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I found Fordola unsympathetic even if I respected that she changed her mind in the end. She was well written, I just didn't like her, and I don't think she adds a lot to the possible future support cast which is why they haven't written anything with her. She will probably help the Scions suplex primals until one of them gets her and the RDM doesn't rez, and that will be that.
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Jun 10, 2019 21:39
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I just finished The Burn and I am honestly stoked to finish the rest of the story Will there be new MSQ before ShB or will this be it? Since 4.56 is only like 2 quests
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Jun 10, 2019 21:41
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Nope, it's done until ShB hits. 4.56 is only two quests because it's the end of 4.5, they chop the end off the MSQ for the final update and release it later since it would have been like seven months until we got more story.
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Jun 10, 2019 21:45
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I do feel in general that the lead up toward SHB felt a lot less meaty than that of HW->SB.
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Jun 10, 2019 21:47
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Never gets old standing toe to toe with heavy metal men holding heavy metal weapons and I'm standing there with a book.
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Jun 10, 2019 21:55
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Gorelab posted:I do feel in general that the lead up toward SHB felt a lot less meaty than that of HW->SB. 3.x finally had the payoff with Omega being revealed and activated and that was a huge deal.
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Jun 10, 2019 21:56
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Baelsar's Wall and the fallout was a lot cleaner than this one, where two major plot threads were constantly at odds with each other, culminating in one of them literally interrupting the other anticlimactically
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Jun 10, 2019 21:59
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Gorelab posted:I do feel in general that the lead up toward SHB felt a lot less meaty than that of HW->SB. I kind of wonder what the reaction would have been if they had somehow managed to keep all of the story details about ShB under wraps until it launched. We know where we're headed and we have a good idea of who is leading us there but the WoL doesn't. I can only assume the 5.0 launch quest will tie up the loose ends.
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Jun 10, 2019 21:59
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It's still super lame that we both got rescued and had the until then main conflict end completely off screen but I don't think any of the expansions have had a clean lead in so it's to be expected.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:01
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I liked the lead in to HW since it's bleak without being hopeless. SB is RAAAGH REVOLUTION. ShB feels late to me, like why didn't we explore this on the heels of the Warriors of Darkness. Probably practical reasons why, and we may get those in time.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:09
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So this is my expansion plot reviews. I loved 3.0 because it was a tight well executed story with really only a few main characters. The focus was all on Alphinaud, Estinien, and Ysale. You learned so much about each and they had great arcs. It felt the most satisfying to me because of it's small scale, or it's small scale feeling. 4.0 on the other hand was trying to be this epic grand story that I just...could not give a poo poo about. Zenos is boring until the very end, where he's so psychotically evil it's laughable. As well they tried to focus on the villains to give you motivation rather than the heroes. I feel like I still know nothing about Ala Mhigo or it's people other than they are the proverbial dog that intercepts every kick in the world. The Doma portion worked better because at least Hien is a character, but it's hard not to see that Yotsuyu was at least a little right. I dunno, I felt like her version of Doma was more the true one and it's past was white washed because hey you're hanging out with the nobility now. Essentially not much of Doman society was reckoned with. Yotsuyu and Fordola were the two stand outs that really worked with me emotionally, helped because they are an archetype I am all for every time it shows up, see Cercei Lannister, so Yotsuyu's story carried the rest of the patches for me. The reveal about the nature of the Garlean empire had me rolling my eyes though and made them WAY less interesting, so I was all for that A plot being train wrecked by weird adventures on another world. (Also I really don't care about the plot focusing on the WoL because you are not a character and it's terrible and way prefer when one of the npcs is the real protagonist. Or if they want to write the WoL into the plot, go full Bioware on us, and let us actually be a character.)
