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Oxxidation posted:he's not a fit for his chosen medium
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Jun 14, 2019 18:19
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that ending, chris really knocked Kotor 2 out the park there
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Jun 14, 2019 18:20
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Accordion Man posted:KOTOR 2 tied RPG mechanics into its story, namely when it comes to the true powers of the Exile.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:21
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Is Avellone the guy who recently said nothing he's ever written is political in any way and shamed anyone who 'put politics' into videogames?
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Jun 14, 2019 18:22
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corn in the bible posted:that ending, chris really knocked Kotor 2 out the park there The Restoration Mod at least fixes the ending to at least give some decent closure.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:23
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Endorph posted:honestly kotor 2 always had a massive plot/gameplay disconnect to me because the story was all about how both extremes of the force were stupid but the game didn't reward you at all for staying neutral and if anything massively punished you for it because you could only give your party members forcepowers by going super hard one way or the other You can't access the advanced prestige classes if you are neutral either
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Jun 14, 2019 18:25
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Endorph posted:honestly kotor 2 always had a massive plot/gameplay disconnect to me because the story was all about how both extremes of the force were stupid but the game didn't reward you at all for staying neutral and if anything massively punished you for it because you could only give your party members forcepowers by going super hard one way or the other The point was more that the Force itself is bad because it forces you into thay dichotomy by rewarding you for extreme behavior. The more muddled part was being able to train a bunch of companions to be force users and how you could solve everything with force lightning. Also not being able to go along with Kreia's plan
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Jun 14, 2019 18:25
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al-azad posted:I ended the game with no magic much higher than level 4 so the damage output was negligible. Welp, looks like we're different enough that comparisons won't make much sense. I like ARPGs for the joy of killing poo poo mostly, so what others see as grinding was just more added fun. That leads to unfair things like one player having level 4 in magic at best, and another one is insane enough to bring all magic up to level 9 until he has seen all the special max level animations. Also of course, all weapons must be maxed! And then that rear end in a top hat has the gall to be disappointed when all bosses are vaporized in under 5 minutes.  Edit: I had the guides for Lufia II, Terranigma, Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore. It was nice, sure, but I felt a bit coddled by this.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:26
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Is Avellone the guy who recently said nothing he's ever written is political in any way and shamed anyone who 'put politics' into videogames? Yes
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Jun 14, 2019 18:26
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Zore posted:The point was more that the Force itself is bad because it forces you into thay dichotomy by rewarding you for extreme behavior.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:27
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Endorph posted:In that case shouldn't' there have been dialogue and options for a full 'forceless' playthrough? I mean of course Lucas Arts wouldn't have let them get away with that considering 'be a jedi!!' is the marketing push for almost every star wars game ever made, but still, that doesn't change that the game would've had a clearer gameplay/plot connection with that as an option.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:28
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I mean, yeah, but that doesn't change the game we got having that kind of disconnect.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:31
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Endorph posted:In that case shouldn't' there have been dialogue and options for a full 'forceless' playthrough? I mean of course Lucas Arts wouldn't have let them get away with that considering 'be a jedi!!' is the marketing push for almost every star wars game ever made, but still, that doesn't change that the game would've had a clearer gameplay/plot connection with that as an option. Oh absolutely. I meant more specifically the game criticizes the player and the Force for blindly rewarding anything light side/dark side without thinking about any further implications. The lack of a 'gently caress the Force, I'm with Kreia' route means all the criticism goes nowhere and exists to 'make you think'
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Jun 14, 2019 18:36
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also it's slightly weird that the first instance of criticism is kreia responding to you giving money to a homeless guy and saying "you idiot. you fool. you absolute loving dumbass. you hosed up. you should have known this was a stupid thing"
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Jun 14, 2019 18:39
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The Colonel posted:also it's slightly weird that the first instance of criticism is kreia responding to you giving money to a homeless guy and saying "you idiot. you fool. you absolute loving dumbass. you hosed up. you should have known this was a stupid thing" That scene really made me think.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:39
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Nar Shadda is just strangely badly written compared to the rest of the game in general really. People poo poo on Peragus but Nar Shadda was the worst part of the game for me. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jun 14, 2019 |
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Jun 14, 2019 18:40
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it's also funny because new vegas is like, the complete opposite of that, with stuff like the energy tower sidequest treating helping out freeside or at least equally distributing power across the mojave as a perfectly sensible option. a lot of that is probably because a lot of new vegas was written by people other than chris avellone, but it's still a funny contrast
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Jun 14, 2019 18:43
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Every Bioware game has some Libertarian dickhole that rips on you for helping people because they have to help themselves or whatever. I'm playing Jade Empire and I never let that Sagacious guy in my party because every interjection is "You shouldn't have said 'bless you' when that dude sneezed, now he's a burder on the state and will be forever!"
