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FizFashizzle posted:It’s also why there’s no such thing as a limited engagement with Iran. Trump would probably start a war if they sunk a tugboat.
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May 14, 2019 18:11
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Wistful of Dollars posted:Trump would probably start a war if they sunk a tugboat. True, but if we lost a carrier there's a much higher chance the US population would unite behind it.
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May 14, 2019 18:14
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the proof that these people are not just evil but also extremely stupid is them wanting to start a war that'd make iraq look like a cakewalk.
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May 14, 2019 18:17
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haveblue posted:True, but if we lost a carrier there's a much higher chance the US population would unite behind it. It would be a tragedy, because Iran would be 100% justified in doing so. There's no question about who here is the aggressor.
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May 14, 2019 18:21
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https://twitter.com/alexnazaryan/status/1128261521430253568 https://twitter.com/brhodes/status/1127747365983571971 https://twitter.com/mmfa/status/1128329008112861184
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May 14, 2019 18:21
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Mineaiki posted:Wasn’t Saddam’s army pretty good by world standards? Saddam tailored his military to bully other countries around him with the implicit backing of the United States. Iran/Venezuela et. al have been on the business end of the American siege state for a while now and have militaries more or less organized to prolong an American invasion and make it as costly as possible.
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May 14, 2019 18:21
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:I guess you have more faith in people than I do. lovely people will always be lovely if it benefits them or their tribe. It's not about having faith that people won't be lovely it's about having faith that people will do what's best for themselves when push comes to shove. Unlike elected Republicans SCOTUS Judges don't have to worry about re-election so they don't give a poo poo what's Trump's base wants they're governed by their own ideology, beliefs and self interest. So do you really for one instant think that the Judges on the Supreme Court who will be around along time after Trump is finished are about to uphold the idea that the president is above the law? Particularly less than 2 years out from when there is most likely going to be a Democratic President? Trump is under water and while it's possible he may win the most likely outcome is he's going to lose also New York and California being Democratic strongholds pretty much puts the idea of any sort of fascist lock down out of the equation. I mean I could be wrong but any legitimacy the court has left would be squandered on a 5/4 ruling overturning what was a unanimous precedent. Basically on the scale of things to worry about this is pretty far down the list.
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May 14, 2019 18:28
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CommieGIR posted:What commitment for him? He doesn't have to do anything. Its a perfect Trump move, because he won't be held responsible for a war. Were you uh...not born yet or in a coma for the second W Bush term??
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May 14, 2019 18:29
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VideoGameVet posted:Iran's submarine force currently consists of three Russian Kilo-class (4,000 ton) diesel-electric submarines (Tareq 901, Noor 902, Yunes 903), one 350-400-ton Nahang and an expanding force of roughly a dozen 150-ton Ghadir-class (Qadir/Khadir) midget submarines. I know just repeating it, but it is worth repeating for those that don't know: Modern diesel submarines ( well-built ones anyways ) are extremely dangerous and hard to find, even for big boy fleets with robust anti-submarine warfare forces. They're probably the most potent threat you can level at a fleet like the USN, assuming you don't have the budget or ability to just launch lots and lots of missiles. It's a safe bet that a carrier kill would be a priority for the subs, too, since such a thing would be... spectacular, for a lot of reasons. CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Saddam tailored his military to bully other countries around him with the implicit backing of the United States. Iran/Venezuela et. al have been on the business end of the American siege state for a while now and have militaries more or less organized to prolong an American invasion and make it as costly as possible. It's also worth noting that Saddam's army was pretty worn down in a lot of ways, far from fresh, by the time we invaded. Iran would be the closest we've come to fighting someone on 'equal terms' in a long, long time, and a serious conflict would be an absolute bloodbath. Anyone that looks at the Iran-Iraq war and decides to pick a fight with a well-rested, well-equipped Iran is a lunatic. It has been immensely depressing to watch all the diplomatic progress we've made with Iran go up in smoke in such a short period of time. We accomplished meaningful deescalation with politics, relations were rocky, but thawing, things were looking good. 
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May 14, 2019 18:30
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Charlz Guybon posted:The last time was World War 2 The US/UN fought Chinese soldiers and Soviet fighters in Korea.
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May 14, 2019 18:31
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Also sending carriers into waters that have enemy subs in them is probably the dumbest thing you can do short of nuking your own cities, so of course our fat baby president will send carriers in to show how big and strong he is. Carriers are great when you’re bombing a country who can’t fight back. They become giant juicy targets the second your enemy can defend itself.
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May 14, 2019 18:35
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Iran isn’t stupid enough to spit in the direction of a carrier, especially since they don’t have to since they can just imply to threaten to close the straits.
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May 14, 2019 18:40
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I feel like few people remember the last forty years of saber rattling over the Straits of Hormuz.
