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tsob posted:Would an M1 Abrams even be able to defeat 20+ T-70s if it faced them all off in one go? It's not even that much faster going by internet stats. That's pretty much what happened in the Gulf War. Yes it wasn't a "single" Abrams tank, but they outranged the T-72s and heavily outgunned the older T-55 and 62 tanks. The Iraqi tank divisions were slaughtered before getting into range, and relatively few M1s were knocked out.
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Jun 22, 2019 19:10
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Marx Headroom posted:Oh for sure. How cool would it have been if they used GN drives for civilian purposes? The bureaucracy steps in and says "Actually we're taking half of these drives and hooking them up to the power grid to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels." It's a plot point that fossil fuels are becoming irrelevant in AD anyway, thanks to the solar power provided by the orbital elevators doing double duty as solar power batteries and with huge solar power farms in orbit. It's why Azadistan is such a troubled nation; because they have no solar power batteries or farms of their own and aren't part of any massive bloc, so they're reliant on fossil fuels and those are no longer in commercial vogue so Azadistan isn't making any money of it. GN drives wouldn't provide any obvious short term benefit, because all the blocs already had access to lots of clean energy to fuel various civilian ventures as well as using it to power all mobile weapons. Any new uses, like space exploration would take research. GN drives do get used as civilian power sources in the years afterwards though, going by the movie's epilogue. Including as the power source for the first FTL space ship, the Sumeragi. tsob fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Jun 22, 2019 |
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Jun 22, 2019 19:14
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Gripweed posted:Xabungle is low-key Tomino's best show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpoIiK8gk8c
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Jun 22, 2019 21:48
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Marx Headroom posted:Oh for sure. How cool would it have been if they used GN drives for civilian purposes? The bureaucracy steps in and says "Actually we're taking half of these drives and hooking them up to the power grid to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels." The AD setting is post fossil fuels already due to the space elevators providing access to massed solar power. It's why there are giant power blocs to begin with(because solar elevators are extremely expensive and difficult to build so there's consolidation around the ones that exist) and also why Azadistan is hosed from the get go because they were a royal oil state and now no one wants oil. GN Drives would offer little benefit since infinite clean energy is already here and the only restriction is who has access to it. e: gah that's what i get for leaving a reply tab open!
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Jun 23, 2019 01:51
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Also Tau Drives aren't power sources, they just produce GN particles and have to be recharged. The pure Solar Furnaces are pseudo-perpetual engines because they start producing particles and then feed off the contained "dirty" particles generated while the clean GN particles are released.
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Jun 23, 2019 02:31
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Here are way too many words about how GN drives work.
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Jun 23, 2019 03:22
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GN particles really just do whatever
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Jun 23, 2019 08:14
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Solkanar512 posted:Iron Blooded Orphans handled the lower tech thing in a really rad way. IBO's weird on the tech thing, as I think we've discussed before, because in some areas it's quite high tech. Ahab Reactors are really impressive, there's terraformed planets and a well colonized solar system, medical tech is first rate, and Mobile Suits are built ridiculously tough. It's just a host of factors come together to make it feel much more down to Earth. First, of course, is the aesthetic. Giant hammers and maces feel lower tech than lasers, borderline medieval. There's also the way poverty and slavery are highlighted, rather than most of the cast living upper middle class lives. If someone's digging up mines, his life looks a lot more primitive than a guy building a Haro. And last, for now, is the way tech advances. (Something I hadn't really considered until recently, but I think it's a factor.) In most Gundam shows, we get massive leaps multiple times throughout the show, often portrayed as taking just a few months. The standard enemy grunt of episode 1 isn't even cannon fodder by the finale. Meanwhile, in IBO, the Graze is still around for Tekkadan's last rampage. Even the elites in Gjallarhorn can only get a handful of more advanced models, and Teiwaz only just finished their first machine that can outpower a Graze. (And even that gets killed by Grazes.) The Gundams are upgraded as the show goes on, but they're still the same basic machines, with one of the "new" models in season 2 being an unchanged relic from centuries ago. Instead of new and improved, most people stick with old and reliable. Which, again, gives a different feel to things.