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Jun 14, 2019 18:44
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The Colonel posted:it's also funny because new vegas is like, the complete opposite of that, with stuff like the energy tower sidequest treating helping out freeside or at least equally distributing power across the mojave as a perfectly sensible option. a lot of that is probably because a lot of new vegas was written by people other than chris avellone, but it's still a funny contrast I don't think you are supposed to treat Kreia as necessarily being right though. Also in that beggar convo Kreia complains at you no matter what you choose
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Jun 14, 2019 18:44
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The Colonel posted:it's also funny because new vegas is like, the complete opposite of that, with stuff like the energy tower sidequest treating helping out freeside or at least equally distributing power across the mojave as a perfectly sensible option. a lot of that is probably because a lot of new vegas was written by people other than chris avellone, but it's still a funny contrast So as said Nar Shadda is a mess.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:45
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al-azad posted:Every Bioware game has some Libertarian dickhole that rips on you for helping people because they have to help themselves or whatever. I'm playing Jade Empire and I never let that Sagacious guy in my party because every interjection is "You shouldn't have said 'bless you' when that dude sneezed, now he's a burder on the state and will be forever!" Morrigan I just want the quest rewards stop making fun of me
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Jun 14, 2019 18:48
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I like KOTOR 2 quite a bit but Nar Shadda is not very good on replays.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:49
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Zore posted:Oh absolutely. I meant more specifically the game criticizes the player and the Force for blindly rewarding anything light side/dark side without thinking about any further implications. The lack of a 'gently caress the Force, I'm with Kreia' route means all the criticism goes nowhere and exists to 'make you think' i never actually played the game, but as i understand it a "siding with kreia" option wouldn't make sense anyway her loathing of the force is just part of a larger rejection of moral fundamentalism, so she's constantly playing ideological hotfoot with the player character, criticizing everything they do so that they're never comfortable accepting any one option as self-obviously right or wrong. kreia has no "side" to join, and she would probably call the exile an idiot for trying
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Jun 14, 2019 18:49
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also if you just choose 'mildly polite' options you end up 75% towards lightside very quickly and then kreia gives you the 'i am worried...about you...' talk as if youve totally bought into the jedi's monk teachingsThe Colonel posted:also it's slightly weird that the first instance of criticism is kreia responding to you giving money to a homeless guy and saying "you idiot. you fool. you absolute loving dumbass. you hosed up. you should have known this was a stupid thing" i interpreted kreia as like. she doesnt really care what you do as long as you listen to her so she will use whatever chance she can to try to get you to see her as 'wise,' even potentially manipulating things so that the pc will fail and she can say 'SHOULDVE LISTENED TO ME' but that was a weird place to do it because it's just the most innocuous action and there are surely other parts of the game where the lesson she tries to impart there could have been better applied
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Jun 14, 2019 18:54
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Oxxidation posted:i never actually played the game, but as i understand it a "siding with kreia" option wouldn't make sense anyway Of course Old Republic just made the True Sith just like bog standard Sith.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:57
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Oxxidation posted:i never actually played the game, but as i understand it a "siding with kreia" option wouldn't make sense anyway Her rejection of the Force is a personal thing, not really a rejection of moral fundamentalism. She feels wronged after spending her life exploring both sides of the Force and ultimately concluding it is empty and devoid of meaning. She latches onto the player because they got turned into a 'hole' in the Force, a psychic lamprey that siphons it from everyone around them, and ultimately hopes to use them to ascend beyond the Force's weird Jedi/Sith dichotomy to face some super enemy that's coming. She also has a whole bunch of personal hangups because she's always been a teacher of some kind and ultimately can't stop trying to teach the player character.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:58
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Kreia is great because she is completely right but ultimately the only reason she is doing anything is for extremely petty reasons. A bitter old women lashing out for the sleights she has received She is definitely one of the better video game villians The one thing I don’t like is making Revan Space Jesus CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 14, 2019 |
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Jun 14, 2019 19:56
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Andrast posted:I don't think you are supposed to treat Kreia as necessarily being right though.
