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Discussion of Trump's intelligence and political methodology would seem to me to be a good idea for its own thread... Tax: google cats in pajamas.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:29
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Wow. Some powerful discussion hapeninig right now itt. Im here for it
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Jun 7, 2019 16:30
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RandomBlue posted:https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1136836470570774534 what a stupid loving time to be alive.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:31
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The thing about understanding Trump is you have to throw out absolutely every assumption you have about basic human psychology and rebuild it from the ground up, because the truth is Trump exist in such a profoundly altered state of consciousness that his brain is simply operating in a completely different mode. I assume that most people here are already familiar with the concept of disassociation and disassociate of states, well there are a number of disassociated states and each of those States in terms functions on a spectrum of severity. There is a particular disassociative "autopilot" state the human mind can enter when it is under extraordinary stress or danger. In this altered state the inner dialogue of the Mind sees his completely and all there is is the commands of the limbic system, which in a survival state is just screaming at you to survive survive survive survive. (If you read accounts of people who have been through extreme survival situations you will sometimes find references to people experiencing this state for a few hours.) Within this altered state there is no room for the concept of morality or ideology or long-term planning, there is no ability for 8nternal reasoning the way you understand it in normal waking conciousness- there really is only the explicit commands of the limbic system. This auto pilot state is not something that's exclusive to adult fully developed brains, if you put a child into sufficient stress they can also enter this Auto Pilot State. And because their brains are still developing, if you put a child into this Auto Pilot State enough times than one of those times it's simply gets left stuck on. This is what has happened to Trump. If I had to guesstimate based on his behavior Trump has probably been permanently stuck in his disassociative autopilot States since he was about 9 or 10 years old. Instead of going through the normal process of discovering ones identity, in the stove Society of State Trump's brain has built his identity around purely pursuing the commands of the limbic system. Eat/sleep/fick, and pursue dopamine Highs are the only things running through Trump's mind. Remembering that Trump's mind drives him to pursue dopamine highs is pretty crucial for understanding how Trump operates. Trump is it trying to communicate ideas or information when he speaks, what he is actually doing is more akin to a machine learning algorithm- he's spitting out words and phrases to see the reaction they generate, and if those words and phrases generate the praise that triggers a dopamine dump in brain, then he uses those phrases the next time the topic they are associated with is discussed around him. That's all it is. For example, the reason Trump always believes the last thing someone told him about it. That is because those people just gave Trump a dopamine dump in exchange for repeating particular words and phrases. So the next time he gets into a situation where that topic is introduced his brain just kicks out those words and phrases because he's an addict looking for his next fix. Now as bizarre as Trumps neuropsychology sounds, it's not quite as uncommon as you would think. Certain types of individuals (namely sociopaths and psychopaths) are able to clue in sufficiently to Trump's fundamental psychological state that they can convince themselves that he's just another tool that they can manipulate if they figure out the proper way to manipulate the strings. Give an individual at Trump psychological State some real power and Surround him with a bunch of sociopaths and Psychopaths and you have the Mad King situation playing out. (It turns out that modern knowledge and modern technology don't make a drat bit of difference in preventing this scenario from playing out.) Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jun 7, 2019 |
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Jun 7, 2019 16:31
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Or he's just dumb. I know a lot of dumb guys.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:34
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SpeakSlow posted:Tax: google cats in pajamas. Do not do this. Just from the title image I know this might hurt your brain somehow. A real tax-  
KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jun 7, 2019 |
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Jun 7, 2019 16:36
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Ringo Star Get posted:Watching HBO’s Chernobyl and you can definitely see some parallels with today’s use of “fake news”. It was the most terrifying thing to realize that the feeling I've had lately, that everyone around me is denying the evidence of their own eyes and ears in service of a comfortable lie, was the same one as that guy being told he was wrong about the graphite on the ground and to go check out the reactor (that wasn't there), knowing that it'd be fatal, and then get ignored anyway after he sacrificed his health.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:36
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Rigel posted:The tariffs have to actually happen, not 5% briefly and then a deal is announced as they now hope, but they need to creep up and up and up towards 25% to the point where they realize "oh God, they really are going to do this, aren't they". Eh. So much of trading volume is algorithmic and so much of the actual money is institutional that it's basically impossible to predict what'll actually affect the market as a whole. The mental image that everyone has of a whole bunch of individual traders watching the news and suddenly panicking isn't really accurate at all.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:40
