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Kanos posted:I don't feel like 0079 alone does a really good job of balancing the factions in that way, though. It doesn't do an incredible job of it on it's own, no, but it does a better job of it even on it's own than just about any other Gundam work. The fact that 0079 will spend "filler" episodes on the stories of random Zeon soldiers like the squad in "Time, Be Still" and Doan being a good part of the reason why, since it establishes the humanity of the antagonistic faction in a way that no other series really does. It doesn't help that a lot of the sequels (Zeta, ZZ, Victory, Wing, X, SEED, Destiny, G-Reco for instance) basically set the protagonist up to be in a morally cleaner third faction that comes out smelling like roses compared to either the Federation or Zeon analogues. Zeta at least initially makes some pretense at establishing AEUG as less than perfect in that AE are funding them and tries to use the AEUG as a personal army at times via Wong, but even there it's barely present and the Titans are so heinous that AEUG come off as squeaky clean in comparison. Neo Zeon are just kind of there for much of the show, but they're equally horrific in ZZ while the AEUG are even less objectionable as far as I recall. The Federation in 0079 are not a particularly awful faction, but I do think the show does a good job of establishing that (a) the leadership of the Federation are fairly callous about their soldiers, that (b) a lot of the command structure are bureaucratic dicks more concerned with form than function and that (c) some of the regular Federation soldiers can be assholes too. 00 Gundam is actually one of the few other series to show just how lovely the protagonist faction can be, because a large part of the conflict throughout is borne from the problematic elements of Celestial Being and either Aeolia's original plan having some shady elements or lovely people in Celestial Being subverting the plan for their own purposes. Darth Walrus posted:Haman was still in a workable position at the start of her final duel - Glemmy's rebellion had burned out, and the Federation was led by cowards who could be sent packing with a good bluff - but she deliberately put herself at a handicap when fighting Judau and suicided when she lost because she saw herself as beyond redemption. Her suicide wasn't an act of defiance - her last words are basically an apology to the guy she was fighting, and she goes out with a peaceful, relieved smile. How is "I'm glad I came back, because I met a strong guy like you" an apology, when she's spent the last 10 minutes repeatedly trying to kill him? Her suicide absolutely was an act of defiance and refusal to accept the position she was now in. Which, while she might have had some salvageable remnants when the duel started; she doesn't by the time it ends, because the mass produced Puru Clones appearing meant the death of the last of her commanders, while Mousa destroyed Core 3; events she was made aware of in both cases. She was down to one warship by the time the duel was done as far as I can figure. The line, to me at least, seems to suggest more that she's accepted her loss, but couldn't accept losing or what it meant for her, with her smile being more acceptance of her own suicide than that she was leaving the world in better hands or whatever. I really don't buy that handicap either, because she used her funnels liberally throughout their duel. More to the point, Judau destroyed them easily every time she deployed them, suggesting using them more would have been rather pointless. Gripweed posted:Which also sets up the rise of the Titans a lot better, imo, than conspiracies and megalomaniacal madmen. The Federation troops want to move on, rebuild, anything, but they can't because the Zeon remnants won't stop fighting. I don't even think you need any setup beyond the end of 0079 for the Titans honestly. The Titans to me seemed to be an analogue for America occupying Japan post war, which, while they brought prosperity and stability, also did a lot of bad poo poo too. A lot of retributive actions that flew under the radar for much of the world; presumably, because America controlled the country to some degree, and the rest of the world wasn't feeling too generous to Axis powers at the time. Negative feelings towards Spacenoids following the biggest war in history, with such a huge death toll seems like it's more than enough explanation for the winners to start acting high-handed and authoritarian towards the losers (or anyone affiliated with them) to me. Sam Sanskrit posted:One thing I think is kind of interesting is that Neo Zeon and the Pricipality of Zeon/ Zeon remnants are pretty different in terms of ideology but Neo Zeon’s legitamacy is always rooted in framing themselves with figures and images from the original Zeon. It seems like it has to be a comment on the way conservative movements in Japan like to throw back to “the good old days” of imperial Japan in order to gain support. Haman's Neo Zeon doesn't even seem to have much in the way of ideological differences with the Principality of Zeon really. She wanted to kill a poo poo load of people, conquer Earth for personal