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Sham bam bamina! posted:Nerdburger was sarcastically referencing Mel's ideas about the 20th-century rise to prominence of fantasy (response to WWI) and sci-fi (response to nukes). oh what i missed this. what a stupid statement
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May 19, 2019 08:29
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fairy tales are fantasy lol
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May 19, 2019 15:25
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I feel this is a criticism of the term rather than the feeling. Like, when people say they want to read on to see what happens next, I think it's fair to interpret that as they're enjoying the immediate feeling of suspense and uncertainty. So criticism of "plot driven" novels is kind of silly, it should be criticisn of, I dunno, anticipatory novels, that have the expectation of epiphany. It's mostly a farty way of saying the prose has to come first. The immediate effects of the words is brought to bear far sooner, and on a more primary basis than the effect of the plot. The plot, and the construction of the story is a secondary action for the reader, as they experience the words firstly, then work to put it in a frame from what came before, and what is likely to come after. To use extremes as an example, the most exciting storyline ever will never be taken in if the process of getting that story, experiencing the immediate words is dull as ditch-water. However an extremely involved experience of reading might make a dull story come to life due to the words instant effect. It's just a case of which is the more experienced aspect of reading, and the immediately experienced is the words, which has to carry the whole thing.
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May 19, 2019 17:19
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Mrenda posted:It's mostly a farty way of saying the prose has to come first. The immediate effects of the words is brought to bear far sooner, and on a more primary basis than the effect of the plot. The plot, and the construction of the story is a secondary action for the reader, as they experience the words firstly, then work to put it in a frame from what came before, and what is likely to come after. To use extremes as an example, the most exciting storyline ever will never be taken in if the process of getting that story, experiencing the immediate words is dull as ditch-water. However an extremely involved experience of reading might make a dull story come to life due to the words instant effect. This sounds true but then you have the issue of people’s favorite books being Fifty Shades of Gray or Name of the Wind or whatever.
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May 19, 2019 18:16
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Mrenda posted:It's mostly a farty way of saying the prose has to come first. The immediate effects of the words is brought to bear far sooner, and on a more primary basis than the effect of the plot. The plot, and the construction of the story is a secondary action for the reader, as they experience the words firstly, then work to put it in a frame from what came before, and what is likely to come after. To use extremes as an example, the most exciting storyline ever will never be taken in if the process of getting that story, experiencing the immediate words is dull as ditch-water. However an extremely involved experience of reading might make a dull story come to life due to the words instant effect. I think a perfect example of this prose first approach is the book I'm listening to now, Alan Hollinghurst's The Sparsholt Affair. A lot of what would normally be considered the main plot events are told entirely through inference or are related to the perspective character second hand after they've happened but it's so beautifully emotive and stylish you don't even notice until you sit down an think about it later. An absolutely wonderful book.
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May 19, 2019 23:13
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The Passion According to G.H. is another one. it's a stunning read but barely anything actually "happens"
Tim Burns Effect fucked around with this message at 02:16 on May 20, 2019 |
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May 19, 2019 23:51
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my dog says the vacuum cleaner is a dragon
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May 20, 2019 03:45
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nankeen posted:my dog says the vacuum cleaner is a dragon When is your dog's debut novel coming out?
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May 20, 2019 09:34
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Chuck Wendig is maybe the author I don't understand or see why people like him. Even Sanderson, who I don't enjoy at all, it's easy enough to see that he has ideas that appeal to teenage boys or people who are still teenage boys mentally. Sanderson just writes YA But For Boys. But Wendig? I randomly purchased one of Wendig's books of writing advice years ago. The advice itself seems fine, very much in line with what I've since heard from several other authors. But dear God does that man have an obnoxious writing style: Listen up, you DILDO MONKEY. Show, don't motherfucking tell. Telling is for bratty kids who see their brother reading a porno mag. Nobody likes THAT kid. I then made the mistake of trying one of his novels thinking surely he doesn't adopt such a ridiculous voice in his narrative works. He did. What did he get fired for again? He was writing some Star Wars poo poo and then got canned around the same time James Gunn did. I vaguely remember it being political, and thinking "well I don't disagree with what he said but I'm not in the least bit surprised this guy got fired, he has no filter." Edit: it was literally the same reason as Gunn. Marvel fired him for vulgar tweets, some of which were current. Don't agree with the outcome, but not surprised it happened to him of all people.
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May 20, 2019 16:53
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That was my attempt to parody Wendig, if that wasn't clear. To be fair to the man I pulled up my ebook copy of 500 Ways to Tell a Better Story and flipped to a random page. Here's his actual writing: 25 Things To Know About Writing The First Chapter Of Your Novel 1. Every Book A Hook (And The First Chapter's The Bait) A reader walks into a bookstore. Spies an interesting book. What does she do? Picks it up. Flips to the first chapter before anything else. At least, that's what I do. (Then I smell the book and rub it on my bare stomach in a circular motion and make mmmmm noises.) Or, if I can find the first chapter online somewhere -- Amazon, the author's or publisher's site, your Mom's Myspace page -- I'll read it there. One way or another, I want to see that first chapter. Because that's where you grab me by the balls or where you push me out the door. The first chapter is where you use me or lose me. -- Like I said, his fiction (at least the hundred or so pages of it I read before giving up) is very similar. That sample isn't the most egregious, but he can't go more than one or two lines without throwing in ~random vulgarity~ or ~edgy humor~.
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May 20, 2019 17:06
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pff, "show don't tell" is lovely advice anyway. literally every writing guide says something like that, so it's not smart or innovative to say either. the only writing guide i feel has actually improved my writing is Stephen King's one.
