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It contradicts the fan theory that the space jockies made the alien and some fans can’t take that.
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May 28, 2019 18:00
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The origin of the Alien being David or the Space Jockies makes no god drat difference though. Then again, fans getting mad at nothing sure is a thing!
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May 28, 2019 18:17
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CelticPredator posted:It contradicts the fan theory that the space jockies made the alien and some fans can’t take that. The Derelict in Alien is implied to be super old, but Covenant implies that David invented them like 20 years before the events of ‘Alien’. Also the Space Jockey actually being an albino giant is a huge retcon and even Ridley Scott acknowledged that, but they couldn’t get the suited-up Engineers to match up with the otherworldly proportions of the Space Jockey because “gently caress you”.
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May 28, 2019 18:31
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Xenomrph posted:The Derelict in Alien is implied to be super old, but Covenant implies that David invented them like 20 years before the events of ‘Alien’.
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May 28, 2019 18:34
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Like, the idea of David becoming a god of creation (who intentionally makes humanity’s destroyers) thematically flows from the Engineers ~> humans ~> androids motif, it’s just that like a lot of things in the prequel movies, saddling it with the baggage of the Alien franchise doesn’t do the prequel movies or the old movies any favors.
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May 28, 2019 18:41
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Makes Alien cooler to me tbhqh.
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May 28, 2019 18:45
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Space is full of unkown and unexplainable horrors we can never understand. Lol j/k a crazy, gay robot angry with human beings made them as a evil science project.
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May 28, 2019 18:55
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CelticPredator posted:Makes Alien cooler to me tbhqh. It has the opposite effect for me. I prefer that the Alien is this eldritch horror from aeons past that could be lurking anywhere, waiting for some unsuspecting assholes to stumble upon it and have a really bad day. Reducing it to “David invented them, 2 decades before ‘Alien’” makes it so every Alien anywhere must be trace-able back to him. Which is kinda funny because there have been a whole bunch of comics lately with Aliens all over the goddamn place, so either David was real busy making a tour of the galaxy sprinkling Aliens all over the place, or David is full of poo poo.
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May 28, 2019 18:58
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The comics aren’t canon, so it doesn’t matter any way.
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May 28, 2019 19:05
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But in all seriousness; the alien series just needs to make interesting stories with these creatures. Canon or cinematic universes be damned. Good stories > canon.
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May 28, 2019 19:07
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Xenomrph posted:It has the opposite effect for me. I prefer that the Alien is this eldritch horror from aeons past that could be lurking anywhere, waiting for some unsuspecting assholes to stumble upon it and have a really bad day. Reducing it to “David invented them, 2 decades before ‘Alien’” makes it so every Alien anywhere must be trace-able back to him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8DueZFJVyo David is full of poo poo. That's why he's great.
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May 28, 2019 19:10
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CelticPredator posted:The comics aren’t canon, so it doesn’t matter any way. “Officially” they are canon but that shouldn’t stop you from disregarding them. I’m a real big supporter of the “disregard the official canon, do what makes you happy” train of thought, and OH BOY does that piss off some hardcore fans. CelticPredator posted:But in all seriousness; the alien series just needs to make interesting stories with these creatures. Canon or cinematic universes be damned. I absolutely agree with you, and David making the Alien is still a poo poo idea.
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May 28, 2019 19:16
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It’s my favorite idea.
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May 28, 2019 19:25
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Xenomrph posted:“Officially” they are canon but that shouldn’t stop you from disregarding them. I’m a real big supporter of the “disregard the official canon, do what makes you happy” train of thought, and OH BOY does that piss off some hardcore fans. Look at this alien fanboy calling other people fanboys for telling him his argument doesn't make sense. And your fanboy films are coming from Disney after this final prequel, don't you worry.
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May 28, 2019 19:52
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Slutitution posted:Look at this alien fanboy calling other people fanboys for telling him his argument doesn't make sense. 
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May 28, 2019 20:04
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The RPG says the engineers designed neomorphs. It's a conspiracy...or I misread...No, I just checked and it says engineers made them to clear out life not wiped by the black goo...maybe the rpg is full of poo poo tho....looks like a good game tho.