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Jun 23, 2019 09:55
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chiasaur11 posted:IBO's weird on the tech thing, as I think we've discussed before, because in some areas it's quite high tech. Ahab Reactors are really impressive, there's terraformed planets and a well colonized solar system, medical tech is first rate, and Mobile Suits are built ridiculously tough. I'm not sure about that last part. IBO has Grazes still around but it's similar in the way to Zakus still being around. IBO falls into the same category as things like Turn-A, G-Reco, Gundam X and other 'Legendary Gundam" shows where the focus isn't on discovering new technology but rediscovering old technology. Even Gundam AGE ended up being about rediscovering old technology via magic 3D printer. Nobody gets beam weapons but that is largely just because of the way the setting works. Instead you get things like the various improvements to the A-V system and other technologies that effectively replace the high powered beam weaponry other series use, like Mika's super tail death whip or whatnot.
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Jun 23, 2019 10:12
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One of IBO's tech advances that goes relatively unnoticed is that the ships have artificial gravity generated by the Ahab reactors, not by a spinning section like the Argama. That feels like a big deal to only be used for a couple of gags with Atra's potatoes. Even magical GN particles can't do that.
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Jun 23, 2019 10:57
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Gundam 40th this year, any new shows announced? I haven't been keeping track.
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Jun 23, 2019 13:00
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ImpAtom posted:I'm not sure about that last part. IBO has Grazes still around but it's similar in the way to Zakus still being around. IBO falls into the same category as things like Turn-A, G-Reco, Gundam X and other 'Legendary Gundam" shows where the focus isn't on discovering new technology but rediscovering old technology. Even Gundam AGE ended up being about rediscovering old technology via magic 3D printer. Though it's not just rediscovering old tech, but reapplying it. Dainsleifs weren't a war-winning superweapon because of what they were, but because Rustal Elion, a smart, savvy dude who also happens to be one of the richest and most powerful people in the solar system, got his hands on them. You can genuinely see why they never quite got off the ground before he started spending the silly amounts of money necessary to mass-produce them.
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Jun 23, 2019 13:03
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Darth Walrus posted:Though it's not just rediscovering old tech, but reapplying it. Dainsleifs weren't a war-winning superweapon because of what they were, but because Rustal Elion, a smart, savvy dude who also happens to be one of the richest and most powerful people in the solar system, got his hands on them. You can genuinely see why they never quite got off the ground before he started spending the silly amounts of money necessary to mass-produce them. They weren't failures, Dainsleifs were just locked away as WMD's with nobody allowed to use them. Seven Stars didn't need that kind of firepower after the Calamity War, and the only real purpose they'd serve is to be used against Seven Stars ships and facilities. Better to stick that tech in a box and let everyone forget about it. More to the point, all we ever saw were MS-portable versions that are probably the equivalent of a Davey Crockett nuclear bazooka. Kinetic weapons can theoretically scale to literal nuke-from-orbit potential, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were BIG shipboard cannon versions during the Calamity War. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Jun 23, 2019 |
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Jun 23, 2019 13:16
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Darth Walrus posted:Though it's not just rediscovering old tech, but reapplying it. Dainsleifs weren't a war-winning superweapon because of what they were, but because Rustal Elion, a smart, savvy dude who also happens to be one of the richest and most powerful people in the solar system, got his hands on them. You can genuinely see why they never quite got off the ground before he started spending the silly amounts of money necessary to mass-produce them. Dainsleifs weren't used because the Seven Stars deliberately made them verboten lost technology because they would let virtually anyone become a serious, credible threat to a government military composed primarily of mobile suits and battleships, both of which are utterly annihilated by Dainsleifs. Rustal's innovation was primarily being able to quickly grasp that the situation with McGillis was so bad that he(Rustal) would be able to get away with breaking the taboo to put down the rebellion.
