|
Crabtree posted:Anthem: Redeeming Andromeda. Do you think that a future BioWare game will make us think “Anthem wasn’t that bad”? I mean, years ago we thought it would never get worse than Dragon Age 2.
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 07:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 09:31 |
|
|
Von_Doom posted:Do you think that a future BioWare game will make us think “Anthem wasn’t that bad”? I mean, years ago we thought it would never get worse than Dragon Age 2. It still hasn’t tho
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 07:33
|
|
|
ashpanash posted:Anti-consensus theory that I think may have merit: Dragon Age: Inquisition was the first Bioware game to use Frostbyte, and while it was janky as hell at times, it mostly worked. It was developed mainly by Bioware's Edmonton office, the same group that headed up Anthem. There was definitely experience in using that engine in that office. However, Bioware's management decided to not use any of DA:I's code base for Anthem, even as a jumping-off point, so they had to build everything from scratch a second time. The reason Andromeda's combat and driving were good is because they were the only parts of the game that had consistent development. They also didn't have any major game play changes to contend with. Anthem, on the other hand, couldn't figure out their core mechanics until over halfway in to the development cycle. Including flying changes literally everything in the game including level design and core combat. You can still see this if you take time out and wander around on the ground, because you'll find world design features that you would never notice while flying. Those bits of content and visual features are from before flying was determined to be a core mechanic.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 07:49
|
|
|
Von_Doom posted:Do you think that a future BioWare game will make us think “Anthem wasn’t that bad”? I mean, years ago we thought it would never get worse than Dragon Age 2. I sincerely doubt it as we may not even see Dragon Age 4 released. Or at least, BioWare could be killed right when the game launches. And if that happens as least we know that as bad as DA4 could be, it was technically a mercy kill.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 07:53
|
|
|
Crabtree posted:I sincerely doubt it as we may not even see Dragon Age 4 released. Or at least, BioWare could be killed right when the game launches. And if that happens as least we know that as bad as DA4 could be, it was technically a mercy kill. Oh DA4 is totally getting a release or everyone at  has to pack up their desks first thing Monday. Whether it's anything other than a broken loading screen simulator missing 90& of promised content is another question.Or maybe DA4 will simply be a mobile gaming freemium app.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 09:58
|
|
|
Anthem : "you guys have phones, right?"
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 10:51
|
|
|
Anthem: The pretty-looking flowers around the casket
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 11:06
|
|
|
ashpanash posted:Anti-consensus theory that I think may have merit: A bad carpenter always blames his tools.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 13:06
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:A bad carpenter always blames his tools. In this case, the carpenters were attempting to hammer nails with a limp salami.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 15:46
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:A bad carpenter always blames his tools. I mean tbf EA should be blaming BioWare here
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 16:06
|
|
|
Tetrabor posted:In this case, the carpenters were attempting to hammer nails with a limp salami. oops, that’s my kink
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 17:34
|
|
|
There have been so many times where you read about some interesting game idea that got abandoned , mothballed or canceled. After Bioware’s last decade I have finally gone from, “aw what a shame it never got to see the light of day” to “I’m glad we were spared this.” It’s really something that the calculus of EA still favors releasing awful turds over delaying until they develop something they can be proud of. It also makes me less bothered by Valve’s development graveyard.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 17:40
|
|
|
speaking of valve, people like to mention fallout 76 or anthem as the biggest flop in recent memory, so it stands as a testament to the utter failure of artifact that people have literally forgotten about it. it was so dull, trite, and mundane that it simply vanished off the radar. you couldn't even make memes out of the trainwreck. that's worse than anthem imo. and people want these guys to make half life 3. they should stick to their storefront if that's the best they can do since episode two. pretty sad
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 18:14
|
|
|
ashpanash posted:Anti-consensus theory that I think may have merit: Frostbyte's poo poo, sure, but that's no excuse for the result. New Vegas was developed on an equally headache-inducing engine in the span of 18 months. The blame falls entirely on the total incompetence of management in guiding the project and the ethically reprehensible environment of peer pressure and economic fear that was built up in the labourers to compensate for it. Zedsdeadbaby posted:speaking of valve, people like to mention fallout 76 or anthem as the biggest flop in recent memory, so it stands as a testament to the utter failure of artifact that people have literally forgotten about it. it was so dull, trite, and mundane that it simply vanished off the radar. you couldn't even make memes out of the trainwreck. that's worse than anthem imo. Artifact's design is almost supernaturally bad, like demons in a hellforge somewhere were contracted to design the least appealing game possible. There's really no other way to explain releasing a loving virtual CCG with some of the most horseshit microtransactions possible in 2018 and expecting it to be anything other than a dismal waste of time for everyone involved. Vermain fucked around with this message at 18:18 on May 11, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 18:14
