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Hang on, I thought Hingashi was FFXIV Japan? And Yanxia is China, so what is Doma then? Also Japan maybe. Our maybe I've misunderstood something.
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May 14, 2019 22:38
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theyre fictional nations op
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May 14, 2019 22:50
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Poops Mcgoots posted:theyre fictional nations op
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May 14, 2019 22:55
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Overwatch Porn posted:https://twitter.com/cheche_dotharl/status/1128279381900779520 I'm glad I read this, because up until then I'd been planning on getting those outfits. I know a number of people were justifiably annoyed and disappointed in the New World set, and in that case I had the immediate cultural context to grasp, but I had no idea these kinds of designs were so loaded and so fraught in the Korean imagination. I'll pass on them! How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 23:00 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 22:57
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Bobfly posted:Hang on, I thought Hingashi was FFXIV Japan? And Yanxia is China, so what is Doma then? Also Japan maybe. Our maybe I've misunderstood something. AFAIK Yanxia is the area, Doma is the country (like Thanalan - Ul'dah etc). Doma feels like this weird Nipponised China. Chinese architecture and general culture, but Japanese names and social norms, along with katanas and ninjas and poo poo.
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May 14, 2019 23:15
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Overwatch Porn posted:https://twitter.com/cheche_dotharl/status/1128279381900779520 I remember there being backlash when they announced the New World set, complete with Native American headdress. The "Confederate" title I believe also raised some concerns in North America. This is an interesting and thoughtful thread about the new outfits. Good to know.
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May 14, 2019 23:58
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Overwatch Porn posted:https://twitter.com/cheche_dotharl/status/1128279381900779520 Well, poo poo. That's a goddamn shame, especially since I really like how that set looks and it's the first Chinese exclusive I've ever been curious about up until now.  This definitely causes some awkward tension all around.
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May 15, 2019 01:57
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At its core, FFXIV is a game about becoming a sexy murderer.
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May 15, 2019 03:18
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FactsAreUseless posted:At its core, FFXIV is a game about becoming a sexy murderer. Ah, no wonder people like Zenos.
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May 15, 2019 03:49
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I think comparing it to full blown SS uniforms is a bit overblown, tbh. Not to mention, as someone pointed out in the discord, those outfits were popular from the late 1800s all the way to today in some cases, so making it specifically compared to a specific Nazi war uniform is a bit disengenuous.
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May 15, 2019 03:53
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Tashilicious posted:I think comparing it to full blown SS uniforms is a bit overblown, tbh.
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May 15, 2019 03:56
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It's probably most comparable for most Americans to the New World outfit and should be treated with similar amounts of care and consideration.
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May 15, 2019 03:57
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Tashilicious posted:I think comparing it to full blown SS uniforms is a bit overblown, tbh. Not to mention, as someone pointed out in the discord, those outfits were popular from the late 1800s all the way to today in some cases, so making it specifically compared to a specific Nazi war uniform is a bit disengenuous. I'm not really going to say that they're inaccurate or wrong or that the imagery isn't loaded. What happened to Korea was loving awful and is still downplayed to this day. I think you can reasonably say that a Japanese development team didn't have the same view of the items for the reasons you said and that's probably the disconnect there, but the fact that Japan so massively downplays or actively denies what happened makes that kind of ignorance/misunderstanding a lot less sympathetic.
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May 15, 2019 03:58
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What sword does X'rhun Tia wield?
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May 15, 2019 04:02
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ImpAtom posted:I'm not really going to say that they're inaccurate or wrong or that the imagery isn't loaded. What happened to Korea was loving awful and is still downplayed to this day. I think you can reasonably say that a Japanese development team didn't have the same view of the items for the reasons you said and that's probably the disconnect there, but the fact that Japan so massively downplays or actively denies what happened makes that kind of ignorance/misunderstanding a lot less sympathetic. I don't think the China only store stuff is developed by Squeenix directly though.
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May 15, 2019 04:04
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FactsAreUseless posted:What sword does X'rhun Tia wield? Murgleis, the artifact weapon for RDM.
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May 15, 2019 04:06
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Bobfly posted:Hang on, I thought Hingashi was FFXIV Japan? And Yanxia is China, so what is Doma then? Also Japan maybe. Our maybe I've misunderstood something. The whole Othard region is Fantasy Asia, with a lot of real life cultures and histories intermingling. Hingashi is closest to historical Japan (had its own Sengoku period, isolationist archipelago with a single port open to outsiders for trade, samurai), Yanxia/Doma is closest to China (giant-rear end wall, based around a single prominent river, karst landscape), and the Azim Steppe is closest to Mongolia (numerous distinct tribes at constant low intensity war with eachother that are barely held together by the rule of a single leader). There's things like Doma having samurai that make it a bit weird, but they've all got fairly close real life analogues.
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May 15, 2019 04:15
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ImpAtom posted:Murgleis, the artifact weapon for RDM.
