https://twitter.com/virgiltexas/status/1065020457764704256
|
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 01:20 |
|
|
# ? May 24, 2024 20:00 |
|
Has anyone actually read the Nagle book? Was wondering if there's loads of foreboding for her increasing alt-right congeniality. She appears to be heading down the 'Tim Pool Rabbithole'.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 01:21 |
|
It never ceases to amaze me that people think Nagle is arguing in favor of racism rather than pointing out one the origins of working-class racism and what to do about it (make it so that the global economy isn't hosed in such a way that everyone must flock to the rich imperialist countries, and make it so people who do migrate aren't being exploited and undercutting the wages of local labor).
PRESIDENT LADYCOP has issued a correction as of 01:48 on Jun 23, 2019 |
# ? Jun 23, 2019 01:36 |
|
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 01:41 |
|
I'm quite enjoying the revolutions podcast, just on the 3rd episode. so much to get through tho.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 01:42 |
|
the motion for debate is literally just a collection of words to me, completely wretched empty headed nonsense.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 01:43 |
|
Kill All Normies isn't good, and anyone who reads it should go in knowing they'll be let down. You can take away whatever you like from the book because Nagle isn't a very rigorous thinker. She doesn't think very hard about solutions to the problems she lays out, and often formulates the problems poorly in the first place. The haters are partially right: she sucks at getting across her points in the text and comes off looking like a reactionary because of it. She did much better in advance interviews, ironically. It's obvious to me that she followed the fame after publication and ended up in some vaguely center-left bubble of too-online cranks and sadboys.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 01:53 |
|
drat what the gently caress is up with that dudes eyes
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 01:57 |
|
PRESIDENT LADYCOP posted:It never ceases to amaze me that people think Nagle is arguing in favor of racism rather than pointing out one the origins of working-class racism and what to do about it (make it so that the global economy isn't hosed in such a way that everyone must flock to the rich imperialist countries, and make it so people who do migrate aren't being exploited and undercutting the wages of local labor). everyone should stay where they are born, except for me, an irish phd who gets to travel freely to the us and the eu
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 01:59 |
|
Badger of Basra posted:everyone should stay where they are born, except for me, an irish phd who gets to travel freely to the us and the eu Yeah, it's almost like brain drain and mass emigration are problems that require solutions at the national and international level rather than the individual.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 02:24 |
|
PRESIDENT LADYCOP posted:Yeah, it's almost like brain drain and mass emigration are problems that require solutions at the national and international level rather than the individual. this still presupposes that the good and natural thing is for people to stay where they are born, and not to move
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 03:25 |
|
"we gotta get more racist" -good praxis, apparently
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 03:29 |
|
Badger of Basra posted:this still presupposes that the good and natural thing is for people to stay where they are born, and not to move Yes, it's bad when people feel compelled to leave their homes because staying is not economically viable.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 03:57 |
|
really queer Christmas posted:I just finished the French Revolution series, you can definitely tell he's still pretty liberal because of how squeamish he got over the terror. when he covered Kosciuskos revolt and mentioned that 20,000 poles died in a single day because of the Russians wanting revenge compared to 16K Frenchmen dying over the entire span of the terror... I got my answer on how bad it really was. quote:Like in his previous battles, when he had ordered his men to spare non-combatants and the evacuation of townspeople,[12] Suvorov issued an order on 3 November 1794 that included special instructions regarding the treatment of enemy civilians, "Do not enter houses; spare any enemy asking for quarter; do not kill unarmed men; do not make war on women; do not touch youngsters".[13][14] However, after the battle spread to the streets[15] and the insurgents hid in civilian houses,[16] vowing to fight to the last man,[17] the Russian troops, against the orders given by Suvorov prior to the battle, started to invade the houses held by the insurgents and killed a number of townspeople in revenge for the slaughter of the Russian Garrison in Warsaw... Yes, these two situations are entirely similar.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 04:17 |
|
y’all are gonna lose your minds when the revolutions guy says that maybe the Soviets did something bad once
