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frajaq posted:Besides the game actually being made I really have to wonder about the population of these games if/when they are released, specially something like Camelot Unchained which is mostly focused on PvP. You know this is a pretty interesting point to me. Back when I originally backed Camelot Unchained, I had much more interest in pvp, organizing 2-3 groups worth of players, and having the run of it to really ruin the other team's time of playing. Seven years later, I'm not at all interested in pvp as the primary driving force behind a MMO anymore.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:24
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frajaq posted:Besides the game actually being made I really have to wonder about the population of these games if/when they are released, specially something like Camelot Unchained which is mostly focused on PvP. I think the backup plan (and possibly the main plan) is to license out their engine to other game companies
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Jun 18, 2019 05:51
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DeathSandwich posted:Dungeons in everquest were glorified chat rooms where you occasionally squash goblins. That's why they were awesome and awful at the same time. Yeah, people complain all the time that in modern MMORPGs "people just don't talk in dungeons anymore" and for some reason they blame groupfinder, instead of the fact that in EQ you were basically clicking pressing 1-3 buttons then waiting 15 minutes, while in modern mmorpgs you are hitting 15-18 keybinds and actively having to dodge circles constantly. No one is going to pause to type in that situation.
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Jun 18, 2019 10:09
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If you can't have an entire wordless conversation through character emotes, then it is you who has the problem.
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Jun 18, 2019 10:35
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Mormon Star Wars posted:Yeah, people complain all the time that in modern MMORPGs "people just don't talk in dungeons anymore" and for some reason they blame groupfinder, instead of the fact that in EQ you were basically clicking pressing 1-3 buttons then waiting 15 minutes, while in modern mmorpgs you are hitting 15-18 keybinds and actively having to dodge circles constantly. No one is going to pause to type in that situation. I dont remember most of EQ like this at all. For groping at least a good group would have a monk or ranger pulling constantly, an enchanter would be mezzing the extra mobs that had been pulled and lined up, the tank and DPS would be killing one mob at a time and the cleric would be healing/meding. The skill system was pretty basic but the coordination necessary for a good group was pretty in depth. A good XP group in EQ was pretty crazy to play with. After everyone got settled in it was pretty common for no one to talk for hours. WoW in the first few expansions required some degree of coordination too. People had to coordinate CC, explain mechanics, etc etc. Stopping for to drink for mana wasnt nearly as tedious as in EQ but it did happen. The time involved in getting a group together lead to people being invested in working together to get through stuff. As long as you werent a complete idiot people would usually be willing to explain stuff to you. On top of that the smaller server based communities made people less likely to be dicks. People really did talk a lot more in groups during this little era thing of MMOs. For a variety of reasons the LFG tool really did blow a lot of that stuff out of the water.
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Jun 18, 2019 14:32
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the June newsletter comes out tomorrow. The last one was so bad that I couldn't even find anything to post in the thread lol
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Jun 18, 2019 15:27
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cc really has been left at the wayside in favor of aoe'ing everything in a dungeon at once last time i played wow you ran dungeons like you were grinding xp in a typical korean mmo ffxiv too
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Jun 18, 2019 21:14
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WoW moved most of the thought requirement to Mythic+. Which does very much require proper coordination and CC, beyond even ye olden days back in vanilla. And you have to get a mythic+ together manually and walk your fat rear end there on foot, so it has many elements of the old days rolled into it.
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Jun 18, 2019 21:46
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World of Warcraft is supposedly lowering the level cap from 120 to something else. Much like how stats were squished down, level cap is going to be doing the same sometime in the near future.