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May 15, 2019 04:23
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FactsAreUseless posted:How do you get it? Level RDM to 70 and you'll be given it as part of the final quest. If you want a dyeable version though you'll have to do the first area in Eureka.
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May 15, 2019 04:24
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Honest question, are the othard regions supposed to be analogues to their real world counterparts, or is it just that they took stylistic inspiration for those regions? Cause like, I was never sure how to feel about the people with Japanese names being the rightful rulers of the area that resembles China even though there's a different region that resembles Japan. That's kind of why I reduced it to "they're fictional countries, don't worry about it." I figured the countries and politics of the region were made to support the story the devs want to tell and trying to draw comparisons to real world locations raises a lot of questions the game isn't looking to answer.
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May 15, 2019 04:34
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the countries in game aren't 1:1 analogues to real life but that doesn't at all negate what theyre saying in that thread
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May 15, 2019 04:36
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Tashilicious posted:I don't think the China only store stuff is developed by Squeenix directly though. Sorry, I missed this earlier but: This isn't an excuse even if it's true. Someone at S-E presumably has to sign off on the clothing at least, and from what I'm hearing this is not a minor thing and the cultural context is really really significant. I saw this posted elsewhere: "He told me that in Korea during Japan’s occupation, they would force the students to wear Japanese uniforms (the same exact clothes surrounding the discourse happening in the FFXIV community right now). They could ONLY speak Japanese, use their Japanese names, and wear the uniforms they provided. If you rebelled, or refused to wear the uniform, you were shot in front of your entire class to be made an example of, so other students wouldn’t follow along." And to be honest, yeah, that's not acceptable as a 'cultural difference' thing from a country where a not-insignificant portion refuses to acknowledge those crimes. If S-E continues forward with this I wouldn't be surprised if they lose their Korean playerbase and TBH it would be justified from how it sounds. I think trying to excuse it from the outside is being pretty disrespectful to the people who still deal with the horrific consequences of those actions.
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May 15, 2019 04:54
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The Japanization of Korea is real, but those aren't exactly "japanese uniforms", it's Meiji era casual attire.
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May 15, 2019 05:01
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homeless snail posted:The Japanization of Korea is real, but those aren't exactly "japanese uniforms", it's Meiji era casual attire. Yes, but if you're talking about it from a Korean perspective it would be a uniform, because you're required to wear it or suffer punishment and it otherwise isn't a natural part of the style. That's kinda the disconnect here and why I said above it probably is genuine ignorance. Unfortunately that doesn't change the impact it has. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:08 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 05:05
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Is it being sold in Korea? I thought it was only in the Chinese version
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May 15, 2019 05:07
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homeless snail posted:Is it being sold in Korea? I thought it was only in the Chinese version Chinese-exclusive clothing eventually comes overseas on the Mogstation.
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May 15, 2019 05:08
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homeless snail posted:Is it being sold in Korea? I thought it was only in the Chinese version
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May 15, 2019 05:13
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Nessus posted:It sounds like it's going on top of some already iffy poo poo. I would not be surprised if the original intent of this particular sub-theme was to try to jab Japanese audiences with awareness of historical misdeeds, but it seems like a pretty clear misfire (and, of course, the Korean playerbase does not need the reminder) It's far more likely that they looked for historical inspirations for new outfits to release (like the cheongsam they released a while ago) and happened to pick one without fully understanding the connotations behind it. A Japanese artist is unlikely to understand why the New World outfit could be culturally insensitive, and a Chinese artist probably doesn't know the same thing for Meiji-era dress in Korea. Hell, even up here in Canada, a local place had an old timey historical billboard for a while that said something like, "Come enjoy a nice white lunch!" before someone politely told them what a white lunch was. Artists aren't any more immune to ignorance than everyone else. Poops Mcgoots posted:Honest question, are the othard regions supposed to be analogues to their real world counterparts, or is it just that they took stylistic inspiration for those regions? There's similarities between the various regions of Othard and real world cultures/regions, but the land as a whole is a pastiche rather than a parallel. There's nothing in Yanxia that particularly screams of some weird writer's bias; Doma and its people are natives to the land and not a ruling class of invaders. This sort of thing is extremely common in fantasy fiction, and I find it reasonable to assume benign intentions of laziness or convenience rather than a sinister motive until proven otherwise. Vermain fucked around with this message at 06:35 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 06:24
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I don't think anyone is expressly accusing it of being sinister, nor does a lack of sinister motive undercut the original criticism.
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May 15, 2019 06:40
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just had someone in an LDR tell me that SAM aoe damage breakpoint was tenka goken is dps gain at 3+ targets but the aoe combo abilities were 4+ this true?
