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Lol such a big accident that state media posted a video of it with dramatic music. https://twitter.com/PressTV/status/1141765503075196929 Also https://twitter.com/GEsfandiari/status/1141613706159243264
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Jun 20, 2019 20:03
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I know I'm asking for quite a bit but have wars historically been started over something so inconsequential? It's a drone, not a person or a citizen.
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Jun 20, 2019 21:25
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Tab8715 posted:I know I'm asking for quite a bit but have wars historically been started over something so inconsequential?
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Jun 20, 2019 21:35
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Freaking great. Just what the world needs another war and another economic recession.
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Jun 20, 2019 21:43
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Does the drone receive a post humanous merit of honor?
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Jun 20, 2019 21:47
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Tab8715 posted:I know I'm asking for quite a bit but have wars historically been started over something so inconsequential? WW1 started because the guy driving Franz Ferdinands car drove down the wrong street and stopped next to the deli where the assassin was having a sandwich
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Jun 20, 2019 21:48
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Feldegast42 posted:WW1 started because the guy driving Franz Ferdinands car drove down the wrong street and stopped next to the deli where the assassin was having a sandwich Someone was intentional killed. An actual leader.
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Jun 20, 2019 21:50
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Tab8715 posted:Someone was intentional killed. An actual leader. franz ferdinand was, while not strictly speaking nobody, not actually that important. he was the expected next emperor of Austria-Hungary, but they had plenty of backups. some lovely princeling got shot by some random serbians, and so Europe lost a generation of men.
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Jun 20, 2019 21:54
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Tab8715 posted:I know I'm asking for quite a bit but have wars historically been started over something so inconsequential? Depends on whether one side desperately wants to start a war and is just looking for the first vaguely plausible excuse they can find. There have been times where wars have been started over far less, and there have been times when far worse happened without leading to war or even to escalation. In each case, what mattered wasn't the actual event itself, but the attitudes and relations of the countries before the event. World War I was technically a result of the shooting of Franz Ferdinand, but the real cause of the war was that most of the major European powers had been waiting for years for a good opportunity to start a war that they thought would realign the balance of power in their favor. Austria had wanted to end Serbia for years; they just needed a decent excuse so they could claim they weren't the aggressor (for diplomatic reasons). Germany wanted a general European war. France and Russia and Britain wanted a war with Germany. The "powder keg" was that everyone desperately wanted to go to war with everyone else, but wanted a suitably ambiguous excuse so they wouldn't be seen as the one starting it. For other examples, the Anglo-Soviet Invasion of Iran started because the British demanded that neutral Iran expel all Germans from their country, and Iran refused. If that sounds like a ridiculous demand, that's because it was - the intention was to either destabilize Iran's neutrality or provide an excuse for invasion, since Iran's strategic geographical location made it extremely desirable for the Allies. On the other hand, Israeli forces attacked a clearly-marked US warship during the Six-Day War, killing dozens of Navy sailors, and the US ignored it because they weren't interested in conflict with Israel. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jun 20, 2019 |
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Jun 20, 2019 22:11
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Grouchio posted:"I have a feeling that someone under the command of that country made a big mistake," he said. "I find it hard to believe it was intentional. It could have been someone who was loose and stupid who did it." - Trump (who is either backing down or doubling down hard on the drone)
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Jun 20, 2019 23:06
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Main Paineframe posted:On the other hand, Israeli forces attacked a clearly-marked US warship during the Six-Day War, killing dozens of Navy sailors, and the US ignored it because they weren't interested in conflict with Israel. They didn't ignore it. There were investigations by both the US and Israel which concluded that it was not intentional. Not very comforting for those attacked or the families of those killed, nor for people who enjoy spending years building up conspiracy theories, but friendly fire is a thing that happens in war, within the same military as well as between the militaries of different countries.
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Jun 21, 2019 00:06
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Absurd Alhazred posted:They didn't ignore it. There were investigations by both the US and Israel which concluded that it was not intentional. Not very comforting for those attacked or the families of those killed, nor for people who enjoy spending years building up conspiracy theories, but friendly fire is a thing that happens in war, within the same military as well as between the militaries of different countries. Plenty of senior officials have dismissed those findings as political expedient and utter nonsense however.
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Jun 21, 2019 00:15
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uh I got the sense on the radio this evening that Trump and the US government are pretty pissed about the drone shoot down. . . Seems like there's a lot of pressure to retaliate somehow, hopefully if there is retaliation it won't be of the lethal kind.
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Jun 21, 2019 00:28
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forkboy84 posted:Plenty of senior officials have dismissed those findings as political expedient and utter nonsense however. I'm not getting into this discussion again. Either way, the US did not ignore it, which is the claim I was responding to. They didn't just pretend it didn't happen. Israel also ended up paying restitution after restitution for it, to the families of the dead, to the wounded, and then for material damage to the ship.
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Jun 21, 2019 00:52
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Double post for news: https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1141896028314095622 WELP! 
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Jun 21, 2019 03:51
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In Navy SEAL War Crimes Case, Key Witness Says He Killed Captive ISIS Fighter Like a scene from a courtroom genre, the key witness in the war crimes trial of a NAVY SEAL (which can do no wrong) dramatically recanted his testimony and said HE was the one to kill the captive ISIS prisoner. Despite saying he saw the psychopath Gallagher do it in multiple other statements, and conveniently after he was granted immunity from prosecution. The jury, being the chumps they are, are going to fall for this and let another one of our boys off to fight another day of mass murder and psychopathic torture.