control of the Earthsphere and made some vague gestures towards notions of Contolism to do it (i.e. Newtypes, souls pulled by gravity and so on). Char was much the same really. He seemed to believe in his father's ideology more than Gihren or Haman, but his sincerity is still questionable at the end of the day. Vord posted:Did Zeon have conscripts? I imagine it's easier to lose half your population when you're actively shoving them down the gravity well especially when going up against a far larger enemy. They did manage to take over a decent chunk of earth and Granada on the moon. Gotta have people to hold that territory. It's open to interpretation, because while the show never comes out and says it, there's still several groups that seem like they're conscripted. The most prominent example being the squad featured in "Time, Be Still", who went out and faced the Gundam on foot with really basic supplies and a desperate plan on the promise that anyone who could defeat the Gundam would be allowed to go home. The fact they have no interest in the war, as well as the fact they were only given really simple gear (they weren't even allowed remote detonators and had to make do with timed bombs) suggests they're conscripts. Additionally, Ramba Ral talks about how he only accepted the mission to get revenge for Garma and is fighting in general to improve the lot of his men. Which, again, suggests his men's lot is put upon them. Finally, there's the student recruits used during A Baoa Qu, that "Arcsquad12" mentioned. Which, I honestly hadn't even really thought was implying conscription before because the wording (i.e. student recruits) to me implied they were already in a training academy; but is ambiguous enough it could mean school students pressed in to it now that he's mentioned it. Ethiser posted:I don’t see how Zeon could lose half its population. Was there ever any major fighting in Side 3 at any point of the war? It really doesn't seem like it. It's possible there was fighting around Side 3 in the opening weeks of the war, but going by the show and most side material, Zeon pretty much obliterated any Federation presence in space very quickly and restricted them to a ground war on Earth for the majority of the one year in the eponymous war and it's only in the closing episodes of the show that the Federation breaks that deadlock to advance in to space with any significant force again. At which point, the entire thrust of the Federation advancement is on a straight course to Side 3, but they never arrive there because the war ends at A Baoa Qu. The narrator also notes that Side 3 is the Side least touched by the war during the show. https://webmshare.com/Zxy1O https://webmshare.com/3jOqD https://webmshare.com/ojDBL The same narration goes in to how Sides 1, 2, 4 & 5 were completely destroyed, while Side 6 was heavily damaged during the war. None of which were allied with Zeon at any time that we know of, since the narrator specifically mentions that it was Side 3 that declared war on the Earth Federation; not a coalition of Sides, multiple Sides, Side 3 and it's allies or whatever. It's really hard to square away the idea Side 3 (i.e. Zeon) lost half it's population, when the other 5 Sides were Federation aligned and were completely annihilated. Unless the people in the colonies of Side 3 were packed in like Sardines, then even the destruction of lots of their colonies couldn't match that kind of death toll. Technically, there is actually 6 Sides during 0079, but Side 7 consisted of one colony cylinder, so it hardly counts. By the way, if anyone knows a webm hosting site that SA works with and means the webms appear naturally in a post when linked, rather than as clickable links; I'd appreciate a heads up. tsob fucked around with this message at 01:25 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 01:16
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Ethiser posted:I don’t see how Zeon could lose half its population. Was there ever any major fighting in Side 3 at any point of the war? i thought this was a translation issue and the line was supposed to be 'half of humanity is dead' or something similar.
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May 10, 2019 01:28
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Haman repeatedly goes for suicidal tactics against Judau in their final duel, and they both agree that she would have won (or at least put him in much more trouble) with more funnels - Judau yells at her for holding back, and she admits she did it to give him a chance. She then speaks her last words, in which she says that Judau and the Shangri-La kids are directly responsible for foiling her plans, and she's glad she met him. Taken together with everything else in that episode, it feels very much like she's trying to make him kill her as atonement for her crimes. There's also a clear throughline between Judah's final conversation with Haman, his rant at the Federation admiral (which includes a bit of interesting Deikunist rhetoric - 'who gave you the right to live on Earth?') and his decision to leave the solar system. Your take has very little to do with the actual text or subtext of the show, which to be honest is nothing new.