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May 15, 2019 06:44
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Cabbit posted:I don't think anyone is expressly accusing it of being sinister, nor does a lack of sinister motive undercut the original criticism. That would be why I addressed the outfit issue in one post, and then addressed the question of whether or not there's a negative undercurrent in Yanxia that parallels real life Japanese nationalism in a separate post below that. edit: Sorry for being short; I'm grumpy tonight and I think I misread your post. To address it better: my general point is simply that works of fiction - especially speculative fiction - often use elements of real life without much finesse, frequently leading to hodgepodge cultures or cultural aesthetics that don't match 1:1 with their strongest real life parallels. The common reason for this is familiarity: a Japanese designer is going to be more aware of Japanese names and cultural archetypes, and is going to be able to deploy them in a story more effectively. The alternative can be much worse: someone with a barely hacked-together knowledge of a culture trying to imitate its archetypes, myths, and heroes can create something downright insulting instead of something merely at odds with what we normally associate its broad cultural strokes with in real life. I don't think Yanxia hides a hidden agenda or portrays dangerous Japanese ethno-nationalist myths, because it doesn't show it in the text of the story or the world. That Yanxia has samurai, ninjas, and people with Japanese names is more explicable as a compromise between the time constraints of a writer and a desire to tell a good story set in a culturally distinct location. Vermain fucked around with this message at 07:16 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 06:47
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I am currently around 35 and officially at the point where I am annoyed that I have to teleport to Horizon, chocobo to Vesper, enter a building, go through a loading screen, go through another screen for Minfillia to tell me "ok now go back to where you were before and give them this letter" I am leveling pretty quickly from duties and sidequests and kindaaaa wish I could've skipped a chunk of the story without skipping all of it and everyone is saying it gets worse once you actually hit 50. Can I at least start turning in quests to give experience to my crafting classes if I am outleveling the story
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May 15, 2019 07:13
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Theres a ferry by the Arcanists Guild that takes you straight to vesper.
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May 15, 2019 07:16
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Can I at least start turning in quests to give experience to my crafting classes if I am outleveling the story Almost all of the quests you're gonna run in to in the open world are specifically locked to Disciples of War/Magic, so Disciples of Hand/Disciples of Land classes cannot turn them in for EXP. If you're outleveling the story, you can always save the quests for when you level another job. Dungeons are usually more efficient, but you'll get lulls in the queue occasionally, and they can be helpful in pushing you over the edge into whatever the next highest level dungeon is.
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May 15, 2019 07:19
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You're going to outlevel the MSQ, anyway, if you have any of the expansions, because the between expansions MSQs were implemented when the level caps were still 50/60. Like, you'll easily hit 54 or 55 before even unlocking the actual HW content.
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May 15, 2019 07:30
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Something I found interesting in that thread was this stuff. One of the things I enjoyed about the SB content was that the Doma/Gyr Abania stuff felt like a very genuine and real portrayal of a nation occupied by a hostile regime. From what I understand, things like being encouraged to turn against your neighbours was a pretty common thing as far as despotic/occupation regimes goes. Is it bad for a video game to try and make the evil empire oppress its people as realistically as possible for a more compelling story? I feel like in books or movies, a realistic and compelling portrayal of oppression is something that is generally praised, so does the fact that it's a video game that's more oriented towards pulpier entertainment mean that it's a bad thing? Does the fact that it's an Asian-inspired nation or the fact that it's written by Japanese (the nation that did the Occupation) writers mean that this story is inherently loaded in a way that is completely seperate from the context? I'm not really in a position to answer any of this, given that I'm talking from a pretty privileged position and I know jack poo poo about the Japanese Occupation of Korea, but I just thought this was interesting to think about.
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May 15, 2019 07:57
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Cabbit posted:I don't think anyone is expressly accusing it of being sinister, nor does a lack of sinister motive undercut the original criticism. The thing is it doesn’t sound analogous to SS uniforms, it sounds analogous to the yellow stars Jewish people were forced to wear, which is actually way worse than an SS uniform.
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May 15, 2019 08:06
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As an Asian guy from an Asian country that was occupied by the Japanese, XIV Doma has rubbed me off the wrong way a bit. I know it's not the dev's intentions, but it feels like "Doma should throw off its Garlean shackles and return to its natural state of... being a very Japanese version of China".
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May 15, 2019 08:15
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Ibblebibble posted:As an Asian guy from an Asian country that was occupied by the Japanese, XIV Doma has rubbed me off the wrong way a bit. I know it's not the dev's intentions, but it feels like "Doma should throw off its Garlean shackles and return to its natural state of... being a very Japanese version of China".
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May 15, 2019 08:32
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:The thing is it doesn’t sound analogous to SS uniforms, it sounds analogous to the yellow stars Jewish people were forced to wear, which is actually way worse than an SS uniform. I've been trying to think of similar examples and there really aren't any. The New World stuff in this game is not quite the same either, because that's a case of cultural appropriation rather than something that is inherently offensive to a group of people. Closest thing I can think of is the queue, the Manchurian hairstyle the Qing dynasty forced everyone to wear. With the popularity of Sakura Taisen in China, and reading the ad copy on the thing, I think they're just trying to trade on the new game coming out this year. Is Sakura Taisen problematic also?
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May 15, 2019 08:32
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