, whom she hates, would never do that to somebody. Her first interaction with anybody is also to demand they kneel and flaunt her dragons/threaten to burn them. She is a maniac It's her own fault people would rather follow Jon, she's a raging rear end in a top hat and he's a kind but strong leader who should rule - but he isn't demanding it from anyone. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 16:54
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TheRat posted:Or you know, being really happy when her husband explained how he was going to rape and murder everyone in westeros. Or when she burned a rape-victim alive for having the audacity of not helping the warlord who raped and pillaged her entire village. Or when she randomly crucified a bunch of nobles who had done nothing related to slavery. Or when she burned two people alive for refusing to kneel to her as an invading conqueror. Or when she told Varys she would burn him alive if he ever crossed her again. Or all the times she's been going on about how the iron throne is her birth right. in fairness it seems a lot of the show's fanbase is in the same boat. she's very popular despite being awful. Elman posted:Yeah and everyone just shrugs and sticks with the mad queen that just blew up a church and murdered the entire court including her own son the king and beloved people like Margaery and the High Septon. yeah it's a bummer. would've been a far more interesting way to do the show but they had to fast forward through everything in the subsequent seasons.
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May 8, 2019 16:56
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TheRat posted:Or you know, being really happy when her husband explained how he was going to rape and murder everyone in westeros. Or when she burned a rape-victim alive for having the audacity of not helping the warlord who raped and pillaged her entire village. Or when she randomly crucified a bunch of nobles who had done nothing related to slavery. Or when she burned two people alive for refusing to kneel to her as an invading conqueror. Or when she told Varys she would burn him alive if he ever crossed her again. Or all the times she's been going on about how the iron throne is her birth right. All of this except for the Tarlys has been portrayed as good things to the audience. That’s the problem. Bad writing leading to and she goes crazy at the end.
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May 8, 2019 16:57
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Raccooon posted:All of this except for the Tarlys has been portrayed as good things to the audience. That’s the problem. Bad writing leading to and she goes crazy at the end. Has it? I must have missed the "this is a good thing!!!" flashing neon-signs that came with it.
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May 8, 2019 16:58
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TheRat posted:Has it? I must have missed the "this is a good thing!!!" flashing neon-signs that came with it. She’s literally a strong woman icon because of it.
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May 8, 2019 16:58
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Raccooon posted:All of this except for the Tarlys has been portrayed as good things to the audience. That’s the problem. Bad writing leading to and she goes crazy at the end. There have been multiple times her actions have been questioned / consequences shown, such as that Noble whose father opposed slavery being crucified.
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May 8, 2019 16:59
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Raccooon posted:She’s literally a strong woman icon because of it. That's because people chose to ignore all the loving horrible poo poo she does. The signs are all there for everyone to see.
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May 8, 2019 17:00
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She acts more like a child than like someone with bloodlust. I just can't imagine her commanding any authority without her half suck up enablers (two of whom are dead, and two of whom no longer want to support her). Jeez she just cannot act can she.
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May 8, 2019 17:03
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TheRat posted:The signs have been there from the start. You just don't want to see them. I mean, I completely agree with you, it's just that the show itself has framed most of those moments as heroic and just instead of setting her up to be exactly as she has been in the last episode from the start. It's all in the way the scenes are shot, the music is played, the other characters react to it and, especially, the way Emilia Clarke has been directed to act. In the first seasons, whenever she was doing something horrible, she was shown as a warrior queen - or the only ones calling her out on her actions were either bad people themselves, or shown as bad people from her point of view. She is saying the same thing (although they have more bluntly accentuated the "I'll burn innocents to save the innocents" aspect of it a bit), it's just the way it's been presented by the show that has changed drastically over 2 episodes, instead of over 2 seasons. Remember that the world is full of people that were convinced Walter White was a good guy after all a few seasons deep in Breaking Bad.
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May 8, 2019 17:03
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Nobody thought Walter White was a good guy. Watching him succeed was exciting because doing what he did was deeply fulfilling for him, which is the entire premise of the show.