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May 14, 2019 18:42
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Skex posted:It's not about having faith that people won't be lovely it's about having faith that people will do what's best for themselves when push comes to shove. Unlike elected Republicans SCOTUS Judges don't have to worry about re-election so they don't give a poo poo what's Trump's base wants they're governed by their own ideology, beliefs and self interest. You say that like if they rule a Repubican President is above the law, that means they have to rule that a Democratic one is, too. You're right. They're unelected. Which means they can do absolutely whatever the gently caress they god drat well please without consequence, including holding different Presidents to different standards. And yes, they're governed by their own ideologies. And five of them are Republican, which means 5 SCOTUS Justices are absolute loving shitheads. Remember, the Supreme Court has already installed a President of their choice in our lifetimes. Don't think they won't protect another one. I'm not saying they WILL rule this way. I'm just saying we've seen enough in the last 2 1/2 years that I think it's irresponsible to say they absolutely WON'T. BigBallChunkyTime fucked around with this message at 18:50 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 18:42
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Dick Trauma posted:I feel like few people remember the last forty years of saber rattling over the Straits of Hormuz. Yeah a lot of this poo poo is hardly new.
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May 14, 2019 18:43
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I am always a little surprised when people state/think that the Iraq war(s) was some sort of disaster, from a lot of perspectives (oil industry, military industry, halliburton, etc.) it really wasn’t a disaster, it was the greatest success they’ve ever had. Republicans didn’t even get any significant backlash or anything. A carrier is sunk? That just means taking more of people’s tax dollars and giving it to Northrop-Grumman, some of which obviously gets kicked back to republican political campaigns. I think the only thing missing from an Iran war, is trump starting a ridiculously terrible uniform/flag making company or something. Maybe a Trump(tm) Steak-based MRAs, or Trump Coffins.
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May 14, 2019 18:47
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:You say that like if they rule a Repubican President is above the law, that means they have to rule that a Democratic one is, too. Yeah that's not going to happen, if it does then it's full on revolution because that sort of ruling would be rightfully understood to be nakedly partisan. They are Conservative judges, which mean that they are conservative and they aren't going to overturn the Republic in the service of the orange poo poo stain. Particularly given that they were put in place for the long term. There are still 4 liberal judges who are going to vote against any nonsense of that sort, that means it only takes one conservative judge to break ranks to torpedo Trump's end run around the Constitution. And most likely they'll take the easy way out assuming that the lower courts find in keeping with past precedent which they will the the SCOTUS will just deny cert and confirm US v Nixon as law.
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May 14, 2019 18:52
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It would be insane for Iran to eat poo poo from the allied powers because Houthis have zero discipline. Iran is not a fun place but they do not deserve annihilation.
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May 14, 2019 18:55
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Bugsy posted:https://twitter.com/CharlieGileNBC/status/1128336475773448192 This is pretty open and shut, its literally congresses job to act as a check and launch investigations when neccessary and there is a 100 years of case law precident to back it up.
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May 14, 2019 18:56
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VideoGameVet posted:Iran's submarine force currently consists of three Russian Kilo-class (4,000 ton) diesel-electric submarines (Tareq 901, Noor 902, Yunes 903), one 350-400-ton Nahang and an expanding force of roughly a dozen 150-ton Ghadir-class (Qadir/Khadir) midget submarines. It definitely is something the Navy has been aware of for a while now. To wit: 
VH4Ever fucked around with this message at 19:05 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 19:00
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Saddam tailored his military to bully other countries around him with the implicit backing of the United States. Iran/Venezuela et. al have been on the business end of the American siege state for a while now and have militaries more or less organized to prolong an American invasion and make it as costly as possible. Iran wouldn't even be an issue if we had left Saddam alone. For your amusement, REAL GENIUSES OF INTERNATIONAL POLICY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHmhf_wrcrM
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May 14, 2019 19:04
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https://twitter.com/MichaelEHayden/status/1128112500036255746 https://twitter.com/AwwwwCats/status/1128341985197211650
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May 14, 2019 19:05
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Hopefully, like north Korea and Venezuela, this will fall through as soon as someone tell trump isn't not an easy and immediate win,
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May 14, 2019 19:06
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VH4Ever posted:It definitely is something the Navy has been aware of for a while now. To wit: Now I’m picturing an Iranian dude ripping rear end in the back of the sub and pretending to be a whale.