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Or he's just dumb. Trump is literally just an exaggerated version of several of the abusers I was exposed to in cult circles. He isn't merely dumb, actually despite his brains dysfunction he's something of a genius. He is extraordinary really talented at reading individuals / crowds and gauging what he needs to do to get praise from them in that given moment. You're not dealing with someone who's merely dumb- Trump is effectively a hardcore addict in a permanently disassociative state. Dumb people do dumb poo poo- but they won't enthusiastically rape their own children (because their limbic system commands it) like Trump will. I personally believe that understanding how your opponents truly operate is critically important, simply reducing their motivations or issues to something as simplistic as them being "dumb" is a mistake. Sun Tzu said it best in The Art of War: "If you understand yourself but you do not understand your opponent, then for every vitory you achieve you will also experience one defeat." Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jun 7, 2019 |
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Jun 7, 2019 16:40
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Or he's just dumb. I think PJ is probably pretty on the nose with this. There are some clues pointing to his juvenile mindset that go beyond just being a dumb person IMO. W can see he's obsessive concerning friends and acceptance, and has a fixation toward certain words like "loser" (I think this was something he was called a lot as a kid, so it's a deeply meaningful insult for him).
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Jun 7, 2019 16:42
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The fundamental problem for workable centrism in the country is that, well, Obamacare was an ultimate centrist bill (one could even call it conservative!), but it was treated like it was personally penned by Lenin with an introduction by Mao Zedong... So saying "they should just work together for a compromise in interest of all Americans; now excuse me, I've got a game to watch" is wildly inconsistent with reality.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:44
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Centrists are people who believe compromise is always possible so they're unable to recognize when it isn't.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:45
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RandomBlue posted:https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1136836470570774534 I'd like to think in most countries the electorate would be able to detect all these people's constant lies and bullshit collapsing in on itself at a breakneck pace where they literally don't hold up more than a 48 hour news cycle before being proven patently false. However, it's getting really scary how I'm noticing more and more people being totally incapable of thinking for themselves and just listening to and parroting the biggest loudest populist voices in the room that says the things that are the most convenient for them to hear and believe. Like honestly it's one of the flat out scariest trends I've noticed in the 2010's. It's not even just politics, people nowadays will literally just believe and parrot the opinions and positions of whatever the gently caress they want based on a misguided appeal to authority (i.e this guy has the most watched pundit show in prime time news or this person has 2 million subscriber on youtube/twitter) and no amount of overwhelming evidence or genuine logical analysis to the contrary will convince them otherwise. As long as your insulated by a base of x number of subscribers, voters, supporters or whatever you can apparently just lie your rear end off and behave however you want and it's totally acceptable in 2019. Any time you challenge these sorts people on their steadfast held beliefs in sometimes flat out bullshit you're just being "a hater" or not being fair to such and such or whatever. These sorts of people that would just flat out believe constant lies and disregard any inconvenient happenings and who would try to tell you that the things that you are literally hearing from a day ago never happened are legit unreachable IMO. For all Trump and his teams faults and sheer idiocy at one point at least it seems like they were among the first political bloc to notice this phenomenon in the social media age of information and take advantage of it with their rhetoric in building a base and securing the electoral college victory. He seems to have forgotten the overall strategy now though, but doesn't really need to as Fox News and the Republican National Convention is more than happy to carry water for him.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:45
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There Bias Two posted:I think PJ is probably pretty on the nose with this. There are some clues pointing to his juvenile mindset that go beyond just being a dumb person IMO. W can see he's obsessive concerning friends and acceptance, and has a fixation toward certain words like "loser" (I think this was something he was called a lot as a kid, so it's a deeply meaningful insult for him). Eh, you probably also have to consider that his mental capacity is seriously reduced by senility and he almost certainly genuinely can't grasp complicated situations or information.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:47
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haveblue posted:Centrists are people who believe compromise is always possible so they're unable to recognize when it isn't. They're the people who lose an election to fascists and then just go back to their management job the next day. Except now they're managing slaves instead of workers and really that's a lot less trouble so the fascists aren't all bad.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:47
