TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

«‹›1229 »

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

We could definitely do better in terms of keeping out shitlords. But also it would be inevitably pretty incestuous. Would it be less incestuous than the Ennies? Maybe, but also maybe not.

# ? Jun 16, 2019 22:58

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 21:52

Rand Brittain: Mar 25, 2013; "Go on until you're stopped."

Just think of it as a FATAL & Friends review of 2018.

# ? Jun 16, 2019 23:36

Arthil: Feb 17, 2012; A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Rand Brittain posted:

Wait, there are PDFs? What?

I think they mean not only the Basic Rules stuff, but also DnDBeyond. Not technically normal PDF format, yeah. But the app version of the books is honestly more readable than a PDF.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 01:01

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

It'll never work because, let's face it: we can never live up to the quality and rigor of Enworld's judging process.

It's just not possible.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 01:19

kingcom: Jun 23, 2012

Arthil posted:

I think they mean not only the Basic Rules stuff, but also DnDBeyond. Not technically normal PDF format, yeah. But the app version of the books is honestly more readable than a PDF.

Real talk, I've found the :files: (5etools) a lot easier to read and quicker to navigate than dndbeyond. DnDBeyond is visually a lot better but it really isn't good for this just trying to grab a bunch of content quickly.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 01:41

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Rand Brittain posted:

I think for that kind of thing your goal needs to not be "become more popular and influential than the Ennies," but instead to be "be a better example of how awards should work than the other awards people have actually heard of."

I feel like putting together a detailed, insightful, and funny summary of the games that came out in a given year, and an examination of which ones contributed something new to the hobby, would be fun to read and worth doing for its own sake.

I'd like to see awards broken down into things like setting, mechanics, art direction, best use of a dice pool, variety of character types, inclusivity. The "best game of the year" does you no good if it's a rules-light story game when you wanted something with crunch and solid tactical play.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 02:18

Rand Brittain: Mar 25, 2013; "Go on until you're stopped."

mllaneza posted:

I'd like to see awards broken down into things like setting, mechanics, art direction, best use of a dice pool, variety of character types, inclusivity. The "best game of the year" does you no good if it's a rules-light story game when you wanted something with crunch and solid tactical play.

Yeah, I agree. I don't even think there should be a "Best Game" award every year, because that just turns it into a popularity contest. Some years something is going to come out that's just obviously better, but definitely not every year.

I think it really would work best if you assign each category to a group of maybe five people and have them write that category up like it's a FATAL & Friends review of the games that came out that year.

I could think of a list of categories like:

Best Setting Book
Best Mechanics (Efficiency)
Best Mechanics (Inspirational)
Freshest Voices
Best Visual Design

It might also be neat to spotlight individual artists and writers, who could probably use the attention.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 04:18

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Ork Stabr wasn't even nominated, but Vampire the International Shaming got BEST GAME AWARD.

And people want to say we cannot do better?

# ? Jun 17, 2019 04:32

Comrade Koba: Jul 2, 2007

Rand Brittain posted:

.
I could think of a list of categories like:

Best Setting Book
Best Mechanics (Efficiency)
Best Mechanics (Inspirational)
Freshest Voices
Best Visual Design

The Zak S Award for Outstanding Pants-shittery (sponsored by Chik-fil-A).

# ? Jun 17, 2019 06:19

homullus: Mar 27, 2009

Elfgames posted:

we've tried it before, no one wants to do the work and the people that do want to do the work are not the ones who should be.

I think the last time we tried this, the idea nova'd almost instantly at an early disagreement over how the judging would actually happen.

On the other hand, in the board game thread, one goon made a BGG guild for SA, so we could all go in and rate our board games, and then see how truly refined our tastes in games were in comparison to the unwashed Dead of Winter/Fluxx masses. Could at least do something like that with RPG Geek, maybe?

# ? Jun 17, 2019 14:53

Mr.Misfit: Jan 10, 2013; The time for
SkellyBones
has come!

homullus posted:

I think the last time we tried this, the idea nova'd almost instantly at an early disagreement over how the judging would actually happen.

On the other hand, in the board game thread, one goon made a BGG guild for SA, so we could all go in and rate our board games, and then see how truly refined our tastes in games were in comparison to the unwashed Dead of Winter/Fluxx masses. Could at least do something like that with RPG Geek, maybe?

Heck ,I�d be all for it, as has been previously said:

Nothing we can do could be worse than ENnies or the Origin Awards except doing nothing itself!

Remember, if we do nothing, even Rob effing Liefeld is better than us, and no one wants that.

Edit: Admittingly, that was uncalled for.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 15:09

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

It really just needs to be an annual awards thread, everybody fights it out until the winners (and categories) are announced on page 100.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 15:13

TheGreatEvilKing: Mar 28, 2016

People still respect EnWorld? I thought that site died after the Edition Wars Purge.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 15:50

Slimnoid: Sep 6, 2012; Does that mean I don't get the job?