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May 10, 2019 02:03
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Darth Walrus posted:Haman repeatedly goes for suicidal tactics against Judau in their final duel, and they both agree that she would have won (or at least put him in much more trouble) with more funnels - Judau yells at her for holding back, and she admits she did it to give him a chance. She then speaks her last words, in which she says that Judau and the Shangri-La kids are directly responsible for foiling her plans, and she's glad she met him. Taken together with everything else in that episode, it feels very much like she's trying to make him kill her as atonement for her crimes. There's also a clear throughline between Judah's final conversation with Haman, his rant at the Federation admiral (which includes a bit of interesting Deikunist rhetoric - 'who gave you the right to live on Earth?') and his decision to leave the solar system. Neither of them say or imply that she would have won if she didn't hold back; all that either say is Judau noting she could have used her funnels more. That's literally it. There's nothing about wanting to give him "a chance" either, which seems like a really strained reading of the line "it was a one-on-one duel" in response to his statement she could have used her funnels more. Which, again, what does that mean when she uses funnels constantly throughout the fight, and he almost instantly disposes of them almost every time she does regardless? I'd also question again how her suicide is meant to be taken as atonement when she's spent the past several minutes trying to kill Judau and repeatedly rebuffed his attempts to turn her away from her course of action throughout the show? What, she repeatedly aims to kill him, both in a mobile suit and on foot in situations where it seems like he should have little to no chance of escape but really she was just trying to get him to kill her and she's just sorry about everything she's done? Despite the fact that only seconds beforehand she expresses apparently genuine regret that she couldn't kill everyone on Earth.
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May 10, 2019 02:33
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I thought Zeon went out to decapitate all the Fed-friendly colony sides and also the Feds tried to fight back with their navy, which incidentally popped or gassed a shitload of colonies.
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May 10, 2019 02:41
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tsob posted:Neither of them say or imply that she would have won if she didn't hold back; all that either say is Judau noting she could have used her funnels more. That's literally it. There's nothing about wanting to give him "a chance" either, which seems like a really strained reading of the line "it was a one-on-one duel" in response to his statement she could have used her funnels more. Which, again, what does that mean when she uses funnels constantly throughout the fight, and he almost instantly disposes of them almost every time she does regardless? Stories are created works where everything exists for a reason. Why do you think Tomino included that scene of Judau angrily asking why Haman didn't use more funnels after he destroys her suit? Seriously, you're showing a frankly baffling lack of media comprehension here.
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May 10, 2019 02:53
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Darth Walrus posted:Stories are created works where everything exists for a reason. Why do you think Tomino included that scene of Judau angrily asking why Haman didn't use more funnels after he destroys her suit? Stories are also more than the original author superficially writes them with the intent of saying, and their underlying biases inform the story just as much or more. Especially in a collaborative medium, where many hands influence the final work and not just one script writer. Just because the creator intends one thing does not mean that's what makes it to the final product, or that that's what the audience takes away from the final product because of interpretation. Why do you think I've asked what that line means when considering that she used funnels constantly during their fight and the fact they were completely ineffective? Something that's generally proven true in fights between named characters during the entire franchise, not just that one fight. Funnels are not some amazing weapon that should turn the tide on their own, and even Judau was destroying them with relative ease before that point with other enemies too.  "I think that "Z Gundam Part 2 (provisional title)" will continue to be written together with Mr. Yumiko Suzuki, but there is no concrete way to go about it. However, I was able to end my part in my own way, and I think that it is a pleasant ending. So I would like to go on a different series from part 1 in part 2 as the mood is again a new series." Also, Tomino wasn't heavily involved in ZZ and it was apparently more the work of two guys called Akinori Endo and Yumiko Suzuki as a creative presence, because Tomino wanted a different feel for ZZ as well as to work on Char's Counterattack (and it's various novelizations) during much of ZZ from what I gather. tsob fucked around with this message at 03:21 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 03:05
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tsob posted:Stories are also more than the original author superficially writes them with the intent of saying, and their underlying biases inform the story just as much or more. Especially in a collaborative medium, where many hands influence the final work and not just one script writer. Just because the creator intends one thing does not mean that's what makes it to the final product, or that that's what the audience takes away from the final product because of interpretation. Why do you think I've asked what that line means when considering that she used funnels constantly during their fight and they were completely ineffective? Something that's generally proven true in fights between named characters during the entire franchise, not just that one fight. Funnels are not some amazing weapon that would turn the tide, and even Judau was destroying them with relative ease before that point with other enemies too. This is a giant stretch based on evidence that you simply do not have in order to support an admittedly counterfactual reading, dude. Your question about the effectiveness of funnels is also nonsensical because a funnel is just a remote-guided beam gun, and beam guns can and do oneshot mobile suits all the time. Haman used less guns than she could have from less angles than she could have to set up an ambush, the ambush failed, they had a whole piece of voiced dialogue about it, and you're arguing that it was meaningless because of your baseless assumption that the staff chose to undermine the script... somehow? The gently caress?