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May 28, 2019 20:07
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Covok posted:The RPG says the engineers designed neomorphs. I can’t remember if that contradicts anything, I don’t think the movie addresses where the spores that generate Neomorphs come from, they could have come from when David virus-bombed the planet in the flashback. I’d have to check the David’s Drawings book just to see if it gets mentioned*. As an aside, that book is loving great if you want a glimpse into David’s descent into madness, paired with some hosed up artwork. Alien Covenant: David’s Drawings https://www.amazon.com/dp/1785659243/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_WJy7CbT36YMHC *According to the author and artist, the book is supposed to be a really unreliable source of information - it’s got a lot of contradictory stuff on purpose, including multiple vivisections of Shaw. Are they fantasies of what David wanted to do to her? Or maybe he was able to repeatedly heal her using magic Engineer science and vivisect her over and over again? Who knows, either way David isn’t right in the head. The artist also said he drew some *really* hosed up poo poo, but Ridley Scott himself told him to dial it back because it was too extreme. He said he was pretty proud of managing to freak out Ridley Scott.
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May 28, 2019 20:20
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I got the impression it wasn't meant to really make sense and was just to parallel god creating the earth, like the goo is shown flowing in water in Prometheus, the creatures in it are all sea-life sort of things, then eventually the deacon pops up at the end. You see a similar progression in Covenant, plant life, then spores, then the neomorph. David's crazy though, like he didn't create as in literally invent the alien of course, as it's clear he's following plans and the culture of the engineers to what he thinks is the best he can and he even talks about this extensively in Covenant. But the way the ones on the plan David goes to greet that ship arriving, like clearly a hierarchy is established there and engineers in Prometheus itself were also just another rung on the ladder. In my head cannon huge elephantine alien guys closer to what we see as the derelict in Alien created the OG goo/plans for the xenomorph, and the engineers we see in Prometheus had regular contact with them/worshipped them/whatever so their suits, culture/etc. is heavily inspired by them the same way we are by whatever we all worship if we worship something. The flashback in Covenant to me hinted at that even more since it shows that the engineers are widespread and varied technologically and not a monoculture like a lot of sci-fi aliens. I always felt like that's what Prometheus was getting at with Shaw's statements about their DNA and stuff like that, that they predate us but are this advanced, so the notion that life and evolution/God/nature/whatever you believe in was "building up" to humanity existing is objectively false.
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May 28, 2019 20:48
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I really wouldn't assume that David has much to do with the "designs" at all, outside of basic trial and error experimentation. The stuff the Engineers produce is biomechanical, a biological substance that they have somehow "programmed" to have certain inevitable outcomes(i.e. xeno-related, hostile creatures). A weapon that has the ultimate adaptability to whatever environment they introduce it to, because it uses the DNA it encounters as a foundation and then builds the specific thing using that information. They're Gods in the sense that they have very fine control over genetics to the point that they are almost literally creating new life from the ground up. It's guided mutation. So I don't see it as David inventing anything, he's a child playing around in an adult's laboratory and mixing things together just to see what happens. But look at the early scene in Prometheus to see how far beyond understanding the Engineer tech is. David finds these little grooves on the wall, and being the only one that has basic understanding of their language, he knows that it's a switch of some kind. So he moves his fingers over the grooves, and the movement engages some sort of microscopic nanomacines(or whatever they are) that start the hologram projector. So there you've got like a goo/slime substance that the engineers use in a biomechanical way but for a much different purpose than the black goo, which they seem to fear and see as much more volatile, hence the isolated facility in the middle of nowhere.
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May 28, 2019 20:48
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Xenomrph posted:The Derelict in Alien is implied to be super old, but Covenant implies that David invented them like 20 years before the events of ‘Alien’. They just say that the derelict looks old, but they don't know anything about it. None of this matters in the context of Alien though, you don't know enough about the ship or cargo in Alien. It might not even have anything to do with David's work. Owlbear Camus posted:Space is full of unkown and unexplainable horrors we can never understand. Your second sentence describes your first.
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May 28, 2019 20:58
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When you realize that Covenant is a gothic romance mad scientist story its conflict and then combining of old and new technologies and how they play off each other clicks into place.
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May 28, 2019 21:34
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s.i.r.e. posted:They just say that the derelict looks old, but they don't know anything about it.
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May 28, 2019 22:27
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As far as we know, the Derelict is still super old. Edit: While there aren't any proofs of the Space Jockey being a different older specie than the Engineers, the idea that the Engineers themselves have a maker is set up.
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May 28, 2019 22:28
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Slutitution posted:The mural is a deacon/neomorph, and it seemingly doesn't matter how many times this has to be pointed out either. That's why I used the word genus. They're all from the same biological family. The xeno that David genetically designs isn't the same genus as the ones in the later alien movies either. The muscles look more like ligaments than tubes, it doesn't have metal teeth, and the head carapace is slightly different.
