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Tab8715 posted:Entirely agreed. I chucked a bit at how he referred to the USSR are socialist. Heh. Heh. Heh. Communism can only be failed comrade!
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May 31, 2019 23:10
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Despera posted:Took me twenty seconds when I was driving. I dont know what your excuse is. While it certainly shows that, what it also shows after the lies and denial finally get somewhat cleared up internally is its incredible ability to mobilize resources and manpower to deal with the disaster in a way I am very sure no democracy ever would. The ability to turn a centralized economy on a dime to combat this, the willingness of its populace to sacrifice due to a moreso collectivist upbringing...those things too were a fairly unique part of the USSR. And while I happen to agree those things don't outweigh an oppresive bureaucracy that blocked the truth with idealistic propaganda and caused more deaths than were otherwise needed, just lol if you think that particular issue is entirely the realm of communism.
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May 31, 2019 23:16
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CrazyLoon posted:While it certainly shows that, what it also shows after the lies and denial finally get somewhat cleared up internally is its incredible ability to mobilize resources and manpower to deal with the disaster in a way I am very sure no democracy ever would. The ability to turn a centralized economy on a dime to combat this, the willingness of its populace to sacrifice due to a moreso collectivist upbringing...those things too were a fairly unique part of the USSR. And while I happen to agree those things don't outweigh an oppresive bureaucracy that blocked the truth with idealistic propaganda and caused more deaths than were otherwise needed, just lol if you think that particular issue is entirely the realm of communism. De-linking the United Soviet Socialist Republic from communism has a long very well refuted history. Also you failed to mention that this accident was directly caused by its lies and denial
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May 31, 2019 23:22
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Like...if you think this show is primarily all about "USSR loving sucked man," I kinda think you're missing the point and I deffo wouldn't have enjoyed it half as much. Instead, and again, it's the original question: "What is the cost of lies?" that applies a lot more universally to every government in the world imo, but of course in the case of Chernobyl the USSR is the relevant government example of how they presented their lies in the communist style. If this kind of thing happened in the US, you can bet your rear end they'd lie their asses about it too during the height of the Cold War, just in a different way since that's a democracy.
CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 23:29 on May 31, 2019 |
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May 31, 2019 23:26
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Remember comrades that your faith in Soviet Socialism will always be rewarded.
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May 31, 2019 23:26
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American miners would have never worked nude in public!
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May 31, 2019 23:26
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Despera posted:De-linking the United Soviet Socialist Republic from communism has a long very well refuted history. Also you failed to mention that this accident was directly caused by its lies and denial I didn't de-link that poo poo lmao, you just pulled that out of your rear end. Or are you gonna do this drive by spam shitpost while driving a car IRL? Hope you don't crash man...seriously...
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May 31, 2019 23:27
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CrazyLoon posted:If this kind of thing happened in the US, you can bet your rear end they'd lie their asses about it too during the height of the Cold War, just in a different way since that's a democracy. I disagree. The free press and first admendent mean something. Nobody would get shot for telling the truth.
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May 31, 2019 23:29
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You’re right, Karen Silkwood was killed with a car.
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May 31, 2019 23:29
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What’s up with the new containment structure only lasting for a hundred years? How does a giant metal building wear out or is it the radiation?
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May 31, 2019 23:33
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El_Elegante posted:You’re right, Karen Silkwood was killed with a car. sure it wasn't your missing scroll button?
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May 31, 2019 23:40
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Tab8715 posted:What’s up with the new containment structure only lasting for a hundred years? While we wait for someone smarter to explain more, I can say that one major issue is that they can't maintain it. That really limits the lifetime of the materials.
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May 31, 2019 23:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgZimhbZj48
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Jun 1, 2019 00:01
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Tab8715 posted:What’s up with the new containment structure only lasting for a hundred years? Neutron embrittlement, I guess.
