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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:For real, I'm honestly baffled at the reaction to the desert parts of the movie, you'd think it was Electroma or loving Gerry or something. John shows up, fights some dudes, talks to Halle Berry, meets a new guy, badass action sequence with dogs and guns, John meets the Elder, then goes right back to New York where he gets into a motorcycle sword fight. What is the god drat problem? The problem is that everything you typed before “meets the elder” was extremely badass and propelled the plot forward without resulting in a complete brick wall to the film’s momentum. Honestly JW2 suffers from this as well, I was surprised on rewatch by how easily I skipped the 15-20 minutes of Laurence Fishburne and the Bowery and it added basically sweet gently caress all to the plot. The scene could have easily been “Halle Berry runs her own Hotel and has access to the high table and the elder because she’s whatever and then Elder is just the dude in the Moroccan castle. You cut 20 minutes of “John Wick: Assassin’s Creed” but the movie just keeps accelerating from dog fights to motorcycles to climactic hotel sequence, is a tighter movie, and leaves far fewer unanswered questions. It’s just one character too many, imo
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Jun 9, 2019 02:55
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Pussy Quipped posted:I think I just expected him to be older. But maybe he’s just an ageless immortal being? Probably a title, passed down. Could be bloodline too I guess?
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Jun 9, 2019 03:25
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Tickled by the idea that this one dude walking around in the desert oversees all the crime in the world and knows who John Wick is and what he’s been doing the last few weeks right away. We missed out on a scene where he’s on the phone like “okay so fill me in... wait, he did what?” But it’s just the plot of Assassin’s Creed anyway
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Jun 9, 2019 03:50
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I was wondering if the missing finger was going to hamper john's fighting
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Jun 9, 2019 05:42
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I think the if the plot went: John Wick fights to leave New York John Wick fights for save haven in Morroco poo poo gets out of hand in NY and Winston has to ask John Wick for help John Wick returns to NY and fucks poo poo up I would've liked it way better. The desert scene being a promise that was immediately broken and of no consequence was a giant buzz kill.
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Jun 9, 2019 05:45
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teagone posted:I enjoyed the Elder scene because it veers the worldbuilding into "videogame" style lore and plays it serious. I love it. It's totally absurd that the one guy above the High Table is just out there in the middle of the desert, and then when we meet him, he goes on a small exposition dump detailing the Persian/Syrian origin of assassins lol. It owns.
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Jun 9, 2019 06:31
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I found the Elder part ok. Might be because I was on an Assasin's Creed kick a few years ago and played the games plus read some wikis so I still have a soft spot for hashashin type stuff. The Halle Berry part with the dogs kicked tremendous amounts of rear end though and talking about it with a friend I saw the movie with, I realized it was because it reminded me of seeing Keanu Reeves in a new light as an action star after JW1.
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Jun 9, 2019 08:56
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achillesforever6 posted:It reminded me a lot of Uncharted 3 which isn't really the worst thing for a movie to do The bit at the Continental at the end reminded me of the Uncharteds, actually, because it was like how at the end of 2 and 3 they throw those guys with armor at you and they take a bunch of shots to kill. The desert parts just reminded me of Assassin's Creed. A lot of the rest of the movie reminded me of Hitman. None of this is necessarily bad.
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Jun 9, 2019 14:57
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In another timeline John Wick would've gotten an Aibo instead of a real dog. He'd have at least avoided a whole lot of heartache.
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Jun 9, 2019 15:20
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IG-88 posted:In another timeline John Wick would've gotten an Aibo instead of a real dog. He'd have at least avoided a whole lot of heartache. 
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Jun 9, 2019 15:57
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IG-88 posted:In another timeline John Wick would've gotten an Aibo instead of a real dog. He'd have at least avoided a whole lot of heartache. Now imagining Keanu saying "You dis my dog you fluff my hog" http://achewood.com/index.php?date=11122004
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Jun 9, 2019 16:25
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Bust Rodd posted:
Except now it's actually important, almost like these movies set things up early
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Jun 9, 2019 18:37
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I’m of the opinion that setting up storylines for movies that may not ever exist is bad filmmaking and enriching a franchise by weakening individual movies is how you get The Matrix: Reloaded and Revolutions. But we live in an era where binge-watching ruined normal cinema consumption so now everything has to be a decade long super epic instead of just like a good way to enjoy 90 minutes.