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May 28, 2019 22:29
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I thought David was just using Engineer designs in his "creations". I mean he is a robot with a God complex on dead world that used bio-engineering terror goo. Nothing but time to read the Engineers notes and play with them. His xenomorph is different too, no chest burster stage. Nothing precludes the Engineers from have used their versions in other ships. 
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May 28, 2019 23:50
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May 29, 2019 00:29
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Alien RPG is interesting. I'm surprised to see so many references from Dark Horse, unused script bits, the Earth War stuff that never got a good shake, etc. Surprised at the Neomorph. The game can be played under a few different rulesets, the "cinematic" (read: one shot) rules are very deadly. Alien basically roll a d6 (six-sided die), and have a 2/6 chance of instantly killing you. I'm kind of surprised Herk Mondo isn't an NPC. Lots and lots of content from the books and comics. It's good. They really, really did their homework. I thought it would be one of those products that focused on the first two movies, but instead we have quotes from David and stuff throughout. There's an interesting system where you can be a "hidden Android" like Ash or Call, and open get the Android perks once you take critical damage and are exposed as one. Lots of stuff seem... PvP focused. If you outrank another player, you can make a roll to force them to take an action even if it's dangerous. They call the GM the Game Mother instead of Game Master. Kinda funny. Firstborn fucked around with this message at 01:04 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 29, 2019 00:59
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Its been my take since Prometheus that the black goo does what it does because, thematically, Ridley Scott's modern vision of Alien is a universe where god is real, god is explicable, and god hates you, personally, and the more evolved and advanced all life becomes, it becomes closer in nature to god, and you can understand exactly the mechanism by which it happens, but its not gonna help you. all life is created in the imperfect image of its hateful, spiteful and cruel creator, fate and destiny only serve to make you suffer, and all David did in Covenant was accelerate the process that was already happening. Not a very kind world, but by all accounts the dude hasn't been having a good time the last few years.
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May 29, 2019 01:00
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CelticPredator posted:It contradicts the fan theory that the space jockies made the alien and some fans can’t take that. Did someone talk about prometheus?    Prometheus and Alien Covenant are great movies because they complete the awful alien trilogy that consists of Alien Resurrection, Prometheus, and Alien Covenant. Which all pale in the true successors of the series, Alien vs Predator and AVP2 Darker AVP. Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 01:09 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 29, 2019 01:04
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I was with you until you said AvP. What a shitshow.
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May 29, 2019 01:16
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Alien's highest form is action schlock.
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May 29, 2019 01:20
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Predators wrasslin' aliens with the Mario tailswing and the dumb Pred puppy dog eyes in the romance subplot is such poo, though. So much of that movie is so bad. There's some things I like about it, but drat, that's terrible. Requiem was so fuckin' mean-spirited, even if I liked the Hard R and modern setting better. It's weird and cool to see Xenomorph in a contemporary setting.
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May 29, 2019 01:22
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The one of true flaw of the AVP movies is that it was not set in space with colonel marines.
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May 29, 2019 01:26
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Tenzarin posted:The one of true flaw of the AVP movies is that it was not set in space with colonel marines. 
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May 29, 2019 01:32
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Firstborn posted:I was with you until you said AvP. What a shitshow. Yeah AvP1 is mega dogshit, I've given it a chance more than once and it starts off good but I just hate it. Requiem at least doesn't give a gently caress and I can appreciate that it's like, the low budget 80s Italian ripoff of some hypothetical good AvP movie from a year earlier. Its era's Shocking Dark to Aliens.
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May 29, 2019 01:35
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Tenzarin posted:The one of true flaw of the AVP movies is that it was not set in space with colonel marines. There is literally no functional difference between Requiem and a standard AvP colonist/Colonial Marine story.
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May 29, 2019 01:46
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Darko posted:There is literally no functional difference between Requiem and a standard AvP colonist/Colonial Marine story. yeah just watch the movie and imagine an entirely different production design and all the required dialogue and plot changes in your head, idiot. hell if your imagination is good enough you only have to see a few movies in your whole life and you can freely remix them in your head to whatever you want Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 01:55 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 29, 2019 01:52
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And that's how I saw AvG: Alien vs Graboid.
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May 29, 2019 01:57
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I thought Ridley Scott wasn’t getting another alien movie because covenant did poorly and Disney now owns fox. Is it confirmed Ridley Scott is working on a final Alien movie?
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May 29, 2019 01:59
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DropsySufferer posted:I thought Ridley Scott wasn’t getting another alien movie because covenant did poorly and Disney now owns fox. Is it confirmed Ridley Scott is working on a final Alien movie? Yes, report came out saying that he is doing a movie.
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May 29, 2019 02:01
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