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Jun 10, 2019 22:09
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DizzyBum posted:3.x finally had the payoff with Omega being revealed and activated and that was a huge deal. Yeah it was. Remember that Omega first got name dropped way back in patch 2.2, so finally seeing it in action was long awaited. I think part of why the end of SB feels dissatisfying is that they built up a sense of immediacy and then say "check back next expansion to see what happens!". For both ARR and HW, there's a major climax followed by a clear cooling off point that you can fit a several month wait into so people have time to digest and hype themselves up for the next arc. But right now it's like the world's longest pregnant pause as Our Hero, world-famous Doer of Things, waits on a phone call as the world burns. Also not pleased with the forced loss to flesh puppet Zenos plus the poor to non-existent handling of why he didn't just straight up kill you when he had the chance and clearly wanted to.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:11
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Yeah, all the expansions have been kind of just set-up in the x.5 patch. In 3.4 they were still setting up Shadow Bringers with the Warriors of Darkness and then in 3.5 all the poo poo with Ilberd goes down and we move into Storm Blood. All the expansions seem to get set up like one expansion in advance. During 2.x we had the Doman refugees, 3.x had the Warriors of Darkness, I imagine that the next expansion will probably actually be to do with Garlemald.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:14
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Veotax posted:Yeah, all the expansions have been kind of just set-up in the x.5 patch. In 3.4 they were still setting up Shadow Bringers with the Warriors of Darkness and then in 3.5 all the poo poo with Ilberd goes down and we move into Storm Blood. Good observation
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Jun 10, 2019 22:28
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 Only took about 4 years but I'm almost there. Too bad the mount is ugly.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:29
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Thundarr posted:Yeah it was. Remember that Omega first got name dropped way back in patch 2.2, so finally seeing it in action was long awaited. I would not be shocked if someone else explicitly cites Ilberd in order to defend some kind of outrageous plan. Hell, probably Urianger.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:29
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Other lead ins have had problems, but I do think this one is jarring because the war with Garlemald doesn't feel like something you can put on hold. You don't even deliver a decisive strike or anything, it just kinda stops for no reason. They really build up at the beginning of the Ghimlyt Dark that it's do or die time and you can really only hope to stall. Then it just ends for no reason and they flat out tell us "oh it's probably fine take your time doing whatever." It's just abrupt.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:30
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Veev posted:Other lead ins have had problems, but I do think this one is jarring because the war with Garlemald doesn't feel like something you can put on hold. You don't even deliver a decisive strike or anything, it just kinda stops for no reason. They really build up at the beginning of the Ghimlyt Dark that it's do or die time and you can really only hope to stall. Then it just ends for no reason and they flat out tell us "oh it's probably fine take your time doing whatever." It's just abrupt. Garlemald will be like "Well, okay, rear end in a top hat" and release the Black Rose, which will cause mass mayhem and slaughter along with that "calamity of light" they alluded to. Graha Tia will pull us into the First, possibly *after* the Calamity actually happens and blows the poo poo out of Hyaedalyn.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:40
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Thundarr posted:Also not pleased with the forced loss to flesh puppet Zenos plus the poor to non-existent handling of why he didn't just straight up kill you when he had the chance and clearly wanted to. Because Zenos' entire character is the developers wanking in front of you about how unbelievably awesome and badass and edgy he is. Forcing the WoL to eat a loss or two to learn some humility and some life lessons before the rematch? Sure, that's classic storytelling. Repeatedly jobbing to the same guy because beating him would end the plot too quickly? That's where I start having second thoughts about the quality of the writing. As a goon once put it: players are often very happy with a railroad if the view is nice and the destination is awesome, and you stop every now and then to stretch your legs. I do not think SB was that kind of railroad.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:56
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your shtick is tired
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Jun 10, 2019 22:57