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May 20, 2019 17:08
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there was a twitter thread making the rounds last month about "show don't tell" reinscribes white male dominance by extracting emotional labour from the reader
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May 20, 2019 19:00
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chernobyl kinsman posted:there was a twitter thread making the rounds last month about "show don't tell" reinscribes white male dominance by extracting emotional labour from the reader I understand "show, don't tell" from a scriptwriting perspective, but from a literary perspective it doesn't really make that much sense because everything is "tell" unless we are talking about a writter being overly descriptive or lacking nuance which seems like generic bad writer problems. Also, I think extracting emotional labour from the reader is kinda the point of literature, isn't it?
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May 20, 2019 21:28
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making someone feel an emotion = extracting emotional labour
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May 20, 2019 22:08
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i've been exploiting you all for years
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May 20, 2019 22:08
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http://twitter.com/bulkUSBchargers/status/1114262419268874240
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May 20, 2019 22:37
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Pacho posted:I understand "show, don't tell" from a scriptwriting perspective, but from a literary perspective it doesn't really make that much sense because everything is "tell" unless we are talking about a writter being overly descriptive or lacking nuance which seems like generic bad writer problems. Also, I think extracting emotional labour from the reader is kinda the point of literature, isn't it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBhR4QcBtE
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May 20, 2019 22:54
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Emotional labour isn't real and can therefore be ignored
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May 21, 2019 00:09
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It's
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May 21, 2019 00:13
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it's so good lmao
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May 21, 2019 00:24
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One example of "telling, not showing" in literature that comes to my mind is when the main character is supposed to change in the novel and narrator constantly tells the reader about this big change, but character's actions/dialogue isn't in any way different than in the beginning.
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May 21, 2019 10:10
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Pacho posted:I understand "show, don't tell" from a scriptwriting perspective, but from a literary perspective it doesn't really make that much sense because everything is "tell" unless we are talking about a writter being overly descriptive or lacking nuance which seems like generic bad writer problems. Also, I think extracting emotional labour from the reader is kinda the point of literature, isn't it? The idea of "show, don't tell" is basic beginner advice. Show: Mark slammed the phone on the receiver and stormed off into the adjacent room. Tell: Mark was angry. It's basically just making readers infer something through context and description rather than outright stating something. So, yeah, it's addressed to generic bad writing. There are many instances in which telling is appropriate though, so it's not an ironclad rule per se.
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May 21, 2019 15:03
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Show don't tell makes me think of some guys opening up a gay bar on a military base
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May 21, 2019 18:41
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Sampatrick posted:Show don't tell makes me think of some guys opening up a gay bar on a military base BRB writing a pitch for HBO.
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May 22, 2019 09:21
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I recently read an essay by Ursula Le Guin complaining about the modernist tone in fantasy writing. IIRC it was from the late 70s, but I can't be sure. Does anyone have a link or know where I can find it? She regularly wrote essays, so a general search hasn't met with any luck. Thanks.
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May 28, 2019 07:25
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Xotl posted:I recently read an essay by Ursula Le Guin complaining about the modernist tone in fantasy writing. IIRC it was from the late 70s, but I can't be sure. Does anyone have a link or know where I can find it? She regularly wrote essays, so a general search hasn't met with any luck. Thanks. Was it from this collection? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Language_of_the_Night
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May 28, 2019 14:10
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wizzardstaff posted:Was it from this collection? Turns out it was. It's "From Elfland to Poughkeepsie": I found it complete in a Google Books search. Thanks!
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May 28, 2019 17:59
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im playing doki doki literature club
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May 30, 2019 16:05
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chernobyl kinsman posted:im playing doki doki literature club good game
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May 30, 2019 20:26
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What do you think of it? When can I expect a critical look at this genre work?
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May 31, 2019 11:10
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i tried doki doki back in the day but it just took too loving long to get to the point and it wasn't entertaining so i gave up long before i saw any bloodshed
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Jun 1, 2019 01:53
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was there actually a twist beyond "the girls murder each other"
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Jun 1, 2019 01:58
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nankeen posted:was there actually a twist beyond "the girls murder each other" One of the characters breaks the fourth wall and does some funny meta stuff on the Steam store page and the source files on your PC. I found it interesting for playing with the central conceit of dating and romance games - that you and your player character can determine the emotional disposition of the characters in the game. Of course, the game uses that idea to explore mental illness and emotional manipulation in a very superficial and exploitative way, but at least it displays some critical awareness of the genre. The poems the characters write are also better than you'd expect.
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Jun 1, 2019 03:01
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:What do you think of it? When can I expect a critical look at this genre work? it owns. that;s my review
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Jun 1, 2019 05:06
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thanx
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Jun 1, 2019 08:18
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One thing I appreciate about doki doki is that it doesn't take too long to do its thing, unlike so many visual novels where it takes 10-20 hours before they "get good" or what have you
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Jun 1, 2019 12:14
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Just what the Book Barn was missing: a thread for video games.
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Jun 1, 2019 12:28
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genre is dead!
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Jun 1, 2019 12:36
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fantasy, science fiction, horror, magical realism, "young adult", all of these terms are just insulting and unnecessary attempts to define the indefinable, and from now on i will make it my mission that if i hear any man invoke these terms, i will slay him
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Jun 1, 2019 12:39
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nankeen posted:fantasy, science fiction, horror, magical realism, "young adult", all of these terms are just insulting and unnecessary attempts to define the indefinable, and from now on i will make it my mission that if i hear any man invoke these terms, i will slay him A true psychological thriller of a post.
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Jun 1, 2019 12:42
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