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Jun 1, 2019 00:01
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7aMcKinrWY
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Jun 1, 2019 00:02
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SocketWrench posted:It's just like how, say, Apollo 13 doesn't come off as political because it was NASA making the calls and not the president/Congress or having literal military guards and secret police ready to enforce the political will at any moment someone started to buck. I only caught this on a recent rewatch, but there’s an awesome glimmer of Chernobyl-esque themes in Apollo 13 where a lot of the tension towards the end is whether or not NASA would tell the astronauts if they were irrevocably hosed in the government’s interest of preserving the nobility and decorum of the space program
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Jun 1, 2019 00:29
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etalian posted:It was also a test which had never been run before and there were multiple issues in setting up test due things like varying power demands. The test had been run before, but tests were inconclusive or flat out failed. This was a test that was supposed to be run on the reactor before it went on line, but because it was rushed to collect soviet cred, this was one of the things they skipped
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Jun 1, 2019 01:24
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Despera posted:Took me twenty seconds when I was driving. I dont know what your excuse is. Tiene los ojos? They are in your avatar Yeah, it's this guy's reading comprehension. It's not really saying anything about the USSR except about how it handled this particular event. That's not a political point, that's just how it is because that's just how it was. Despera posted:I disagree. The free press and first admendent mean something. Nobody would get shot for telling the truth. hahahaha, ok. Because no one has been forced to be quiet or imprisoned to silence them in the US. Now days when everyone has access to the internet, no, it wouldn't stay quiet. Back in '86 when it was newspapers and a few news channels, absolutely. Look how many fuckups we've had with nuke bombs getting lost. It's just becoming available to the public. If the government wants it quiet, it would have been Tab8715 posted:What’s up with the new containment structure only lasting for a hundred years? Weather and time man. Plus this is supposed to be the first step in cleaning up the reactor, hence the robotic cranes inside SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jun 1, 2019 |
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Jun 1, 2019 01:31
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I love that upon finding out that the soundtrack is made up of ambient recordings from an actual nuclear power plant I was like "yeah figures this show owns so hard." Zero surprise, show owns.
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Jun 1, 2019 01:47
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lol
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Jun 1, 2019 02:11
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etalian posted:lol 
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Jun 1, 2019 02:51
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another failed simple test...
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Jun 1, 2019 03:06
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Xanderkish posted:For some reason this quote got me on a convoluted train of thought that somehow ended on the phrase "Uber but for nuclear fission". If you think about it, Chernobyl is really more like Lime but for nuclear fission. It's just dumping its product all over the place and expecting the government to clean up after it fails.
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Jun 1, 2019 03:32
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etalian posted:another failed simple test... Komrade Freeman is delirious...send him to the infirmary!
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Jun 1, 2019 04:39
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You guys are having too much fun, here have some  from Voices from Chernobyl, interview with a liquidator. 
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Jun 1, 2019 05:36
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RagnarokZ posted:One of the construction plans were canceled in TWO-THOUSAND AND loving TWELVE! What lunatic at Rosatom thought that was a good idea? That one never made it to operation, probably just had it on the maybe list for years. Construction started in 1985
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Jun 1, 2019 05:50
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Despera posted:I disagree. The free press and first admendent mean something. Nobody would get shot for telling the truth. Are you sure about that?
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Jun 1, 2019 07:35
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CrazyLoon posted:While it certainly shows that, what it also shows after the lies and denial finally get somewhat cleared up internally is its incredible ability to mobilize resources and manpower to deal with the disaster in a way I am very sure no democracy ever would. The ability to turn a centralized economy on a dime to combat this, the willingness of its populace to sacrifice due to a moreso collectivist upbringing...those things too were a fairly unique part of the USSR. And while I happen to agree those things don't outweigh an oppresive bureaucracy that blocked the truth with idealistic propaganda and caused more deaths than were otherwise needed, just lol if you think that particular issue is entirely the realm of communism. I'm sceptical that a democratic systems wouldn't have been able to deal with the situation in the same way. The incentives would have been somewhat different (money, instead of coercion) but you wouldn't have had trouble to find volunteers. And even if, you just keep cranking up the rewards till you have enough people. For the less dangerous stuff where you need a lot of warm bodies, they would have had to use conscripted forces. But most of Europe abolished compulsory military service only a decade ago so it's not such a wild thought and certainly wasn't back then. Militaries are often involved in disaster relief. Unrelated, I don't think the show is making any points about economic systems. This poo poo can happen anywhere where you get authoritarian structures, secrecy, paranoia and a lot of pressure. One of the most famous nuclear incidents in Germany happened only a month after Chernobyl when a company conspired to cover up a release of radioactive materials in the hopes that it would go unnoticed with all the Chernobyl fallout. The thing only got uncovered after a whistleblower reached out to the authorities. It was one of the pivotal events in the anti-nuclear movement cause it demonstrated that you can't trust these chucklefucks to run something so dangerous, even under the best of conditions and with functional oversight. The release was miniscule, but the effect on the public trust was enormous. If these kind of people had been in charge of the reactor in case of a serious emergency, we would all have been absolutely hosed.