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Jun 14, 2019 20:15
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CharlestheHammer posted:The one thing I don’t like is making Revan Space Jesus I feel like that's inevitable in any sort of sequel where the player character from the first game isn't the player character this time around. Either they're evil and you're working to undo what they did (optionally, they come around to your side or you come around to theirs and it becomes a team up), they're Superjesus and basically legendary (doesn't preclude the former though), or they might as well not even exist outside of some throwaway fanservice dialogue. Or they just get shoved into the 'mentor' closet.
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Jun 14, 2019 20:18
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GulagDolls posted:also if you just choose 'mildly polite' options you end up 75% towards lightside very quickly and then kreia gives you the 'i am worried...about you...' talk as if youve totally bought into the jedi's monk teachings
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Jun 14, 2019 20:33
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Levantine posted:It has been 20 some years since I last played SD3 - I chose a team of Duran/Riesz/Hawk. For promotions, do I want to send Duran towards Light for healing or am I fine without it? I remember Saint Saber being good in the end of the game but his dark path can give him elemental/moon/leaf sabers. I am thinking Light for Riesz for buffs and dark for Hawk (of course). you definitely want some kind of healer. duran is the way to go. al-azad posted:lunar boost is the only way to damage late game bosses without constantly charging attacks and MP absorb is necessary in the later game when a pathetic 4 item slots can't cover all the mp you'll need. imo charging to 1 isn't a chore at all, any charge will max out your hit rate. alternatively hit their weak point with cheap magic, the only boss you can't clean out by doing this is Dark Lich since he's only vulnerable to a spell that costs 8MP
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Jun 14, 2019 20:50
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Can I collect all 108 characters and get the good ending in suikoden 2 if I don't do clive's timed quest?
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Jun 14, 2019 20:59
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Kingtheninja posted:Can I collect all 108 characters and get the good ending in suikoden 2 if I don't do clive's timed quest? Yeah.
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Jun 14, 2019 21:01
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just youtube clive’s quest
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Jun 14, 2019 21:08
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Just recruiting Clive is enough, the timed quest isn't needed for the good ending.
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Jun 14, 2019 21:13
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Mr E posted:Yeah going on those forums pretty much finished souring me on him. I hated her character on my first playtrough. On a second one her dialogue (and Durances) made a lot more sense, but they still kinda suck. The part where everyone in your party thinks shes just some random peasant woman hanging around is cool tho
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Jun 15, 2019 00:08
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Endorph posted:did he write mask of the betrayer because that game had some good gameplay/plot integration the lp is worth reading just for the part where it goes over the many horrible ways you can manipulate kaelyn as an evil character its a very rare instance of a loyalty meter thing that makes sense because you are not just telling her what she wants to hear for friendship points, you are doing it for the express purpose of manipulating her and the game is aware of this babypolis fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 00:12
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Kreia is cool cause she's mostly right but she's also an extremely angry and tired old woman so her mostly interesting philosophy on the hosed up moral failings of either jedi order is tempered with her need to be loving exasperated at all points. What I'm sayign is RPGs need more annoyed grandmas as party members.
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Jun 15, 2019 01:51
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Kreia is cool cause she's mostly right but she's also an extremely angry and tired old woman so her mostly interesting philosophy on the hosed up moral failings of either jedi order is tempered with her need to be loving exasperated at all points. She's not that old is she? Like her daughter is what, 25ish?
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Jun 15, 2019 02:13
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Zore posted:She's not that old is she? Like him or not Avellone does make some badass grandma villains. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 02:18
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