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May 10, 2019 03:23
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At no point was I saying or implying that the staff "undermined" the script, and you don't seem to get that different creators might angle at different interpretations without conflict because they view the character/story differently and it leaks in to their creative endeavors without knowing intent. Or simply because of miscommunication in some cases. And also that a creators apparent wishes may not be what they end up putting on a page because of subconscious biases. As to the funnels though; Haman set up several ambushes using them, shooting large nets of funnel fire with multiple funnels or sniping from unexpected angles (including one Judau needed forewarning from Puru 2 to dodge). Shots that could have been lethal. Additionally, the Qubeley only has 10 funnels according to the Wikia and Judau destroys 5 or 6 inside Core 3 at the beginning of their fight, along with another handful when she forces him to Open Get outside the colony; so she can't have had too many more she could have set up complex firing solutions with, even assuming the animators fudged the funnel count a bit for the sake of drama. So again, how is she holding back or trying to get him to kill her exactly? Also, how does her line imply regret for her actions when a minute or so before hand she angrily states that she refuses to stand down or let go of her hate? She rebuffs his attempts to influence her regularly during the show and shows no desire to change her plans or regret for them or the need for them at any other moment during the show, so a sudden about face when she's been professing belief in her attitude and/or plans up to a minute or so before hand doesn't make particular sense. On the other hand, Haman expressing happiness at having met someone she had a connection with and who understood her on some level (even if they didn't agree with her) before she died regardless of how they met (or parted) makes sense considering how badly she seems to have taken Char's rejection of her and the loneliness it's implied drives her during ZZ. tsob fucked around with this message at 04:27 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 03:53
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Did she use all of the funnels at once? Because that's a way she could have used them more or used more of them. Whatever the reason, the fact remains that the characters in the show state that she could have used them more and the way they act and what they say and how gives us no reason to believe they are lying or mistaken or that we are supposed to believe they are lying or mistaken. Haman doesn't say "yeah, because you kept shooting them down so they were useless" when Judau says the thing and while she also doesn't say "I'm going to sabotage myself this fight so the boy can kill me" the the things the characters say and do in the scene and those surrounding it leads people towards one interpretation more than the other. Darth Walrus posted:Stories are created works where everything exists for a reason. Why do you think Tomino included that scene of Judau angrily asking why Haman didn't use more funnels after he destroys her suit? Based on apparently arguing that the opening of MSG with the colony drop surrounded by Zeon suits as the narrator talks about the devastating death toll of the OYW not communicating that the colony drop was devastating and that Zeon do terrible things I'm gonna agree with tsob being pretty media illiterate sometimes.
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May 10, 2019 20:38
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lol https://twitter.com/hiro_ep71/status/1127060822226685952
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May 11, 2019 06:26
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Who'd have thought a mere civilian transport could move so well?