|
|
|
To be fair, it’s hard to draw direct comparisons between the games. Artifact had very little hype starting from its reveal, and basically appealed only to hardcore ccg players. It was always much more of a niche title whereas Anthem and Fo76 were AAA hype monsters that were paraded around E3. That being said, the fact that valve couldn’t put out a product that could compete even with B-tier ccgs like eternal and shadowverse is absolutely hilarious and just goes to show how far up its own rear end the company can be
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 18:55
|
|
|
Vermain posted:Frostbyte's poo poo, sure, but that's no excuse for the result. New Vegas was developed on an equally headache-inducing engine in the span of 18 months. The blame falls entirely on the total incompetence of management in guiding the project and the ethically reprehensible environment of peer pressure and economic fear that was built up in the labourers to compensate for it. To be clear, I'm not trying to white-knight here, I'm just trying to understand why it takes them days to weeks to fix petty things and every time they do fix something, it breaks three other things. Incompetence seems to reign, sure, but this level of sustained incompetence is almost unheard of.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 19:57
|
|
|
Scrub-Niggurath posted:To be fair, it’s hard to draw direct comparisons between the games. Artifact had very little hype starting from its reveal, and basically appealed only to hardcore ccg players. It was always much more of a niche title whereas Anthem and Fo76 were AAA hype monsters that were paraded around E3. That being said, the fact that valve couldn’t put out a product that could compete even with B-tier ccgs like eternal and shadowverse is absolutely hilarious and just goes to show how far up its own rear end the company can be It didn’t appeal to hardcore ccg players though It literally didn’t appeal to anybody
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 20:05
|
|
|
Fallom posted:It literally didn’t appeal to anybody
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 20:23
|
|
|
ashpanash posted:To be clear, I'm not trying to white-knight Bioware did prove they could sustain a seriously high level of incompetence for 7 years so....
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 20:32
|
|
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:speaking of valve, people like to mention fallout 76 or anthem as the biggest flop in recent memory, so it stands as a testament to the utter failure of artifact that people have literally forgotten about it. it was so dull, trite, and mundane that it simply vanished off the radar. you couldn't even make memes out of the trainwreck. that's worse than anthem imo. And yet it didn't linger like 76 or Anthem did, pretend a failure isn't an absolute failure. Artifact was a stillborn and Gabe didn't need to preserve it in a jar to claim its still alive. Artifact wanted to chase something, failed and gave up. Anthem and Fallout 76 had theoertical years more development than it, yet they continue to be left to the elements instead of given the care that could see it recover as a real game. A swift cruelty is kinder than false care.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 20:57
|
|
|
Eh, Anthem is definitely a failure but it's more competent than 76 in my humblest of correct opinions The biggest issue I had with Anthem was the complete lack of endgame. If it did have an endgame it'd been "ok"
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 21:02
|
|
|
And yet anthem is the one being shut down because EA changed its mind about pretending they wanted Anthem after a earnings statement. Either be gabe and kill that poo poo the second its awful or put the effort like square did and salvage your poo poo show. Ironically Todd's hubris in just keeping 76 is more of a roadmap than Anthem just being thrown to the winds again.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 21:07
|
|
|
Looking at it from the outside, the biggest issue seems like it would have been the fact that what you equip doesn't matter in the slightest
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 21:10
|
|
|
Artifact was always going to suck but Anthem really could have been good 
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 21:22
|
|
|
Kaysette posted:Anthem really could have been good It everything about it was different, sure
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 21:24
|
|
|
Gasoline posted:It everything about it was different, sure The big problem is they made a bad game instead of making a good game instead
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 21:34
|
|
|
Moola posted:The big problem is they made a bad game instead of making a good game instead They should have just flipped the Loot switch from ‘Bad’ to ‘Good.’ Or maybe they can’t figure out how to flip the switch because somewhere deep in the code they misspelled ‘tether’ or something.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 21:52
|
|
|
Random rear end in a top hat posted:They should have just flipped the Loot switch from ‘Bad’ to ‘Good.’ Or maybe they can’t figure out how to flip the switch because somewhere deep in the code they misspelled ‘tether’ or something. Do you expect ME to crl f the word tether in the code and see if it pops up where it should? I have wet willies to give around the staff!