TheGreatEvilKing posted:

People still respect EnWorld? I thought that site died after the Edition Wars Purge.

Edition Wars never die, they just get crusty.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 16:29

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Mr.Misfit posted:

Heck ,I�d be all for it, as has been previously said:

Nothing we can do could be worse than ENnies or the Origin Awards except doing nothing itself!

Remember, if we do nothing, even Rob effing Liefeld is better than us, and no one wants that.

Edit: Admittingly, that was uncalled for.

But can you be as bad as the Diana Jones award? Do you have the raw strength of will?

# ? Jun 17, 2019 16:52

Mr.Misfit: Jan 10, 2013; The time for
SkellyBones
has come!

theironjef posted:

But can you be as bad as the Diana Jones award? Do you have the raw strength of will?

I don�t think that�s about raw strength of will and more about we simply don�t have an ugly burned copy of the Indy rpg nor a surpremely ugly object of ridicule to represent SAs special...leanings?

Edit: Also: Most certainly, but do we want to? Done right, this could be a simple choice-by-merit contest.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 21:55

PST: Jul 5, 2012; If only Milliband had eaten a vegan sausage roll instead of a bacon sandwich, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Mr.Misfit posted:

I don�t think that�s about raw strength of will and more about we simply don�t have an ugly burned copy of the Indy rpg nor a surpremely ugly object of ridicule to represent SAs special...leanings?

Edit: Also: Most certainly, but do we want to? Done right, this could be a simple choice-by-merit contest.

While the ennies have the facade of being voted on by the 'public', the last few years of dodgy judges, and some wtf wins have reinforced them as being pretty pointless. And likewise the Origins awards have been baffling for a while now. Added to which you apparently had to pay $40 this year to get to see the award ceremony.

So as far as meaning goes, SA awards would be about as meaningful, it's not like there's a really significant sales bump for winning an origins award for example.

Plus it could be an interesting thing for the trad-games goons to do. If nothing else we're way more likely to be recognising indie games than just about anyone else seems to.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 22:31

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

I've been part of an Ennie-awarding team twice.

It's a good thing to put on my trad games resume but it's not like people necessarily recognize what I worked on without a lengthy explanation. Certainly hasn't done anything to raise my profile.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 22:55

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

voting is just a popularity contest and "what's popular" never tracks perfectly with "what's good"

we should just have critique, which is what the industry desperately needs anyway. Real, even-handed critical assessment. Hey, we have FATAL and Friends, which kinda already does that! We should play to our strengths.

i am officially not volunteering to help

# ? Jun 17, 2019 23:16

Rand Brittain: Mar 25, 2013; "Go on until you're stopped."

I don't mind helping, but I feel like "collaborative FATAL & Friends essays that list multiple bright spots in a category" is going to be the way to go.

Maybe the question is, what areas do people feel they'd be really interested in and willing to write about?

# ? Jun 17, 2019 23:19

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

The industry needs more in-depth critique from people who have actually run the game or module they're speaking of. There's a large amount of "reviews" that amount to little more than impressions from a skim.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 23:39

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

^^^^ This! ^^^^

Rand Brittain posted:

I don't mind helping, but I feel like "collaborative FATAL & Friends essays that list multiple bright spots in a category" is going to be the way to go.

Maybe the question is, what areas do people feel they'd be really interested in and willing to write about?

I like this idea. Critical analysis is what I like to get out of this site, and it's hard to get credible critique elsewhere.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 23:39

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

I�ll judge Best Forgotten Realms supplement. Every year it will go to something by George Krashos that is completely useless to a 5e game but contains important new details on Cormyr, but corrupted by demons.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 23:39

Rand Brittain: Mar 25, 2013; "Go on until you're stopped."

I mean, I don't think something along the lines of "What's Going On In D&D" would be a bad thing. "What's Going On In The Forgotten Realms" is a valid subset of that, as is examining the role that streaming is beginning to play, for good and ill, and trying to figure out Hasbro's business plan and what it means for non-D&D games.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 23:42

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Rand Brittain posted:

I mean, I don't think something along the lines of "What's Going On In D&D" would be a bad thing. "What's Going On In The Forgotten Realms" is a valid subset of that, as is examining the role that streaming is beginning to play, for good and ill, and trying to figure out Hasbro's business plan and what it means for non-D&D games.

I don�t give a poo poo about any of that. Please just drown me in ancient elven lineages.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 23:43

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Let's go full circlejerk and make up modules, give "awards" to them and then write fake overly-earnest interviews with the creators of these modules after they've won the award. These can be hosted on the somethingawful front page and for maximum wankery each interview can be at least halfway gameable.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 23:52

admanb: Jun 18, 2014

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Let's go full circlejerk and make up modules, give "awards" to them and then write fake overly-earnest interviews with the creators of these modules after they've won the award. These can be hosted on the somethingawful front page and for maximum wankery each interview can be at least halfway gameable.

tbh it's starting to sound like you're designing an indie RPG.