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Zenos is just an MMO Raider/ Top Tier PVPer who was just bored until you came along though. His whole thing about "wanting a real challenge" makes sense
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Jun 10, 2019 23:00
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Veotax posted:Yeah, all the expansions have been kind of just set-up in the x.5 patch. In 3.4 they were still setting up Shadow Bringers with the Warriors of Darkness and then in 3.5 all the poo poo with Ilberd goes down and we move into Storm Blood. If your assumption is right, then Gaius and his Ascian hunting is just a tease, and his big story arc will be the next expansion. Which may or may not lead into Garlemald.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:03
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Fighting Zenos was a pretty good "oh poo poo" moment imo. The fact that FFxiv doesn't really do a whole lot of the forced loss fights like WoW did means that when they actually do it, it had actual impact to me.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:06
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Veev posted:Other lead ins have had problems, but I do think this one is jarring because the war with Garlemald doesn't feel like something you can put on hold. You don't even deliver a decisive strike or anything, it just kinda stops for no reason. They really build up at the beginning of the Ghimlyt Dark that it's do or die time and you can really only hope to stall. Then it just ends for no reason and they flat out tell us "oh it's probably fine take your time doing whatever." It's just abrupt. eh the last fight with zenos proved that you have become at best unreliable and at worst a liability so you have to go take care of yourself before you can get back to kicking garlean rear end. I fully expect to come back to eorzea with everything gone tits up in the wol’s absence
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Jun 10, 2019 23:07
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UHD posted:eh I'm sure our friend Zenos will hold the fort while we're gone. Curveball twist, a whole sidestory sidequest arc where we just role-play as Zenos loving things up
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Jun 10, 2019 23:10
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Veev posted:Other lead ins have had problems, but I do think this one is jarring because the war with Garlemald doesn't feel like something you can put on hold. You don't even deliver a decisive strike or anything, it just kinda stops for no reason. They really build up at the beginning of the Ghimlyt Dark that it's do or die time and you can really only hope to stall. Then it just ends for no reason and they flat out tell us "oh it's probably fine take your time doing whatever." It's just abrupt. Our Elezen boyfriend does make a good point in that we're the god killing machine, not a frontline soldier. The fact that Crystalhands is loving with our ability to get poo poo done also probably has the leaders thinking maybe we've been pushed too hard. There's no guarantee we'd be Deus Ex Dragoonia'd again the next time meat puppet Zenos comes a-knockin'. We have a pause now as well because didn't Garlemald retreat over our disinfo campaign in the capital? We've explicitly been given a bit of breathing room. I still think, from a character perspective, we have no way of knowing whether Tataru's free association theory about where are friends are has any merit but in light of nothing else going on, and being explicitly told to leave the war to the professionals, we might as well let the B-Scions help look for this beacon thing. Nessus posted:Here is my theory on what they will do, and which they probably just delayed the same way it was months of RL time between Baelsar's Wall and the start of Stormblood. The only issue I see with this is classic MMO-itis. The same as the end of the Crystal Braves storyline. The rest of the world has to remain intact because from a gameplay perspective we need to be able to freely travel between the First and the Source. I'm sure they'll have some story beats on the Source while we're bringing nightfall back to the other dimension but I would anticipate the next calamity back home won't come until the end of ShB.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:10
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Is it really a Disinfo Campaign when its true? 
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Jun 10, 2019 23:13
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The Zenos beating us while leveling just bothered me in how it was executed, not necessarily that he beat us. Because the trials clearly have a mechanical checklist of poo poo you have to do to advance the cutscene, when personally, I'd have prefered they just, idk, plop down him from the Ala Mhigo dungeon and he's a level 70 mob when we're level 6-whatever, and when you die you die and the cutscene hits. That way it'd feel like he beat us because he's stronger instead of we arbitrarily easily clear some mechanics and then he beats us.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:21
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Is it really a Disinfo Campaign when its true? Yeah, I thought about that. Maybe propaganda campaign would be a better choice of words?