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Jun 18, 2019 21:48
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Percelus posted:cc really has been left at the wayside in favor of aoe'ing everything in a dungeon at once The reason wow moved away from CC intensive fights / Dungeons was because of their attempt in going from the vanilla game to the first and especially second expansion to make all the dps specs group viable. Player groups were already one person smaller than EQ but the only classes that had consistent crowd control were the dedicated hard dps classes (hunter, mage, warlock, rogue). The hybrid like shaman and paladins and druids in vanilla EQ were kind of a mess outside of their respective healing specs and not super viable, leading to things like elemental shamans and ret paladins being forced to wear healing gear and heal anyway. TBC did a lot to bring those hybrid dps specs in line with dedicated damage classes, but the Dungeons (especailly hard modes before everyone had really good gear) were tuned with a group with 2ish CCers in mind. While my elemental shaman could tear it up damage wise with the other dps classes, I still was losing out (and sometimes actively kicked from groups) over a mage or warlock who could cc a spellcaster in a nasty 5 mob pull on top of bringing top shelf dps. By the time Wrath came along, Blizzard's answer wasn't necessarily to give everyone hard recastable CC, it was just to adjust the tuning such that you didn't need it. By this point, all the tank kits were adjusted to all have some measure of area effect threat (I vaguely remember druid tanks having a lot of problems with this in TBC) such that they could better handle big crowds of bullshit and the need for hard cc for dungeon groups want near as intense. I would trust that any direct everquest descendanta that had hard crowd control requirements would work that into the meta. EQ grouping really was balanced around having 1-2 hard support classes like enchanters and bards and shaman. Vanguard carried that philosophy, and psionicists in that game were really neat (I give Vanguard credit - the class design in general was really cool, shame about the rest of the game). That being said, I'm still skeptical about this game. I don't trust that Benzo Brad has learned the mistakes of the past and he's going to ride his vision of the edge of a cliff.
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Jun 19, 2019 15:13
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EQ enchanters were a dps class tho But yeah a lot of it was an attempt to make every class viable in hard group content, in older MMOs you often see classes explicitly poor in that content but good at other stuff (farming random spawns, soloing things, etc).
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Jun 19, 2019 16:49
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The newsletter is out. https://pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2019_june_intro/ My summary: - Project Faerthale still isn't done or ready to be shown to the public lol. - The information dump for Project Faerthale is just a bunch of lore and concept art. I'm starting to think it isn't even real. - Brad and one other person from Visionary Realms went to e3 for "business development meetings" which I assume means tried to get more funding. - You can now pay for your pledge in installments. - If you buy the Reignborn pledge you get a very special reward... quote:We have also added a Design a Quest reward to the Reignborn and retired Aesthetician pledges. This reward will be retroactively awarded should you already have one of these packages. Design a Quest allows you to join the Pantheon Design team via conference call for an epic quest line design. You will sit in on the call with the team and offer your thoughts and feedback including the quest story, requirements, and its rewards
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Jun 19, 2019 18:45
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so this Faerthale thing is a way for them to show the public/investors that they can actually make an MMO zone with all the features they want the entire game to be about?
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Jun 19, 2019 19:15
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frajaq posted:so this Faerthale thing is a way for them to show the public/investors that they can actually make an MMO zone with all the features they want the entire game to be about? That is my theory. I think they realized they don't have enough money to complete the game, so they pivoted to a single zone with all the systems working. Then they present that to investors and probably sell an early access package to it lol
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Jun 19, 2019 19:48
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frajaq posted:so this Faerthale thing is a way for them to show the public/investors that they can actually make an MMO zone with all the features they want the entire game to be about? Yes project fart hole is a vertical slice. For some reason this wasn't the very first thing they focused on delivering years ago though?
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Jun 19, 2019 20:23
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People are still willing to fund an MMO's development with the expectation that they will get their money back plus some profit?
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Jun 19, 2019 20:36
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CoffeeBooze posted:People are still willing to fund an MMO's development with the expectation that they will get their money back plus some profit? :shhh:
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Jun 19, 2019 21:20
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CoffeeBooze posted:People are still willing to fund an MMO's development with the expectation that they will get their money back plus some profit? Well it clearly worked so well for <NULL EXCEPTION ITEM NOT FOUND>
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Jun 19, 2019 21:25
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frajaq posted:like yeah I do legit feel bad for these people that still think the game is going to be out i'll play with you bro dont worry
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Jun 20, 2019 03:29
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please knock Mom! posted:EQ enchanters were a dps class tho I mean... Nobody took an enchanter for their brown-hot dps numbers (at least in the early expansions). They took them because of their ability to control a fight and make the dedicated killers that much more killy. They could throw out some damage spells when dealing with single pulls or when soloing (or when paired up with another enchanter / bard who was running crowd control). Charmed pets could tear poo poo up, but they could also be a liability if it broke mid fight or pathing broke and it starts running off in random directions. If an enchanter got in a group and said he wasn't going to cc or debuff because he was a dps chanter, that would be an enchanter not long for that group. At that point you're a third rate wizard with better mana regen, and wizards are already kind of not great if you're use to the era of EQ that Project 99 lives in. Charm becomes a lot more potent a damage tool in the later expansions with dire charm and AAs and the like.