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May 14, 2019 19:07
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Iran isn’t stupid enough to spit in the direction of a carrier, especially since they don’t have to since they can just imply to threaten to close the straits. If they're being invaded in a conventional ground war, there's really no reason not to and every reason to try.  Revelation 2-13 posted:I am always a little surprised when people state/think that the Iraq war(s) was some sort of disaster, from a lot of perspectives (oil industry, military industry, halliburton, etc.) it really wasn’t a disaster, it was the greatest success they’ve ever had. Republicans didn’t even get any significant backlash or anything. A carrier is sunk? That just means taking more of people’s tax dollars and giving it to Northrop-Grumman, some of which obviously gets kicked back to republican political campaigns. I think the only thing missing from an Iran war, is trump starting a ridiculously terrible uniform/flag making company or something. Maybe a Trump(tm) Steak-based MRAs, or Trump Coffins. You are grossly underestimating the extent to which the carrier is a symbol of a lot of things, and the sheer amount cost- not just in material and time, but human lives- that would come out of losing such a ship. Images of a flaming carrier slipping below the surface of the sea would have tremendous impact at home and abroad, and would really hammer home the cost of a protracted war with Iran in a heartbeat. It would dominate the news cycle for a long, long time. It would be a national tragedy. VideoGameVet posted:Iran wouldn't even be an issue if we had left Saddam alone. I recently read Legacy of Ashes ( and a few other books ) and it is absolutely startling the degree to which we've created so many of our own problems for no real gains for the dumbest reasons, over and over and over. I thought I knew that before reading it, but having actually digested more of the history: 
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May 14, 2019 19:08
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:You say that like if they rule a Repubican President is above the law, that means they have to rule that a Democratic one is, too. If republicans have +10 to ignore law then why does the supreme court even matter? If the supreme court was 400 bernie sanders and ruled trump stinks why would they have to follow that if they already decided they don't have to follow laws? Is there something special where the supreme court is the one thing they have to follow?
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May 14, 2019 19:08
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 https://twitter.com/shanedkavanaugh/status/1128018317552209920
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May 14, 2019 19:13
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:If republicans have +10 to ignore law then why does the supreme court even matter? If the supreme court was 400 bernie sanders and ruled trump stinks why would they have to follow that if they already decided they don't have to follow laws? Is there something special where the supreme court is the one thing they have to follow? If the ruling was winning to them then “the Supreme Court has spoken” and if not then the Supreme Court are partisan hacks.
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May 14, 2019 19:14
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Putin also wouldn’t want an Iran war so he’ll get on the phone with Trump and slyly encourage him about how smart he’d be to back down just like with Venezuela.
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May 14, 2019 19:18
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How brave of the Democrats to give up like a bunch of loving losers, hope they do this nationally as well and then Trump's really in for it!!!!
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May 14, 2019 19:18
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 https://twitter.com/revrrlewis/status/1128362911129325574
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May 14, 2019 19:19
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Boris Galerkin posted:If the ruling was winning to them then “the Supreme Court has spoken” and if not then the Supreme Court are partisan hacks. but like, if they have such incredible power why even care about the supreme court? If the supreme court voted against them what does that matter any more than it voting for them if they just are all powerful anyway?
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May 14, 2019 19:19
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sexpig by night posted:lol if this all ends with Trump knowing his dick measuring with China will gently caress the economy up so he wants to be a ~war time president~
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May 14, 2019 19:23
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eke out posted:BERNIE: got a war powers resolution passed for the first time in history to try to defund our support for the war in yemen
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May 14, 2019 19:25
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The ability to select any screen cap you want, and you choose the last thing a stripper sees before ending up in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert
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May 14, 2019 19:32
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:but like, if they have such incredible power why even care about the supreme court? If the supreme court voted against them what does that matter any more than it voting for them if they just are all powerful anyway? Honestly, this is a major concern at the moment. It's not impossible that Trump decides to go full Jackson and ignore a supreme court ruling that he doesn't like. And then we'll be up to about our fiftieth constitutional crisis because of him. Trump refusing to obey the court when the court rules that he's not a dictator is way more likely than the court ruling that he is a dictator and everything he does is fine. Of course, in this case it's a private entity that he's trying to force to not comply with a subpoena so they're not going to just go along with this. When it's the justice department or treasury refusing to follow court orders, things get worse.
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May 14, 2019 19:37
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There's something deeply poetic about exchanging guns and vaccines for a school funding tax.
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May 14, 2019 19:42
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Random Stranger posted:Honestly, this is a major concern at the moment. It's not impossible that Trump decides to go full Jackson and ignore a supreme court ruling that he doesn't like. And then we'll be up to about our fiftieth constitutional crisis because of him. Trump refusing to obey the court when the court rules that he's not a dictator is way more likely than the court ruling that he is a dictator and everything he does is fine. There are plenty of career people in those agencies who will take a SCOTUS ruling as license to ignore Trump's edicts. Because if he fires them for complying with a judicial instruction it's going to be an open and shut wrongful termination suit.
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May 14, 2019 19:42
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Putin also wouldn’t want an Iran war so he’ll get on the phone with Trump and slyly encourage him about how smart he’d be to back down just like with Venezuela. That's the one thing we have going for us. Aren't Russia and Iran pretty thick as thieves? I mean the USSR was their superpower patron in the 80s because they hated us, correct? And their nuclear tech is sourced from Russian scientists, etc? Trump being Putin's bitch may actually help prevent Donny Godbrains from starting a really horrible war so it has its silver linings? gently caress everything...
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May 14, 2019 19:47
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The dems have done the reverse in other states, and then come back because the republicans don't give in. They're not good at hostage taking.
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