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Jun 9, 2019 20:53
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Bust Rodd posted:The scene could have easily been “Halle Berry runs her own Hotel and has access to the high table and the elder because she’s whatever and then Elder is just the dude in the Moroccan castle. You cut 20 minutes of “John Wick: Assassin’s Creed” but the movie just keeps accelerating from dog fights to motorcycles to climactic hotel sequence, is a tighter movie, and leaves far fewer unanswered questions. I don't think I agree with this. Halle Berry's character shows us a possible path for John, and a crucial part of that is her relationship with Burratta. He could be like her, be a good soldier, and work his way up. He could even run the Continental. But Berry has had to give up so much, including a familial connection. (As I write this I realize that this sets up John cutting off his ring finger for the Elder.) As Burratta is important, it shows that even though Berry runs her own hotel, she's still in a subordinate position. And as good as Burratta has apparently been, he can still turn on her in an instant, and do so for no reason other than to cruelly assert his power. This is John and Winston (and the table more generally). No matter how far he succeeds by their rules, he will always be dominated.
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Jun 9, 2019 23:30
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Just got back from seeing it, holy poo poo what a ride. For my part it was quite a bit better than (the still very good) part 2, and the best parts meet or even surpass the quality of part 1. I really like the confidence with which they're now fully leaning into the series' aesthetic and setting. Aside from the great action, I was occasionally struck by just how good certain shots looked, and how well the soundtrack worked together with it. Towards the finale I actually got slight Shadowrun vibes from the combination, thought that might just be me being a goon. As for the desert scene, in retrospect it's actually sort of growing on me. The series has been steeped in mythological and religious themes and language especially since the second part, and that meeting was basically a continuation of those themes. To Wick, the entire system he operates in is essentially god-given. The Chamber, with all its rules and offices, is its church. While Wick may be willing to kill some of its members, or break some of its rules, the system as a whole remains eternal and implacable. So when he found himself at the end of his rope, it did not even occur to him to go outside the system. No, instead he merely tries to circumvent the "church" and instead speak to "god" directly. From that perspective, it does feel appropriate that the meeting feels very detached from the world and even rather surreal. And of course it happens in a desert  That also fits quite nicely with the finale. Wick finally defies god for good, falls from grace, and finds himself in hell. And who would be there but Laurence Fishburne, reigning it from an actual throne.
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Jun 10, 2019 15:28
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Perestroika posted:Just got back from seeing it, holy poo poo what a ride. For my part it was quite a bit better than (the still very good) part 2, and the best parts meet or even surpass the quality of part 1. I really like the confidence with which they're now fully leaning into the series' aesthetic and setting. Aside from the great action, I was occasionally struck by just how good certain shots looked, and how well the soundtrack worked together with it. Towards the finale I actually got slight Shadowrun vibes from the combination, thought that might just be me being a goon. Honestly, as much as we love to gush over Keanu(and for good reason) and the action choreography, it's the visual style that keeps me coming back to these movies again and again. It's very very hard to find that kind of visual flair in action movies, especially with the typical blockbusters we're getting from the various comic book franchises.
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Jun 10, 2019 15:34
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John Wick tickles the same part of my brain that all those stick figure Kung Fu memes did for me back when AOL was the only browser anyone used. The artist XiaoXiao had like 8-9 of these and they got progressively crazier and higher quality until he started making basically a short action movie with stick figures and it’s still more or less the standard to which I hold basic combat cinematography. HOLY poo poo I FOUND ALL OF THEM ON YOUTUBE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eplAQ3fEr8M Time stamps in description because 4 & 6 are bad, watch 3 and skip to 7 if you just want the good stuff. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 17:06
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Pirate Radar posted:Tickled by the idea that this one dude walking around in the desert oversees all the crime in the world and knows who John Wick is and what he’s been doing the last few weeks right away. We missed out on a scene where he’s on the phone like “okay so fill me in... wait, he did what?” Assassin’s Creed (from what I can tell, I’ve never played them but did see the movie) is just sewn together bits from traditional conspiracy theory mythology with most of the genuine weirdness replaced by melodrama and a self referential framing story. Check out Foucalt’s Pendulum and The Prague Cemetary for Umberto Eco riffing on the same ideas while also providing some of the history of their development (mixed liberally with total bs, naturally)
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Jun 10, 2019 18:00
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Bust Rodd posted:John Wick tickles the same part of my brain that all those stick figure Kung Fu memes did for me back when AOL was the only browser anyone used. Oh man, I forgot about these. He got pretty good with them.
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Jun 10, 2019 20:49
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For me the issue with the desert dude is that his and entourage's design, at least to my untrained eyes, was basically just Traditional Bedouin Stuff, whereas the rest of the John Wick-Verse has slightly skewed past/present looks that help sell the fantasy.