# ? Jun 17, 2019 23:55

TheArchimage: Dec 17, 2008

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Let's go full circlejerk and make up modules, give "awards" to them and then write fake overly-earnest interviews with the creators of these modules after they've won the award. These can be hosted on the somethingawful front page and for maximum wankery each interview can be at least halfway gameable.

admanb posted:

tbh it's starting to sound like you're designing an indie RPG.

When you write a controversial supplement, roll + Edgy. On a 10+ your supplement is bold and provocative while still maintaining respect for the subject matter. On a 7-9, you receive some blowback. On a 6 or less you cause an international incident.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 00:57

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004; коммунизм хранится в яичках

Trad Games Tycoon?

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:17

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

I've been part of an Ennie-awarding team twice.

It's a good thing to put on my trad games resume but it's not like people necessarily recognize what I worked on without a lengthy explanation. Certainly hasn't done anything to raise my profile.

We've been nominated but honestly we're never gonna beat Ken & Robin Talk About Regional Baseball anyway.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 06:53

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Liquid Communism posted:

Trad Games Tycoon?

I know it's not what you mean, but has there ever even actually been a "tycoon" of TRPGs in real-life?

who is the Andrew Carnegie of elfgames

# ? Jun 18, 2019 07:08

8one6: May 20, 2012; When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!

gradenko_2000 posted:

I know it's not what you mean, but has there ever even actually been a "tycoon" of TRPGs in real-life?

who is the Andrew Carnegie of elfgames

If I had to guess I'd say Peter Adkison.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 07:19

Razorwired: Dec 7, 2008; It's about to start!

gradenko_2000 posted:

I know it's not what you mean, but has there ever even actually been a "tycoon" of TRPGs in real-life?

who is the Andrew Carnegie of elfgames

The 3.5 third party guys who made a million versions of "Have these 12 skills at max rank to do what any American laborer can"

# ? Jun 18, 2019 08:29

Xelkelvos: Dec 19, 2012

Leperflesh posted:

voting is just a popularity contest and "what's popular" never tracks perfectly with "what's good"

we should just have critique, which is what the industry desperately needs anyway. Real, even-handed critical assessment. Hey, we have FATAL and Friends, which kinda already does that! We should play to our strengths.

i am officially not volunteering to help

Have the awards be (the) F&F Awards

# ? Jun 18, 2019 14:20

Elfgames: Sep 11, 2011; Fun Shoe

gradenko_2000 posted:

I know it's not what you mean, but has there ever even actually been a "tycoon" of TRPGs in real-life?

who is the Andrew Carnegie of elfgames

i'd prefer not to mention my employer on the internet

# ? Jun 18, 2019 15:05

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

FactsAreUseless posted:

[Avenged Sevenfold voice] Zacky Sexpest

I'm on a forum and I'm starting to post (whoaaa)
Cause I'm a rapist and I'm gettjbf a bad reputation

# ? Jun 18, 2019 19:39

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

Mr.Misfit posted:

Heck ,I´d be all for it, as has been previously said:

Nothing we can do could be worse than ENnies or the Origin Awards except doing nothing itself!

Remember, if we do nothing, even Rob effing Liefeld is better than us, and no one wants that.

Edit: Admittingly, that was uncalled for.

Ron Liefeld is real and strong and my friend

# ? Jun 18, 2019 19:41

That Old Tree: Jun 24, 2012; nah

So RPGSite's worst are all aflutter over some pretty obvious but superficial parallels between a Call of Cthulhu adventure module and the modern rise of Nazis. The module literally casts the American Nazi movement as one of the villains you contend with, and has a Rev Coughlin expy in it. Which obviously means it is a swipe at Trump and his supporters.

And the creative director for Chaosium came in to try to, not quite apologize, but ameliorate this reaction to making Nazis the villains in a pulp adventure involving a Hollow Earth expedition in the 1930's. It was written in 2016! It's all a coincidence! "It Can't Happen Here" has no modern relevance! We'll hire anyone, left or right! Greg Stafford was a crazy shaman; no politics here, just good writing!

There's another thread on the site with a few people literally talking about removing all those distasteful "punk" elements from cyberpunk games.

Super glad to see gaming company representatives running their PR on a literal fasc site.

Super glad I just bought a CoC slipcase to fill out my library. :v:

# ? Jun 18, 2019 19:50

Jimbozig: Sep 30, 2003; I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

The lesson I've learned from this thread? Don't buy any RPGs from major companies in the business. Stick to indies.

Like seriously, who is left that is a major company in RPGs and doesn't suck? Paizo, WotC, Green Ronin, Chaosium, whoever does White Wolf poo poo now...

# ? Jun 18, 2019 19:57

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 21:52

Punkinhead: Apr 2, 2015

Despite playing a lot of Pathfinder I never really stuck around the communities long enough to hear good or bad about Paizo. What did they do?

# ? Jun 18, 2019 20:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

«‹›1229 »