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Jun 21, 2019 17:26
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And after that it runs headlong off a cliff face never to be seen again because they nerfed the everloving piss out of charm. Then every enchanter heads back to PoF tables to solo AAs for the rest of their days, stopping only to try to peddle their KEI equivalent buff at the guildhall entrance.
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Jun 21, 2019 17:59
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it was always weird (and cool) to me how eq had three different mage classes. i only knew enchanter did crowd control and poo poo because my brother was one and knew wizard teleported but besides that i still don't know what the differences were.
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Jun 21, 2019 18:08
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DeathSandwich posted:I mean... Nobody took an enchanter for their brown-hot dps numbers (at least in the early expansions). They took them because of their ability to control a fight and make the dedicated killers that much more killy. They could throw out some damage spells when dealing with single pulls or when soloing (or when paired up with another enchanter / bard who was running crowd control). Charmed pets could tear poo poo up, but they could also be a liability if it broke mid fight or pathing broke and it starts running off in random directions. If an enchanter got in a group and said he wasn't going to cc or debuff because he was a dps chanter, that would be an enchanter not long for that group. At that point you're a third rate wizard with better mana regen, and wizards are already kind of not great if you're use to the era of EQ that Project 99 lives in. Charm becomes a lot more potent a damage tool in the later expansions with dire charm and AAs and the like. This post is so wrong about basically everything you said re: enchanters. -charm pet DPS is the best dps, mobs hit harder than players always. NPCs (charm pets) also have WAY more HP than players, so a charm pet can serve as a legit tank in several group setups -chanters are taken for their pet dps, and CC, but they are all expected to use charm pets these days because it is optimal -they have like 5 tools to not die to a pet break, and it takes a single button press to prevent it from happening -dire charm killed enchanter DPS, because it was a hard level limit of what you could charm, and they stopped allowing chanters to charm mobs in future expansions, killing enchanter DPS in later expansions with dire charm, aas, and the like. Dire charm is useful for farming old content, not pop+ content -they stopped giving enchanters new charm spells, and charm is a level limited spell. Charm pets were too OP and they stopped enchanters from being the class that can do it all. -no enchanter that knows their class is using the nuke line in regular pulls, their mana is for CC and re-charming. Also, that nuke line has a stun component which means it is a giant taunt button. You stop using that after a handful of casts if you are able to put two and two together. On raids, enchanter's charm pets (about 4-5 enchanters a given raid, give or take) regularly carry the DPS by doing 30%+ of damage done to any raid target until Luclin / PoP. onesixtwo fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jun 21, 2019 |
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Jun 21, 2019 20:02
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in classic EQ, one enchanter pet outdamaged 5 raid geared rogues
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Jun 21, 2019 21:08
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I didnt get very far in the original everquest because I was a babby but I played enchanter from 1-50 in one of the progression servers that they did a couple years and it was really strong and fun
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Jun 21, 2019 21:48
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onesixtwo posted:enchanters Fair enough. I never played enchanter in classic and my experience with pub enchanters tended to be very hit or miss. The ones that were on top of keeping their charm under control were aces, but about as often as it worked out it would usually be the prime cause of things falling to poo poo, especially if it was a risky charm like a wizard npc. Lower to mid level before the charms really start lasting a long time and before chanters had their -resist debuffs it was usually a big enough gamble that I remember some tanks/healers saying not to charm.
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Jun 21, 2019 23:50
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Not charming is basically turning the best dps class in the game into a sub par supporting one
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Jun 21, 2019 23:55
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The only time I ever saw issues with enchanter charming mobs was when the tank was asleep at the wheel and didnt taunt it if charm broke and the pet started interrupting the enchanters casts. The floating sword and shield pet enchanters had was also super cool. I played a cleric for all of my time in EQ and was always super jealous of enchanters but never had the time to roll a new character.