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 04:23 |
|
Lol 16,000 poles and 20,000 Frenchmen Over 80,000 children have starved to death from our genocide in Yemen since 2016
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 04:30 |
|
CountFosco posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Praga#Massacre yeah the suvarov one is worse because a lot of the people who got got in the terror had it coming
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 05:05 |
|
PRESIDENT LADYCOP posted:It never ceases to amaze me that people think Nagle is arguing in favor of racism rather than pointing out one the origins of working-class racism and what to do about it (make it so that the global economy isn't hosed in such a way that everyone must flock to the rich imperialist countries, and make it so people who do migrate aren't being exploited and undercutting the wages of local labor). "She doesn't support racism, she's pointing out that it's existence is justified specifically because the left aren't infallible actors who've already created the perfect socio-economic system"
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 06:39 |
|
Bedshaped posted:Has anyone actually read the Nagle book? Kill All Normies is extremely forboding of someone who doesnt quite understand anything thats going on and learned everything they know on 4chan and accepted a great deal of it uncritically.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 06:50 |
|
Badger of Basra posted:y’all are gonna lose your minds when the revolutions guy says that maybe the Soviets did something bad once "Lenin, like Robespierre, did nothing wrong" -Michael Duncan
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 06:51 |
|
she could have interviewed goons and made a far better thesis based around the “failson”
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 06:53 |
|
420 Gank Mid posted:Kill All Normies is extremely forboding of someone who doesnt quite understand anything thats going on and learned everything they know on 4chan and accepted a great deal of it uncritically. it's pretty good as an anthropological study of the lovely tribe in question as literally anything else it's godawful and somewhere along the line she got the idea it was something else.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 07:05 |
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:it's pretty good as an anthropological study of the lovely tribe in question She literally just took them at their word that they turned radical because of feminists.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 07:24 |
|
Has Nagel done anything besides making leftist posters thirsty? Serious question
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 07:27 |
|
MizPiz posted:Has Nagel done anything besides making leftist posters thirsty? i don't think you know what "thirsty" means
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 07:33 |
|
Dr. Killjoy posted:she could have interviewed goons and made a far better thesis based around the “failson” to be fair I think one or two "academics" already tried this and the results were disastrous yet hilarious
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 07:51 |
|
they should interview me I'm an expert on 4chan circa 2004-2013
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 08:15 |
|
I think there is a truth in 4chan and Tumblr rhyming, in that they were both places filled with people constantly foaming at the mouth at fake screenshots and endless cruelty for themselves and each other, both in their respective in groups and outside them I think this is more the result of having a bunch of alienated young people with politics completely stripped of any class consciousness and a feeling of total powerlessness, along with the fact that these kind of groups allow people who would previously "age out" of this kind of stuff, because even if they didn't their friends would go on to meet people and settle down get married etc. the idea that either of them "caused" each other or whatever justifies whatever else doesn't make any sense because both groups are simply products of their environment, at one point they thrived off each other, but at this point both are indistinguishable from parodies enough it doesn't matter, also current 4chan is a very different userbase from back then, as is Tumblr id guess, so it's not really useful or interesting unless you care about internet culture history
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 08:23 |
quote:This general perception feeds the weird victim mentality of magazines like Quillette, which they use to lend a bogus nobility to their various articles peddling right-wing pseudo-history and defending scientific racism. It is what has allowed the comedian Andrew Doyle to receive what must be, judging by the amount of coverage he has received recently in the British press, a pretty hefty advance for a book ostensibly authored by “Titania McGrath,” a sort of cack-handed parody of an online left-wing commentator — exactly the sort of person middle-aged men like to imagine is telling them they're not allowed to say whatever they want any more. And it is what led Angela Nagle, who used to be seen as being “of the left” before she started hanging out with alt-right YouTubers and voicing anti-immigration rhetoric in conservative magazines, to declare in Kill All Normies that “the politics of transgression” was no longer the purview of the left, but rather a resurgent and dynamic right. https://theoutline.com/post/7219/free-speech-debates-are-silly