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Jun 10, 2019 21:58
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I watched Microsoft's E3 press conference (which Keanu appeared at and was ridiculously charming as usual), rewatched John Wick 2 for the first time since it came out, and went to see John Wick 3 all in a span of about 24 hours. Because my body cannot handle such a sustained force of pure goodness I am now sick as a dog. Seeing them literally an hour apart I would have to say I like 2 slightly more, but that's primarily because the final fight in the glass room with Mark Dacascos and Mad Dog went on a little too long and felt like too obvious a callback to the museum scene from 2. As much as I like having a story be wrapped up before it gets tired I'm still loving down as hell for 4 because honestly the "story" in these movies is so paper thin and is just a really obvious excuse to build a cool world around some killer action that I'm fine with it continuing.
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Jun 11, 2019 00:02
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Basebf555 posted:Honestly, as much as we love to gush over Keanu(and for good reason) and the action choreography, it's the visual style that keeps me coming back to these movies again and again. It's very very hard to find that kind of visual flair in action movies, especially with the typical blockbusters we're getting from the various comic book franchises. It's an interesting contrast with something like 'Revenger' on Netflix. It's another high action premise made largely by a stunt team (the lead is some Korean stuntman who's been around forever) and while the casts physical efforts are amazing, the film making just isn't there. There's a lack of interesting compositions or cuts, but even basic things like the 180 degree rule and other versions of spacial editing aren't really respected. porfiria posted:For me the issue with the desert dude is that his and entourage's design, at least to my untrained eyes, was basically just Traditional Bedouin Stuff, whereas the rest of the John Wick-Verse has slightly skewed past/present looks that help sell the fantasy. That's kind of the thing. Everything else is from a strange hyperreality, while the stuff in Morocco feels uncreative. I think it would have worked if they went crazier with it.
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Jun 11, 2019 00:21
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Isn’t one of the directors of Wick 1 directing the Hobbs & Shaw movie? I’m not too hot on that because it looks belly laugh dumb.
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Jun 11, 2019 02:04
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Violator posted:Isn’t one of the directors of Wick 1 directing the Hobbs & Shaw movie? I’m not too hot on that because it looks belly laugh dumb. I saw JW3 the Tuesday morning after release and the theatre was packed. I was between an older couple and a couple my age but it was a great recliner seat. I had resigned to not laugh too loudly or go “Awwww dog no way NO WAY” like I always do but when the trailer for Hobbs & Shaw played and you watch The Rock DRAG A HELICOPTER TO THE GROUND WITH A TOW CHAIN I was inconsolable and just let out a knee jerk “A HA HA HAH NO WAY” and then a single beat and then the entire theatre just unloaded and we were still laughing halfway through that crazy bad trailer for the Morgan Freeman political thriller. Like they literally dress up like Pacific Islander warrior and throw spears at drug dealers. In 2019. I cannot begin to imagine the writer’s room on this.
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Jun 11, 2019 03:23
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Bust Rodd posted:Like they literally dress up like Pacific Islander warrior and throw spears at drug dealers. In 2019. I cannot begin to imagine the writer’s room on this. It’s The Rock and a crew of other actors of Polynesian descent doing a haka and then loving some dudes up. They’re having a great time and it looks hilarious.
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Jun 11, 2019 10:22
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The one thing I can appreciate about the desert scene and the Elder is that it adds to the wider theme of the High Table just being rich people giving themselves fancy titles, as rich people are wont to do. Earlier in the thread the Elder was called a Sultan, and that’s pretty much just what he is. But because rich people can’t ever have enough, he’s gotta call himself the Elder and move around the desert in a tent because gently caress You, I Can. I love how he just pockets Wick’s finger, it’s such a fun little gesture telling us that he 1) does not have anything mystical going on, like, he’s not consuming the finger or anything like that, and 2) he doesn’t give a poo poo if Wick’s bloody finger ruins his outfit, he’s got fifty of them stashed away in another tent. In that regard, the Elder reminded me a lot of Santino, who waxed poetically about art and got to eat a bullet for all his delusions of grandeur. I liked the Casablanca bits but would have preferred it if the action stayed in New York or the US. The High Table might be a world-spanning network, but John Wick venturing into deserts and whatnot felt too much like James Bond. On the other hand, it already felt like Wick killed everybody worth killing in New York in JW1 and 2. In fact, I kept asking myself how there were any assassins left there at the start of JW3. Like, did only the chumps answer the call in JW2 because the bounty was so low? Or are only the chumps left to answer the call in JW3 because all the others are dead?
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Jun 11, 2019 13:05
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wrt your last point: Going after John Wick for a decent bounty, while he still has people/allies within the system is a suicide mission. Going after John Wick for a massive bounty, knowing he is out of the system and any of his allies would be at best very hesitant to help him; while knowing a lot of people will be there to kill/distract him is another thing.
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Jun 11, 2019 13:17
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Yea I think we can assume that the only ones jumping at that 7 million bounty were the overly ambitious amateurs like Perkins. The combination of doubling the bounty and then the excommunicato would've made it much more tempting for the top level people to take the chance that maybe Wick isn't quite what he used to be.