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Jun 10, 2019 23:22
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hobbesmaster posted:But popedad is a cooler fight than anything in Stormblood. Popefight might be the coolest fight in the game so far
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Jun 10, 2019 23:29
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Leofish posted:The only issue I see with this is classic MMO-itis. The same as the end of the Crystal Braves storyline. The rest of the world has to remain intact because from a gameplay perspective we need to be able to freely travel between the First and the Source. I'm sure they'll have some story beats on the Source while we're bringing nightfall back to the other dimension but I would anticipate the next calamity back home won't come until the end of ShB. Set the "Black Rose kills everyone" event a few weeks in the future, deliberately. Graha Tia comes and collects you from the howling wasteland where you're staggering around being nagged by a gremlin, probably before you get murked by Steppies Angel, and can shunt you back to "T-minus-a-couple-of-weeks" with the bullshit power of the Crystal Tower. Any marketboard/side quests/MSQ legs in the Source happen in the period he can throw you back to. One possible anchor point/justification would be that big blue orb Matoya has, especially since there are strong indications that Matoya will buy it in Shadowbringers.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:44
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Leofish posted:Our Elezen boyfriend does make a good point in that we're the god killing machine, not a frontline soldier. The fact that Crystalhands is loving with our ability to get poo poo done also probably has the leaders thinking maybe we've been pushed too hard. There's no guarantee we'd be Deus Ex Dragoonia'd again the next time meat puppet Zenos comes a-knockin'. This all happens pretty much off screen and doesn't really line-up with the stakes we were fighting for up to that point is my problem. They make a big point of us being super important to the battle to the point that we have a whole duty just waiting for us to get there, but then we just lose and it doesn't matter because stuff that has been off screen apparently was extremely effective it's just no one told us until now. If we had crippled "Zenos" before collapsing and getting saved or had bought time for some sabotage or something more directly connected to what we are actively doing it would still feel a bit rushed but I'd like it better. Now it feels like everything just conveniently stops after being told that this is the Big One.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:51
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WoL is an anti-Primal device not a super powerful god which is why I can so easily get zapped to death by jellyfish but can also slay, like, Ifrit.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:58
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Nessus posted:I think this can probably be covered somewhat with some set dressing. I explain thus: Not a bad theory. It would make that part of the trailer make sense, too. Veev posted:This all happens pretty much off screen and doesn't really line-up with the stakes we were fighting for up to that point is my problem. They make a big point of us being super important to the battle to the point that we have a whole duty just waiting for us to get there, but then we just lose and it doesn't matter because stuff that has been off screen apparently was extremely effective it's just no one told us until now. If we had crippled "Zenos" before collapsing and getting saved or had bought time for some sabotage or something more directly connected to what we are actively doing it would still feel a bit rushed but I'd like it better. Now it feels like everything just conveniently stops after being told that this is the Big One. I can see your point, yeah. The last patch wasn't too good for player agency. Hopefully the 5.0 storyline is better for that kind of stuff.
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Jun 11, 2019 00:08
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The fact the WoL is stumbling around looking like a low level dude is kind of the weird part of that trailer. I get that its a callback to the original 1.0 trailer, but how does it fit into ShB, especially with what the gremlin says. Makes it sound like he's talking to a First version of the WoL, but presumably a First version of us doesn't exist because the original Warriors of Darkness were the big heroes of that shard.
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Jun 11, 2019 00:11
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The Goblet is an awfully silly place.  
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Jun 11, 2019 00:12
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Galaga Galaxian posted:The fact the WoL is stumbling around looking like a low level dude is kind of the weird part of that trailer. I get that its a callback to the original 1.0 trailer, but how does it fit into ShB, especially with what the gremlin says. You have to restart at level 1 in ShB
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Jun 11, 2019 00:12
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Leal posted:You have to restart at level 1 in ShB all zones in the first use eureka leveling where you have to collect Darkness Experience
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Jun 11, 2019 00:13
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Eimi posted:. I dunno, I felt like her version of Doma was more the true one and it's past was white washed because hey you're hanging out with the nobility now. Essentially not much of Doman society was reckoned with. The Doman refugees are introduced in like patch 2.1. There are a lot of quests dealing with them, including some side quests, they're just rather spread out. The Doman reconstruction quests are also there.
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Jun 11, 2019 00:24
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Magil Zeal posted:The Doman refugees are introduced in like patch 2.1. There are a lot of quests dealing with them, including some side quests, they're just rather spread out. The Doman reconstruction quests are also there. I thought Stormblood also made it pretty clear that Doman society as such is gone, and Doma will have to be rebuilt from the ground up. That's the whole thematic point of Hien being willing to flood Doma Castle for a better chance at victory. Doma as it was is no more. What Doma will be in the future is up to them. FF14 really likes villains who are stuck in the past and unable to see through their own pain. The story just about never tries to justify or rationalize the sins and faults and evils of the past, but FF14 is pretty insistent about the importance of trying to build a better future no matter how much the past hurts.
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Jun 11, 2019 00:32
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