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May 11, 2019 06:34
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Shinjobi posted:I saw a whole heck of a lot of upraised clenched fists at the end of not-Hitler's big pivotal Zeon speech. I don't wanna hear about no "just following orders" excuses. They were down with it. Some of them kept up with the Neo Zeon, which is pretty loving tone deaf when the AEUG is right there if you want to combat the Titans. Hell, there was Karaba if you wanted to take the fight to the Federation earth-side. There were options. Some soldiers chose the worst one every single time. I think it's interesting to note that the only people who get happy endings in UC are the people that choose to stop fighting see ZZ and 08th and also novel zeta where kamille just goes "gently caress this i'm out" and becomes a doctor and everything is fine
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May 11, 2019 07:52
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GulagDolls posted:i thought this was a translation issue and the line was supposed to be 'half of humanity is dead' or something similar. I took "both" as referring to earthnoid and spacenoids in general.
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May 11, 2019 23:19
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ZZ is not very good so whatever.
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May 12, 2019 00:03
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The Notorious ZSB posted:ZZ is not very good so whatever. it's not bad either imo
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May 12, 2019 00:03
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HitTheTargets posted:All that data is hugely important in the Super Robot Wars OG setting, which is largely a Gundam ripoff. There's a group of 4 dudes that you know are badasses because they literally wrote the book on making a robot punch. 'Course, one of them wised up and started using a G Gundam style control system, but even that's largely because he's a swordsman weeb. from a month ago but one of my fav. og details is that there's an entire generation of mechs based entirely around ryusei loving around in an r-blade for a couple days
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May 12, 2019 00:08
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ZZ is by no means flawless (Beecha's entire character, the way that this show was kind of a weird last note on Mineva until Unicorn came out, not really working as a lead-in to CCA like at all etc.) but it honestly is one of the Tomino shows I most enjoyed watching. I really liked the progression from slapstick in the beginning into the more Zeta-esque tone- it really helped the show not feel too repetitive. You get some kind of unusual plotlines for Gundam too, like the whole thing about Bright maybe cheating on his wife. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 00:15 on May 12, 2019 |
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May 12, 2019 00:12
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Yinlock posted:it's not bad either imo I disagree with this in that, yes there are about 12 strong episodes at the end, but you have to sit through 30+ episodes that tonally don't really fit in the UC universe, with a lot of repeated gags and situations (that get cribbed in other Gundam later), then you add on the fact that most of the early plots mean nothing to the larger plot in the background and yes I think a lot of it is bad. Certainly there are far worse Gundam series, but ZZ is one of the worst long form Gundams imo. The title Gundam doesn't even show up until almost halfway through the run. There is way too much that rubs me wrong about how it was structured paced, plotted etc. It doesn't help that they bullshitted their resolution with Judau's sister. Implying her death but OH WAIT NO THERE SHE IS IN THE FINALE BECAUSE WHO THE gently caress KNOWS. It is not pure garbage, but it is closer to bad than it is to good. I get that some people like the lighter tone, especially given it following Zeta immediately which was very heavy and dark, but it has never connected with me. It really reminds me of the original TV Gundam run where a lot of it seems to be there to sell merchandise and models without much care for whether any of that matters or makes sense for whats happening in the show. Which is consequently a big reason why I prefer the Gundam films to the TV run. I think ZZ Gundam could be turned into a trilogy of films better than Zeta was condensed and maybe the tonal shifts would be more palatable to me with an adjusted run time for a lot of it. Raxivace posted:You get some kind of unusual plotlines for Gundam too, like the whole thing about Bright maybe cheating on his wife. This is such a weird inclusion played very strangely and uncomfortably for all involved. It is a more unusual plot line, but it doesn't really go anywhere. It's unrequited love from La Vie En Rose's commander and Bright is just kinda weird? The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 00:24 on May 12, 2019 |
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May 12, 2019 00:19
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The Notorious ZSB posted:I disagree with this in that, yes there are about 12 strong episodes at the end, but you have to sit through 30+ episodes that tonally don't really fit in the UC universe, with a lot of repeated gags and situations (that get cribbed in other Gundam later), then you add on the fact that most of the early plots mean nothing to the larger plot in the background and yes I think a lot of it is bad. Certainly there are far worse Gundam series, but ZZ is one of the worst long form Gundams imo. The title Gundam doesn't even show up until almost halfway through the run. There is way too much that rubs me wrong about how it was structured paced, plotted etc. It doesn't help that they bullshitted their resolution with Judau's sister. Implying her death but OH WAIT NO THERE SHE IS IN THE FINALE BECAUSE WHO THE gently caress KNOWS. That's true for a number of Gundams, isn't it? Zeta, G, and 00 all do it.