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Jun 21, 2019 03:51
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Double post for news: They're just being dramatic. This whole poo poo is just both Iran and US doing the bare minimum to show that they're SUPER SERIOUS this time.
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Jun 21, 2019 03:53
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forkboy84 posted:Plenty of senior officials have dismissed those findings as political expedient and utter nonsense however. People (even unnamed "senior officials") doubting an official finding does not make that finding false. It doesn't make it true, either, but that's not what you're attempting to argue here.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:04
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I won't expect war until I hear reports of bases mobilizing in the states.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:12
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Chuka Umana posted:In Navy SEAL War Crimes Case, Key Witness Says He Killed Captive ISIS Fighter The witness and the dude who are on trial were both SEALs in the same unit. 
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Jun 21, 2019 04:15
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I am a little concerned about a snap general, if only because the government will be headed by someone who knows from the Brexit referendum and the MEP elections that he can cheat his blubbery arse off and no institutions will stop him.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:18
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Darth Walrus posted:I am a little concerned about a snap general, if only because the government will be headed by someone who knows from the Brexit referendum and the MEP elections that he can cheat his blubbery arse off and no institutions will stop him. Wrong thread?
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Jun 21, 2019 04:18
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Tab8715 posted:I know I'm asking for quite a bit but have wars historically been started over something so inconsequential? There was a war over some dude’s lost ear
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Jun 21, 2019 04:23
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Wrong thread? Blubbery arses are universal.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:27
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Double post for news: Possibly related, also  https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1141904368356220929?s=20
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Jun 21, 2019 04:46
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I'm 100% sure that's true and that just leaked to Haberman by Trump to make the administration look SUPER SERIOUS.
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Jun 21, 2019 04:59
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I have family in Iran, this is really scary.
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Jun 21, 2019 05:48
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Glenn Quebec posted:I have family in Iran, this is really scary. One of my good friends moved back to Tehran after grad school and she just had a baby. Her Instagram feed is just full of pictures of her playing with her baby/kid. 
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Jun 21, 2019 06:52
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Somehow I don't think Trump actually wants to start a war right now, but someone on Twitter will challenge his manhood over "pulling back", and this will literally start a war.
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Jun 21, 2019 06:56
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I think the administration is playing "I'm not touching you!" in the hope of Iran hitting back and providing a cassus belli they can use to override domestic opponents.
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Jun 21, 2019 06:57
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caps on caps on caps posted:Somehow I don't think Trump actually wants to start a war right now, but someone on Twitter will challenge his manhood over "pulling back", and this will literally start a war.
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Jun 21, 2019 06:57
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The Lone Badger posted:I think the administration is playing "I'm not touching you!" in the hope of Iran hitting back and providing a cassus belli they can use to override domestic opponents.
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Jun 21, 2019 08:37
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Have some fun and put yourself in the shoes of an IRGC intelligence agent. Don't get any crazy ideas now but just think about it from the Iranians' perspective. Well, you might think the Yankees are trying to bait your rear end but you're smart and not a sucker because you're used to surviving in a world where you're the No. 1 desired meal by its biggest, baddest predator.
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Jun 21, 2019 08:40
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If they haven't purged competency out of the Air Force, then the U.S. response, if anything, is going to be too blow up Iranian poo poo in Syria
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Jun 21, 2019 08:58
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I feel bad for any US pilots who fly recon flights. I think that's the next escalation. Bolton and Pompeo are going to authorize a manned recon flight over a very well defended area of Iran or somewhere in the Persian Gulf. It won't be a drone that geta downed this time, but a manned spyplane. That will be the last straw for the "administration". Some poor pilot is going to get shot down so these warmongers will finally have the justification they need to start a war.
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Jun 21, 2019 10:27
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Charliegrs posted:I feel bad for any US pilots who fly recon flights. I think that's the next escalation. Bolton and Pompeo are going to authorize a manned recon flight over a very well defended area of Iran or somewhere in the Persian Gulf. It won't be a drone that geta downed this time, but a manned spyplane. That will be the last straw for the "administration". Some poor pilot is going to get shot down so these warmongers will finally have the justification they need to start a war. I'm waiting for the first
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Jun 21, 2019 10:37
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Honestly I feel like if the US provokes Iran into full war footing by doing even a limited bombing campaign they can kiss their Middle East interests goodbye. Iran is going to want blood and the only real way for them to be contained is if the US goes nuclear. War with Iran will absolutely topple the great American empire.
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Jun 21, 2019 11:15
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Apparently US planes were in the air about to strike Iran, but Trump pulled them back at the last minute. quote:WASHINGTON — President Trump approved military strikes against Iran in retaliation for downing an American surveillance drone, but pulled back from launching them on Thursday night after a day of escalating tensions. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/20/world/middleeast/iran-us-drone.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
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Jun 21, 2019 11:40
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The press is getting played, per usual. Now there's this narrative circulating among those who believe what the newspapers say that Tucker Carlson is the one man holding Trump back from the brink. Because Trump is a madman, don't you know? He's just so gosh-darn unpredictable and crazy and folks better watch out! https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1141947970109050882
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Jun 21, 2019 12:05
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I just don't get what anyone saber-rattling stands to gain by a war with Iran, do they really believe they could pull off a "quick regime change" and not have another Iraq situation on their hands, or be responsible for a nuclear wasteland? The only thing I see is profits from arms deals and oil fields... Oh God it's really just this, right? 
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Jun 21, 2019 12:06
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