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Jun 1, 2019 08:02
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This is also why fracking just needs to stop. All this wishy washy bullshit about it being safe, as soon as some beancounter thinks it costs too much there goes the drinkingwater.
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Jun 1, 2019 08:11
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Mr Shiny Pants posted:This is also why fracking just needs to stop. All this wishy washy bullshit about it being safe, as soon as some beancounter thinks it costs too much there goes the drinkingwater. Dear customer, you didn't taste benzene in the tap water because it's not there.
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Jun 1, 2019 08:32
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Opferwurst posted:Dear customer, you didn't taste benzene in the tap water because it's not there. "It's flavoured...."
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Jun 1, 2019 08:38
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The flavor is not a bug, it's a feature
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Jun 1, 2019 10:21
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Chernobyl Otter Pops. They’re all grey. They taste like metal.
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Jun 1, 2019 10:25
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HBO takes the viral marketing of Chernobyl to the next level in Dzerzhinsk, Russia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw6rXeV2kC8 Either that or they're taking extreme measures to put Russians off pirating the series. For context, an explosive factory exploded earlier today.
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Jun 1, 2019 11:56
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Dzerzhinsk is/was/might still be one of Russia's biggest CW manufacturing sites. Definitely not a place you want to put on your to-see list: http://www.cbrneportal.com/dzerzhinsk-a-toxic-paradise/
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Jun 1, 2019 12:01
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So I watched the first two eps and this is really good so far Makes me want to see a disaster series done in a quality way like this but on a bigger scale. Like "what if Chernobyl, except the world as we know it is really coming to an end this time so we gotta deal with it all"
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Jun 1, 2019 12:21
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Collapsing Farts posted:Makes me want to see a disaster series done in a quality way like this but on a bigger scale. Like "what if Chernobyl, except the world as we know it is really coming to an end this time so we gotta deal with it all" Go outside.
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Jun 1, 2019 12:29
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Tab8715 posted:What’s up with the new containment structure only lasting for a hundred years? So far as I understand it, the structure is designed to last 100 years which means that reasonably with good maintenance it will last longer than that. The fact is though, buildings naturally deteriorate over time and while the place may well last 100 years easily, it will depend on the maintenance and upkeep of the building by its caretakers over that time. There is lots of mechanisms already in place to counteract natural aging and corrosion the building, for example the entire outer shell has a heating/ventilation system designed to make sure that the inside doesn't accumulate condensation which could compromise the support beams or anything. Remember though that the NSC is not just designed to contain Chernobyl, the point is that they can work on actually deconstructing the building itself. Hopefully in 100 years time they will have made enough progress that such a mammoth containment structure might actually not be needed (realistically, they think it should be done by 2065). Its tough to say though because while they have a reasonable idea of what to expect and how they will go about the job, it will undoubtedly throw curve-balls at them constantly. The NSC is absolutely incredible though, its the largest moving structure in the world and the inside is fully designed so that it supports two huge movable cranes that are capable of lifting some of the absolutely giant support beams and reinforced concrete barriers that keep the current sarcophagus from collapsing. They plan to pick the whole thing apart piece by piece and lift it off and away so they can break it down as small as possible to safely dispose of. Its really clever and if you get some time its definitely worth watching some videos on Youtube which go into depth on the topic. FiftySeven fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Jun 1, 2019 |
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Jun 1, 2019 12:34
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Can't we just nuke Chernobyl?
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Jun 1, 2019 13:02
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Jun 1, 2019 13:05
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