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May 12, 2019 00:23
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Darth Walrus posted:That's true for a number of Gundams, isn't it? Zeta, G, and 00 all do it. Not really. There is often a midseason upgrade which can change the name, but usually you get the title Gundam in the first about 3 episodes or so max. 0079 - First episode Zeta - mentioned in the first 10 or so (we see Kamille drawing plans for it early on) and is revealed around 15-18 is my recollection? Also the misdirect with the Mk 2 so there is still a "new" Gundam at the start. Wing - First Gundam we see. 00 - True the 00 doesn't appear until the second season, but his first Gundam is required for it to work, and he comes back to it so Exia is honestly more the title Gundam than the 00 ends up being. IMO G - Mid season upgrade IBO - constant upgrades over the series, but we meet it in the first 2 I think. Victory - should be in episode 3/4, but they cut it to appear in 1 so fans wouldn't be confused (I don't like that and wish Tomino had gotten his originally scripted order of events). X - first episode GReco - first I think 2 or so? Turn A - first 3 episodes ZZ Gundam appears in episode 17 looking at Wiki, but it feels like so much longer given the tone and pacing of the show. I am being maybe a little unfair, but there is not a single new hero until it's arrival which is odd in Gundam shows even for an immediate sequel that picks up where the last series ended. I may have been a bit unfair about the timing of its arrival, but it feels like it takes forever. You just keep waiting then its there and they find every excuse to break it apart and make it not available all the time because it is an OP suit that would break the show if they didn't invent reasons for it to not to be available. There are so many stupid decisions made that are forgotten and undone by the next episode just so there could be "tension" about whether they'll put it back together or not. The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 00:38 on May 12, 2019 |
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May 12, 2019 00:33
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Judau's sister thing wasn't a mystery for too terribly long, I didn't think. Been a while, but I don't remember her showing up being a last minute thing.
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May 12, 2019 00:37
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Shinjobi posted:Judau's sister thing wasn't a mystery for too terribly long, I didn't think. Been a while, but I don't remember her showing up being a last minute thing. Just watched it this last year. She "dies" in the the middle of the series, and doesn't reappear until the final scene. Judau in the last couple episodes has this feeling that shes okay and they hint at Sayla (a moment you would be confused about even with deep Gundam knowledge since she hadn't appeared in the series and has no speaking line until the finale), but never show that she's okay until the end. Everyone thinks Judau has lost it because they all rightly believe her to be dead. Guess I'm back to my role of posting opinions on Gundam that aren't agreed with 
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May 12, 2019 00:41
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The Notorious ZSB posted:This is such a weird inclusion played very strangely and uncomfortably for all involved. It is a more unusual plot line, but it doesn't really go anywhere. It's unrequited love from La Vie En Rose's commander and Bright is just kinda weird? bright was p. much an entirely different(and kind of amazing?) character for half of zz
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May 12, 2019 00:48
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Yinlock posted:bright was p. much an entirely different(and kind of amazing?) character for half of zz Bright No Longer Gives a poo poo was definitely one of ZZ's better subplots. You even see echoes of it in Unicorn when he meets Banagher and realises he's the new protagonist.
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May 12, 2019 00:51
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Darth Walrus posted:Bright No Longer Gives a poo poo was definitely one of ZZ's better subplots. You even see echoes of it in Unicorn when he meets Banagher and realises he's the new protagonist. My favorite bit about Bright in Unicorn is that even with only 25ish total minutes they get across how much better a captain he is than Otto. He gives a real pep talk to Banagher, verbally slaps Riddhe's pretensions, and immediately recognizes which side he should be on and starts working to help as best he can.