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May 8, 2019 17:04
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She's on the whole portrayed as doing the same things any other King or Queen would do in times of war or when they're conquering land to secure their power in the world of Westeros. She's painted as being just as strong as any male leader in the show and that is empowering as a female character. If we start putting today's morality behind her actions sure they're heinous but she's never gone as far as being Dragon Hitler which the show seems to be pushing her towards so they make her inevitable loss to Jon palatable for those who are fans of her.
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May 8, 2019 17:04
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TheRat posted:That's because people chose to ignore all the loving horrible poo poo she does. The signs are all there for everyone to see. Again bad writing did this. The show portrayed her as a liberator who made mistakes for most it. Not unhinged crazy person.
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May 8, 2019 17:05
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They have totally failed in selling Daenerys's heel turn, because her storyline has always focused on her overcoming obstacles. If they wanted this final turn to land, they needed to give her a point-of-no-return moment where she loses our support by going too far and crossing the line. Most of these crimes are framed as her fighting back against outside forces or using unpleasant means to reach an arguably just end. They needed to give her a moment where it became impossible to justify her actions. Take a look at Breaking Bad or the Sopranos, both had moments where the viewer had to realize that no amount of justification could forgive their crimes. For Walter White it was poisoning the kid and for Tony Soprano it was murdering Christopher . If they wanted to sell Dany as the villain they needed better writing. Which could be the subtitle for this whole season (and a lot of the last one). Game of Thrones: We need better writing
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May 8, 2019 17:05
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Also the Tarly's deserved to get burned 
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May 8, 2019 17:07
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yeah both TheRat and The Italian Guy are right - she's clearly a bad person but the reason she got the fanbase she did was the show frames her as doing good poo poo. still weird she got a fanbase considering the show ground to a halt whenever it cut back to essos.
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May 8, 2019 17:07
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No Wave posted:Nobody thought Walter White was a good guy. Watching him succeed was exciting because doing terrible things was deeply fulfilling for him, which is the entire premise of the show. You may have not payed attention to the Internet seriously, there were people defending his actions after he lets Jesse's GF die.Our Lady of the Dragons had the advantage of having Emilia Clarke showing pride, with fanfares playing in the backgound, badass oneliners and dragons flying around - so of course people are surprised now. It's a big tonal shift to pull compared to before, even if the actions are the same.
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May 8, 2019 17:07
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Just Chamber posted:She's on the whole portrayed as doing the same things any other King or Queen would do in times of war or when they're conquering land to secure their power in the world of Westeros. She's painted as being just as strong as any male leader in the show and that is empowering as a female character. If we start putting today's morality behind her actions sure they're heinous but she's never gone as far as being Dragon Hitler which the show seems to be pushing her towards so they make her inevitable loss to Jon palatable for those who are fans of her. Burning people alive is pretty loving bad in terms of westerosi morality too my friend.
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May 8, 2019 17:08
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They also need better acting If Daenerys actually came off as someone you could ever be scared of or unsettled by things would be different. The scene where she watches Jon get praised should make you scared of what she'll do, but it made people feel sad for neglected Dany.
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May 8, 2019 17:08
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Alchenar posted:No Cersei doesn't shrug responsibility for the explosion, nor should she have. That's why its such a great turning point - her influence has been gradually eroding away, she looks like she's on the cusp of losing the game of thrones, her enemies all gather in one place... and she does exactly what she did when it looked like Ned was about to dethrone her, flip the table, and demonstrate that if you are willing to stop playing by the rules everyone else does and make use of sheer unrestrained violence then you can sweep all your opponents off the board. TheRat posted:Or you know, being really happy when her husband explained how he was going to rape and murder everyone in westeros. Or when she burned a rape-victim alive for having the audacity of not helping the warlord who raped and pillaged her entire village. Or when she randomly crucified a bunch of nobles who had done nothing related to slavery. Or when she burned two people alive for refusing to kneel to her as an invading conqueror. Or when she told Varys she would burn him alive if he ever crossed her again. Or all the times she's been going on about how the iron throne is her birth right.
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May 8, 2019 17:09
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That Italian Guy posted:You may have not payed attention to the Internet
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May 8, 2019 17:11
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