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Kale posted:I'd like to think in most countries the electorate would be able to detect all these people's constant lies and bullshit collapsing in on itself at a breakneck pace where they literally don't hold up more than a 48 hour news cycle before being proven patently false. However, it's getting really scary how I'm noticing more and more people being totally incapable of thinking for themselves and just listening to and parroting the biggest loudest populist voices in the room that says the things that are the most convenient for them to hear and believe. The entire country is being gas-lit by a clinical narcissist. I ten thousand times over recommend that everyone in this thread watch this interview from January 2017. It's from a Russian dissident who detailed the exact psychological processes that are playing out right now in terms of the general public becoming overwhelmed and just going with the flow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwQeKSlY56Q
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Jun 7, 2019 16:49
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theflyingorc posted:Because he sat down, shut up, and went away. His only public appearances are at funerals and charity events. do you not remember the series of liberal commentators proclaiming he was now an ally of democrats because he gave Michelle Obama some candy at McCain's funeral trump will sneeze something about how Tom Cotton looks like a dog at the State of the Union and the same dipshits will immediately fall over themselves in the rush to put out pieces on how we need to make common cause with him against the new enemy.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:52
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fool_of_sound posted:Eh, you probably also have to consider that his mental capacity is seriously reduced by senility and he almost certainly genuinely can't grasp complicated situations or information. IMO his senity is just making it more obvious, if you watch his interviews from the 80s it's obvious that the same basic dysfunction is going on, it's just a much more polished performance because his brain wasn't yet worn down by age/senility.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:54
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https://twitter.com/N0MEABAND0NES/status/1135647587065839617
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Jun 7, 2019 16:55
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SpeakSlow posted:Discussion of Trump's intelligence and political methodology would seem to me to be a good idea for its own thread... I legit miss the Trump thread. It just felt easier to jump in on a given day and the topic would be something that felt legitimately pertinent and like I had something to add too it and less likely to be some variation of Dems bad, Decorum bad, Centrism bad, which by the way you could also probably fill a thread with by sheer volume of topical focus at the very least. Ershalim posted:Bad news about GWB's approval rating, if that's what you're hoping for: https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/22/politics/george-w-bush-favorable-poll/index.html I mean that's cool I guess but barely matters cause he hasn't been President for nearly 12 years and is generally only relevant when he shows up at one of those public events with all the other former presidents. The only thing I can add is that it's better than Trumps and better than what he ended his term with by a wide margin. Incidentally how the hell do you miss a job creation prediction by more than half? 
Kale fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jun 7, 2019 |
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Jun 7, 2019 16:56
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Kale posted:I'd like to think in most countries the electorate would be able to detect all these people's constant lies and bullshit collapsing in on itself at a breakneck pace where they literally don't hold up more than a 48 hour news cycle before being proven patently false. However, it's getting really scary how I'm noticing more and more people being totally incapable of thinking for themselves and just listening to and parroting the biggest loudest populist voices in the room that says the things that are the most convenient for them to hear and believe. While I agree with you that it’s scary, I think it’s a problem that is mostly with Fox News and their legendarily stupid viewership. Not in a traditional or formal educational stance, mind you, but in day-to-day happenings in the world, people who watch Fox News are less informed than people who don’t watch the news at all. You have to be a stone-cold idiot to be able to watch Fox News and not see the daily hypocrisy and lies, so that’s why their viewership can be treated like they’re morons and lied to constantly. The only bright side is that their viewership is mostly old people who won’t be torturing us for much longer as the grim reaper waits for no one. 
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Jun 7, 2019 17:01
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Kale posted:I legit miss the Trump thread. It just felt easier to jump in on a given day and the topic would be something that felt legitimately pertinent and like I had something to add too it and less likely to be some variation of Dems bad, Decorum bad, Centrism bad, which by the way you could also probably fill a thread with by sheer volume of topical focus at the very least. Please watch that Samantha Bee interview I posted above, it's something people like yourself really need to hear.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:03
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Kale posted:Incidentally how the hell do you miss a job creation prediction by more than half? Well when you are actively in the process of denying things like facts, research, and figures, it's pretty easy to be catastrophically wrong.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:04
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Kale posted:Incidentally how the hell do you miss a job creation prediction by more than half? You announce huge swerves in economic policy with knee-jerk tweets, also your advisors are all moron ideologues who you don't listen to anyway.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:08
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:do you not remember the series of liberal commentators proclaiming he was now an ally of democrats because he gave Michelle Obama some candy at McCain's funeral I don't remember that. do you remember that?