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May 12, 2019 01:55
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By Unicorn Bright is aware he is in a Gundam series and acts accordingly, which is pretty weird but absolutely understandable at his like 4th or 5th Teenage Boy Jacks A Gundam situation
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May 12, 2019 02:05
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Omnicrom posted:My favorite bit about Bright in Unicorn is that even with only 25ish total minutes they get across how much better a captain he is than Otto. He gives a real pep talk to Banagher, verbally slaps Riddhe's pretensions, and immediately recognizes which side he should be on and starts working to help as best he can. Otto is honestly one of my favorite characters in Unicorn because he's one of the few characters that acts like an actual person in his situation. He's tired, exasperated, unappreciated, in way over his head at pretty much all points past episode 1, and desperately wants to get out of the mess his crew is in with all of them in one piece, but he's also enough of a good officer to understand when he needs to take risks and enough of a good person to know when he needs to go against lovely orders despite desperately wanting not to. He reminds me a lot of 0079 Bright except even less professional. Kanos fucked around with this message at 02:10 on May 12, 2019 |
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May 12, 2019 02:08
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Otto is a good person. I do like how he convinces Banagher to give Daguza a second chance. He's lazy but his heart is in the right place and he gives the best "go gently caress yourself" rant to the neo zeon pricks.
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May 12, 2019 02:23
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Yinlock posted:bright was p. much an entirely different(and kind of amazing?) character for half of zz It is easily one of the best parts about ZZ, I will agree about it. His dgaf attitude is a great turn.
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May 12, 2019 02:24
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Not really. There is often a midseason upgrade which can change the name, but usually you get the title Gundam in the first about 3 episodes or so max. Is this about "main" Gundams or "title" Gundams? Because there ain't no Gundam called "iron blooded orphan", bud.
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May 12, 2019 02:26
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The real Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphan was the child slaves we freed on the way.
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May 12, 2019 04:00
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Just watched it this last year. She "dies" in the the middle of the series, and doesn't reappear until the final scene. Judau in the last couple episodes has this feeling that shes okay and they hint at Sayla (a moment you would be confused about even with deep Gundam knowledge since she hadn't appeared in the series and has no speaking line until the finale), but never show that she's okay until the end. Everyone thinks Judau has lost it because they all rightly believe her to be dead. I mean, I'm gonna like ZZ either way but that's still crazy to me, I totally thought she came back before the finale. Ah well, maybe I'll just watch the series again. Might be tough though, as it is not anime.
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May 12, 2019 04:55
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I enjoyed ZZ overall. It felt more fleshed out in some ways than Z because there was a greater range of like, normal people and not Tomino psychos zipping around. The hardest stretch is the first part before they get to like moonmoon (I understand I am a deviant for enjoying moonmoon), then the desert arc sorta dragging on.
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May 12, 2019 05:15
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ZZ still hits all the UC story beats, stupid names, war is bad, tomino has issues with women, and space wizards
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May 12, 2019 05:39
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"it takes a while before the title robot shows up" is kind of an odd criticism. i don't see how that's an indictment of the show at all
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May 12, 2019 05:53
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In a way it's better than the inverse in like Aura Battler Dunbine where the titular mecha gets less and less relevant after the protagonist gets their midseason upgrade
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May 12, 2019 09:21
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Otto is definitely one of my favorite Unicorn characters.
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May 12, 2019 11:50
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Merilan posted:In a way it's better than the inverse in like Aura Battler Dunbine where the titular mecha gets less and less relevant after the protagonist gets their midseason upgrade The best is when the main character gets a new robot but the titular robot stays just as important. Yet another reason that Xabungle is the best Gundam
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May 12, 2019 12:39
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| # ? May 12, 2024 17:51 |
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Merilan posted:In a way it's better than the inverse in like Aura Battler Dunbine where the titular mecha gets less and less relevant after the protagonist gets their midseason upgrade
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May 12, 2019 12:42
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