|
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 08:29 |
|
She's not wrong.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 08:45 |
|
MizPiz posted:"She doesn't support racism, she's pointing out that it's existence is justified specifically because the left aren't infallible actors who've already created the perfect socio-economic system" She never claimed racism was justified. She claimed there are material conflicts between different segments of the working class and that the left must address those conflicts, not just stick our fingers in our ears and shout "RACISM!!!" when they are brought up, because if we don't the right is perfectly willing to to address them with racism. PRESIDENT LADYCOP has issued a correction as of 08:54 on Jun 23, 2019 |
# ? Jun 23, 2019 08:50 |
|
PRESIDENT LADYCOP posted:She never claimed racism was justified. She claimed there are material conflicts between different segments of the working class and that the left must address those conflicts, not just stick our fingers in our ears and shout "RACISM!!!" when they are brought up, because if we don't the right is perfectly willing to to address them with racism. the material conflicts between those "different segments of the working class" are caused by white supremacy though addressing the racism at the root of these problems is the literal opposite of sticking your fingers in your ears.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 08:57 |
|
420 Gank Mid posted:the material conflicts between those "different segments of the working class" are caused by white supremacy though They're caused by the global system of capitalism which can be completely color blind when it's convenient. Racism is one way of making people accept the horrible injustice of the system, not the cause of the injustice.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 09:05 |
|
Grevling posted:They're caused by the global system of capitalism which can be completely color blind when it's convenient. Racism is one way of making people accept the horrible injustice of the system, not the cause of the injustice. Neither racism nor capitalism are subordinate to the other but rather feed into each other in perfect symbiosis. Trying to disentangle that Gordian knot is pointless Also white supremacy and chattel slavery were absolutely a foundational cause of capital accumulation necessary for the modern international capitalist system.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 09:55 |
|
420 Gank Mid posted:the material conflicts between those "different segments of the working class" are caused by white supremacy though So, like, if somebody objects to having their job outsourced to a different country where their boss can get away with paying a lower wage, or a union member objects to their boss hiring migrants at less than the union wage, the only basis for those objections is white supremacy? And, let me guess, if they're politically organized enough to get the state to intervene in their favor, that's fascism? I understand now, the true left-wing position is the abolition of unions and labor parties.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 10:01 |
|
PRESIDENT LADYCOP posted:So, like, if somebody objects to having their job outsourced to a different country lmao, hell of a euphemism
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 11:46 |
|
420 Gank Mid posted:lmao, hell of a euphemism I'm gonna level with you, I have no idea if you think the word "outsourced" is dumb or if you think opposing the free movement of capital is racist.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 12:09 |
|
PRESIDENT LADYCOP posted:I'm gonna level with you, I have no idea if you think the word "outsourced" is dumb or if you think opposing the free movement of capital is racist. Human beings are not capital, fascist.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 12:14 |
|
420 Gank Mid posted:Human beings are not capital, fascist. If you think it's racist for organized labor to oppose a corporation closing a factory in one country and re-opening it in another because the cost of labor is cheaper in the latter country, you're the kind of woke neoliberal Nagle is criticizing.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 12:18 |
|
|
# ? May 24, 2024 20:00 |
|
PRESIDENT LADYCOP posted:If you think it's racist for organized labor to oppose a corporation closing a factory in one country and re-opening it in another because the cost of labor is cheaper in the latter country, you're the kind of woke neoliberal Nagle is criticizing. That's not what the chinese exclusion act did you complete moron. You're willfully using lovely euphemisms to paper over your rampant racism with a faux-left veneer. Just like nagle.
|
# ? Jun 23, 2019 12:23 |