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Jun 7, 2019 17:09
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saw Glenn Greenwald was on Tucker defending Crowder and saying essentially that the straight white male is the most discriminated against person in tyool 2019 while attacking gaywonk, does anyone on the left still defend this piece of poo poo lmao
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Jun 7, 2019 17:13
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Ripoff posted:While I agree with you that it’s scary, I think it’s a problem that is mostly with Fox News and their legendarily stupid viewership. Not in a traditional or formal educational stance, mind you, but in day-to-day happenings in the world, people who watch Fox News are less informed than people who don’t watch the news at all. This is half true. FOX News is an infectious disease, but they control the narrative of ALL media, not just the media their viewership sees. Thanks to the big fuckoff controversy with Crowder, I came across a video by Carlos Maza that talks about the cycle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzoZf4IAfAc tl;dw -- By making a big shitstorm over any issue they want, FOX can make other news media outlets talk about things because by virtue of FOX blaring it 24/7, anything they decide to do that with BECOMES newsworthy. It's part of what Prester Jane was saying before: it's a tactic that was used in Russia and exposed by Masha Gessen, but this is the face of modern propaganda. That exhaustion we feel from dealing with this poo poo all the time is the entire point of it. Ershalim fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jun 7, 2019 |
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Jun 7, 2019 17:14
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Ripoff posted:While I agree with you that it’s scary, I think it’s a problem that is mostly with Fox News and their legendarily stupid viewership. Not in a traditional or formal educational stance, mind you, but in day-to-day happenings in the world, people who watch Fox News are less informed than people who don’t watch the news at all. I see it in younger people too for things even like opinions on media like games, movies etc. It's not clear to me how deep it goes just yet, but I'm starting to see what looks like people waiting around for a popular Youtuber or blogger to tell them what their opinion is going to be on something and then just noticing their followers starting to parrot the gently caress out of it. Like people that are legitimately proud to un-ironically say things like "I just wait for *insert popular youtuber to give their opinion* on this thing before I decide how I feel about it". As if deferring their position on something to a total stranger with some ill-defined charisma and application of well known and trodden internet memes is supposed to be some sort of badge of honor. It's not as damaging as say Sean Hannity going on his program to bleat off lies about political happenings with a blatant bias towards what Trump wants to see him say, but it's a sign that young people are susceptible too the same sort of indoctrination and just deferring their opinion to some big loud rear end in a top hat type. I honestly feel like people like Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro have managed to really seize upon this phenomenon too to gain their followings. Like the sorts of people that would swear they are both utterly brilliant but entirely incapable of articulating how or why when pressed beyond some nonsense about how they "own the libs" and it's "funny". Try pressing on what the perceived value of "owning the libs" is and what one actually gains from the exercise and the typical response is to do what they always seem to do in the absence of a sound rational argument or opinion, just get loving mad and call their buddies to try to bury you in shitposting. e: It's also rich to see Peterson recently complaining about the left returning to "tribalist thinking" when the very base of his popular support essentially relies on that sort of thing. Kale fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jun 7, 2019 |
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Jun 7, 2019 17:14
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Kale posted:Incidentally how the hell do you miss a job creation prediction by more than half? Because the monthly jobs report is just based on two surveys that both have their own set of problems? Like, it's an interesting enough data point and it's not bad, but most predictions are just voodoo nonsense that assume the results this month will largely be the same as the results from last month.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:14
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I don't remember that. do you remember that? Time posted:There’s nothing like a piece of candy between two bipartisan buds. Boston Herald posted:There was a moment between former President George W. Bush and former first lady Michelle Obama during John McCain’s funeral last August that captured what America has lost, and what most of us know we badly need. A camera panned on the former president furtively slipping a cough drop to Mrs. Obama, sitting next to him, while they both kept their eyes on the service in front of them. Cameras don’t lie, and millions of Americans who saw the clip saw a moment between two friends.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:17
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I don't remember that. do you remember that? hahah do you really not remember that.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:21