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Jun 22, 2019 01:19
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So they reworked their sheer mass of pledge tiers apparently. This "comparison sheet" is now going around trying to make sense of them, and it's horrifying: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EQaIx_CNYXLn1KDuVMXQ8ojQdna0VaZ2yMHMaMOEDRQ/htmlview How do you even manage to do this?
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Jun 22, 2019 07:04
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Sachant posted:So they reworked their sheer mass of pledge tiers apparently. This "comparison sheet" is now going around trying to make sense of them, and it's horrifying: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EQaIx_CNYXLn1KDuVMXQ8ojQdna0VaZ2yMHMaMOEDRQ/htmlview If I was a millionaire, I wouldn't buy frivolous things like fast cars or expensive wine or priceless works of art. I'd buy the highest tier package of every doomed to fail kickstarter project
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Jun 22, 2019 10:30
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onesixtwo posted:This post is so wrong about basically everything you said re: enchanters. I think this is mostly a retrospective on what good chanters were able to do, and I suppose that's how it's done on P99 because the game has been completely figured out. But back in the day on live, most enchanters just did CC, buffs and slows. quote:-they have like 5 tools to not die to a pet break, and it takes a single button press to prevent it from happening I remember we used to keep the charmed pet at 5% hp and snared. That way, if charm broke it'd try to flee, but the snare would make it just stand there. Easy.
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Jun 22, 2019 13:17
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what's interesting about eq having three mage classes is in most other mmos shaman and druid wouldn't be separate classes.
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Jun 22, 2019 14:15
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Groovelord Neato posted:it was always weird (and cool) to me how eq had three different mage classes. i only knew enchanter did crowd control and poo poo because my brother was one and knew wizard teleported but besides that i still don't know what the differences were. They had 4 int classes. You forgot necromancer
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Jun 22, 2019 18:35
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you're right but i see that as something that'd still be separated in another game. like i said i still dunno the difference between magician and wizard apart from wizards being able to port.
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Jun 22, 2019 18:38
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Groovelord Neato posted:you're right but i see that as something that'd still be separated in another game. like i said i still dunno the difference between magician and wizard apart from wizards being able to port. ahh yeah. The basic idea is this: Wizards: have control over all of the elements: magic, ice, fire to do direct damage and can use that arcane knowledge to port Mages: summoner archetype - they can only do magic and fire damage and even though they're direct damage the "flavor" is summoning - e.g., summoning a fireball or summoning a "clash of swords" to fall on the enemy Enchanters: mind control, through CC, and even the flavor of their dots is supposed to be that the enemy thinks they're choking to death Necromancers: power over disease and poison, they don't summon they "raise" minions, and they're mostly dots that infect the enemy or they extract their life essence/soul (lifetap) that's a really nerdy post
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Jun 22, 2019 19:30
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The important thing to note between a wizard and a mage is that a Wizard is straight up a blaster, it's their one thing they do (besides teleporting) and they have the highest damage spells as well as the highest mana efficiency direct damage spells of any class. They also have guaranteed damage against even highly resistant enemies with the Lure of ___ spells that are nearly unresistable. The major problem being that big shots of burst damage in EQ got you killed, and there's no bigger shot of burst damage than ripping 1600 damage sunstrike and the monster remembering why he doesn't like you. Mages have less options available to them in terms of dealing spell damage (and it is also less mana efficient too), but their pets and their summoned utility items bring a lot more utility to the table. Mages also have a couple of very in demand spells for grouping in the form of Call of the Hero (which instantly teleports someone to your location so they don't have to leg it to you through an entire dungeon) and Modulation rods that you can use to convert health to mana for so casters get an extra shot of mana in longer fights.
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Jun 23, 2019 07:42
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Ehud posted:here is an important hype video made by community members Wait what the gently caress is this
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Jun 24, 2019 03:23
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Relayer posted:Wait what the gently caress is this a collection of Pantheon’s chief investors
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Jun 24, 2019 03:57
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So will we ever see a 'slowmmo' in the future or are they all going to be doomed from the start?
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Jun 24, 2019 20:30
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Ehud posted:a collection of Pantheon’s chief investors Thank god most of them are older than me
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Jun 24, 2019 23:05
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