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 22:01
|
|
|
Gasoline posted:It everything about it was different, sure There's some fun stuff in it - the combat is p fun. I only put maybe 8 hours into the game, though.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 22:14
|
|
|
ashpanash posted:To be clear, I'm not trying to white-knight Any game, on any engine, developed over the course of six years in an environment where management can barely decide on a course for the game, long periods of productivity-destroying crunch are normalized, and workers are replaced left and right month after month when the stress finally skewers their soul, is going to be a nearly incomprehensible mess of tech debt. Well-written code and comprehensive systems documentation is the realm of stable development teams. The more stressed you are, the less effort you're going to put into writing good, sensible code with sufficient explanation of it; the more frequently your team gets torn apart by stress casualties, the less you're going to spend your already limited willpower onboarding new people on proper standards and already-developed systems. The result is what they're almost assuredly dealing with now: a spiraling mess of methods and systems that interlink and barely manage to work (because that was the point of the crunch at the end), but which are woven together in such a slapdash way that trying to change even a single portion of the code is like trying to disassemble a Jenga tower with your teeth.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 22:24
|
|
|
I don't even get what people do at Valve anymore, do they just have modelers/riggers/texture artists waiting in the wings for some devs to get together and decide to make a game? Is Valve just all software engineers now? I guess it's still better than Bioware, which only employs level designers and nothing else.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 23:09
|
|
|
I had to look up a video on Artifact because I had never heard of it outside of this/the 76 thread. I'm not a moba or ccg guy but it does not look good.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 23:30
|
|
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:speaking of valve, people like to mention fallout 76 or anthem as the biggest flop in recent memory, so it stands as a testament to the utter failure of artifact that people have literally forgotten about it. it was so dull, trite, and mundane that it simply vanished off the radar. you couldn't even make memes out of the trainwreck. that's worse than anthem imo. In terms of sales, Artifact flopped pretty hard. Fallout 76 I am not sure about, but Anthem actually is Biowares 2nd best selling game ever.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 23:46
|
|
|
Tetrabor posted:I don't even get what people do at Valve anymore, do they just have modelers/riggers/texture artists waiting in the wings for some devs to get together and decide to make a game? large numbers of people who worked on half life and the source engine are still there. i'm honestly wondering what they do too. i guess valve being privately owned (and thus not responsible to a board or shareholders) means there's really no such thing as a deadline, especially when they can coast along on extremely rich steam revenue. literally every single day, hundreds of thousands of dollars go directly to the company from game sales. gabe struck the video game equivalent of oil and he knows it
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2019 23:50
|
|
|
Tetrabor posted:I don't even get what people do at Valve anymore, do they just have modelers/riggers/texture artists waiting in the wings for some devs to get together and decide to make a game? valve has what they call a "flat" development structure (iirc, that's what they call it) where you can basically just kind of work on anything as long as someone approves it
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2019 00:37
|
|
|
Tetrabor posted:I don't even get what people do at Valve anymore, do they just have modelers/riggers/texture artists waiting in the wings for some devs to get together and decide to make a game? It's Gaben. Just Gaben.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2019 01:30
|
|
|
Crabtree posted:I feel like 76 is just a taste of what's to come from further Bethesda endeavors. Just hand that poo poo off to Bethesda Milwaukee, promise the moon and the stars from the same run down modified creation engine that the team can barely handle while you charge $199 for a lovely plastic cover on a bottle, short change the customer at every direction. bethesda still publishes pretty good stuff often enough though. EA hasnt done poo poo. I have some faith in respawn to not gently caress up star wars though.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2019 02:55
|
|
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:large numbers of people who worked on half life and the source engine are still there. i'm honestly wondering what they do too. i guess valve being privately owned (and thus not responsible to a board or shareholders) means there's really no such thing as a deadline, especially when they can coast along on extremely rich steam revenue. literally every single day, hundreds of thousands of dollars go directly to the company from game sales. gabe struck the video game equivalent of oil and he knows it Uh my dude privately owned companies still have board and shareholders The thing you’re thinking about is management of public companies thinking in terms of quarterly financials due to stockholder pressure and compensation being tied to hitting quarterly numbers.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2019 04:09
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:In terms of sales, Artifact flopped pretty hard. Fallout 76 I am not sure about, but Anthem actually is Biowares 2nd best selling game ever. 2nd best selling game in their entire company history? Geez that's crazy. I'm assumeing KOTOR or Mass Effect 2 would be one of thier highest selling titles. Isn't original Bioware responsible for Baldurs Gate?
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2019 04:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 09:31 |
|
|
Video game sales have been going up perpetually for years. Best selling (relative to a single developer's product) just means most recent for the most part. It's a nearly worthless metric, especially now when selling the box is often a secondary goal to selling micro transactions. It's like how every two weeks you hear about some drat movie breaking box office records again. It happens no matter what because total consumption is constantly rising.
|
|
#
?
May 12, 2019 04:54
|
|