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Prester Jane posted:To be blunt Centrists like yourself are completely incapable of confronting fascists- because you don't understand conflict, hatred, fascism, or the will to power. That's why you feel you have nothing to contribute here. (Because you don't.) Well if that's the way you truly feel then why do I need to pay any attention to any of the things you suggested for me to watch and your overall arguments? Clearly I just "won't get it" because reasons and because I am apparently such and such and wholly incapable of such and such etc. etc. e: I watched them anyway because I like to hear about these things and Samantha Bee almost always does good work that I find myself largely in agreement with. I'm also an NDP voter, but hey centrist it is I guess.... Kale fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jun 7, 2019 |
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Jun 7, 2019 17:30
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https://twitter.com/randygdub/status/1136798302664445952 https://twitter.com/randygdub/status/1136799205429719041
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Jun 7, 2019 17:31
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Groovelord Neato posted:hahah do you really not remember that. I remember people treating it as a sweet human moment, not whatever weird thing he's claiming.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:31
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while quite good I will always remember this loving article John Mccain's Funeral Was the Biggest Resistance Meeting Yet, No, Seriously, That's The Title Of The loving Piece posted:In any other context, maybe it would not seem to be a stinging criticism to hear Obama praise the “rule of law.” But Trump is the inescapable context of these times in Washington. “Perhaps above all,” Bush said, “John detested the abuse of power.” When Bush talked about McCain’s dedication to America’s leadership in the world and his hatred of tyrants, how many of those listening thought of the current President’s praise for many of those same dictators whom McCain had been so proud to oppose? Of course they thought of it. That was the point.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:31
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Kale posted:Incidentally how the hell do you miss a job creation prediction by more than half? It's empty calories but still fun...I plan on calling a local AM radio CHUD that likes letting me on the air as a token liberal today and I'm going to revisit my call from last month where he was bragging about how many jobs Trump has created and how this is only the beginning and etc. His reasoning? Well, all the burdensome regulations Trump cut, of course! So it's been one month, it's not like the landscape changed much except Donny Dumbfuck's tariffs. Let's see what he has to say. I just love smacking CHUDs across the face with cold hard reality. First time I did it, I incited an entire radio hour of pissed off response calls from his fans.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:33
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Kale posted:Well if that's the way you truly feel then why do I need to pay any attention to any of the things you suggested for me to watch and your overall arguments? Clearly I just "won't get it" because reasons and because I am apparently such and such and wholly incapable of such and such etc. etc. Oh I never expected you to bother educating yourself, I'm just telling you where the information is for when you're (eventually) ready for it. (I'm in love with how your response to being bluntly challenged is to refuse to engage with information because it wasn't presented respectfully enough. Truly you are the Avatar of modern centrism.)
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Jun 7, 2019 17:33
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I remember people treating it as a sweet human moment, not whatever weird thing he's claiming. the new yorker proclaimed him to be a member of the #resistance, oocc. the centrist hunger for validation and compromise is, very literally, bad enough to proclaim the man who melted Iraq to own the libs is now on our side, and good. because he gave michelle obama a piece of candy, and didn't say any of the racial slurs he threw at McCain in the 2000 primary at his funeral.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:33
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theflyingorc posted:I think the argument SW and PJ are having comes down to them both being right - the bigger injustice is that the system allowed Trump to win while losing the popular vote, but the more horrifying root problem with America is that Trump was even able to pull 40% of the vote, let alone the 46.1% he pull that allowed him to win while losing. It's also an indictment of the media. Remember how polls after the election showed a large percentage of Trump voters believed he was the more moderate candidate, or less likely to get us into needless wars, or stuff like that? That was because the the media gave equal time to his vaguest "I'm gonna make things great" comments and to his actual written and consistent proposals.
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Jun 7, 2019 17:34
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Kale posted:Well if that's the way you truly feel then why do I need to pay any attention to any of the things you suggested for me to watch and your overall arguments? Clearly I just "won't get it" because reasons and because I am apparently such and such and wholly incapable of such and such etc. etc. Prester Jane posted:Oh I never expected you to bother educating yourself, I'm just telling you where the information is for when you're (eventually) ready for it. both of you shut the gently caress up
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Jun 7, 2019 17:35
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