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Jun 11, 2019 14:33
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Grendels Dad posted:The one thing I can appreciate about the desert scene and the Elder is that it adds to the wider theme of the High Table just being rich people giving themselves fancy titles, as rich people are wont to do. Earlier in the thread the Elder was called a Sultan, and that’s pretty much just what he is. But because rich people can’t ever have enough, he’s gotta call himself the Elder and move around the desert in a tent because gently caress You, I Can. I love how he just pockets Wick’s finger, it’s such a fun little gesture telling us that he 1) does not have anything mystical going on, like, he’s not consuming the finger or anything like that, and 2) he doesn’t give a poo poo if Wick’s bloody finger ruins his outfit, he’s got fifty of them stashed away in another tent. Wick's finger stays on the table he cut it off on. He pocketed his ring. I got the feeling he was like "niiiiiice I got Wicks ring this will make a fine addition to my collection"
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Jun 11, 2019 16:17
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Bust Rodd posted:Like they literally dress up like Pacific Islander warrior and throw spears at drug dealers. In 2019. I cannot begin to imagine the writer’s room on this. Small world: it's directed by the guy who co-directed John Wick.
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Jun 11, 2019 16:32
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I liked Morocco over all but I kinda zoned out during the big fight. Winston and John are in on it. Neither of them love the Table. Or, at least, Winston pulled a risky move and knew John would probably survive. No way he'd turn on a friend like that.
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Jun 11, 2019 21:22
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Inzombiac posted:I liked Morocco over all but I kinda zoned out during the big fight. I'm kinda surprised there's even debate about that, it seemed very obvious to me just based on the way it all went down and Winston's facial expressions afterwards when talking to the Adjudicator.
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Jun 11, 2019 21:26
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I had a bad theater experience. It was one of those small rooms with a bunch of recliners, 40 people max. There was a lady in the front who would not stop talking in that way older people get when they've had a lifetime of alcoholism. No filter or volume control and she read all text on screen as if it were a question but drat if she wasn't having a blast.
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Jun 11, 2019 21:33
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Basebf555 posted:I'm kinda surprised there's even debate about that, it seemed very obvious to me just based on the way it all went down and Winston's facial expressions afterwards when talking to the Adjudicator. The marker from the end of 2 is from Winston to John right? So that could be why he wanted that whole show of power thing. So that he has High Table rules grounds to help the people overthrow the system.
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Jun 11, 2019 22:17
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Inzombiac posted:I had a bad theater experience. It was one of those small rooms with a bunch of recliners, 40 people max. She'd have to be pretty old for me not to tell her to be quiet. Is that not an okay thing to do? As far as John being in on it I'm not sure. I thought that he was but then again he agrees he's pretty pissed off about the whole situation when he meets up with the Bowery King again. Chacmool fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 00:30
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Yeah I get the argument over whether John was in on it but I don’t understand how people debate whether Winston intended to kill him. Like Charon turns to him and goes “well played, sir” and then he’s a sarcastic gently caress with the Adjudicator about it.
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Jun 12, 2019 05:37
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Yeah it's damned clear Winston did what he could to not kill Wick. The shots spark off opposite lapels even.
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Jun 12, 2019 09:01
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I always find it amusing when people in these sorts of stories try to rile up the main character because it always backfires. The high-table will probably make certain to take very good care of John's friends and dog from now on because they know that if anything happens to them, my god he will be unstoppable. It's like that bizarre moment in the last Tomb Raider game, where the bad guy Lies about killing Jonah for no reason and Lara blows up an oil refinery. You had to see that coming, surely? Why did you lie about it, it only hurt you!"
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Jun 13, 2019 04:48
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BioEnchanted posted:I always find it amusing when people in these sorts of stories try to rile up the main character because it always backfires. The high-table will probably make certain to take very good care of John's friends and dog from now on because they know that if anything happens to them, my god he will be unstoppable. It's like that bizarre moment in the last Tomb Raider game, where the bad guy Lies about killing Jonah for no reason and Lara blows up an oil refinery. You had to see that coming, surely? Why did you lie about it, it only hurt you!" The Tomb Raider reboot series seemed less to me like Lara Croft: archeologist and more like Lara Croft: chosen of the blood god. I mean hell, there was a section in the first one where she's literally wading through a waist deep pit of blood and skulls. And then she just keeps getting more murderous from there. It's great. 
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Jun 13, 2019 16:16
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Due to the thread's recommendation I watched Scott Adkin's The Debt Collector. It was good, in a Not John Wick kind of way. I had never really noticed Louis Mandylor in anything before and was supremeley weirded out all movie long by how much he and his brother look alike. They should remake the Raid Guys fight with these two in JW4.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:47
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