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Jun 23, 2019 13:20
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Neddy Seagoon posted:They weren't failures, Dainsleifs were just locked away as WMD's with nobody allowed to use them. Seven Stars didn't need that kind of firepower after the Calamity War, and the only real purpose they'd serve is to be used against Seven Stars ships and facilities. Better to stick that tech in a box and let everyone forget about it. I think we can reasonably assume that they weren't what won the Calamity War, though - we only see them used on a single, elite late-war test unit, and it was the Gundams that took the MAs down. That suggests that they weren't used to their full potential, because once you've successfully mass-produced Dainsleif launchers, you really don't need much else. On the other hand, you can totally see why someone wouldn't mass-produce Dainsleif launchers - their individual performance is situationally useful, but they're big, cumbersome, slow-firing weapons that require vast amounts of power and vast amounts of rare, expensive materials to work.
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Jun 23, 2019 13:23
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Darth Walrus posted:I think we can reasonably assume that they weren't what won the Calamity War, though - we only see them used on a single, elite late-war test unit, and it was the Gundams that took the MAs down. That suggests that they weren't used to their full potential, because once you've successfully mass-produced Dainsleif launchers, you really don't need much else. On the other hand, you can totally see why someone wouldn't mass-produce Dainsleif launchers - their individual performance is situationally useful, but they're big, cumbersome, slow-firing weapons that require vast amounts of power and vast amounts of rare, expensive materials to work. They're portable enough to be wielded by a standardized mobile suit, and power is a non-issue when mobile suits (and ships of any scale) already have a perpetual-energy reactor. Considering what they did to two Gundams from orbit who were going ham in full "KILL YOUR MA PREY" mode, it's not unreasonable to guess that the Calamity War might well have ended the same way. Gundams did the work as Ace combatants for most of the war, Dainsleifs just finished the job with mass-production.
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Jun 23, 2019 13:39
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Kingtheninja posted:Gundam 40th this year, any new shows announced? I haven't been keeping track. The Origin TV cut, Hathaway's Flash movie, Unicorn 2, SD Gundam World Sangoku Soketsuden
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Jun 23, 2019 13:43
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Neddy Seagoon posted:They're portable enough to be wielded by a standardized mobile suit, and power is a non-issue when mobile suits (and ships of any scale) already have a perpetual-energy reactor. Considering what they did to two Gundams from orbit who were going ham in full "KILL YOUR MA PREY" mode, it's not unreasonable to guess that the Calamity War might well have ended the same way. Gundams did the work as Ace combatants for most of the war, Dainsleifs just finished the job with mass-production. What we see of them suggests that they're not actually that useful in one-on-one combat, though. Again, they seem like a complete nightmare to aim and take ages to reload, and both mobile suits and mobile armours are exceptionally agile. You can only really get proper results with them by either (a) firing against large, slow-moving targets, or (b) bringing a few dozen of your mates along to ensure there's nowhere a faster target can dodge to, and that you're not completely hosed when you have to take a minute-long time-out to reload. Also, Ahab reactors themselves are not exactly cheap and easy to build - simply needing one to power a gun makes that gun much more difficult to mass-produce than, say, a big conventional howitzer.
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Jun 23, 2019 13:54
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The difference is that big, conventional howitzers do precisely gently caress all against nanolaminate while Dainsleifs cut through it like butter. The conventional guns being used by most of the MS in IBO are absolutely titanic in caliber - the Lupus's lovely wrist guns are loving 200mm cannons, Grazes use 120mm rifles and 380mm bazookas - and yet are largely completely unable to inflict any damage on a hard target outside of quite literally point blank range. Conventional weapons make a lot more sense when you're talking in terms of asymmetric warfare, i.e. Gjallarhorn stomping on dissidents using mobile workers and the like, but in MS on MS combat their standard suite of conventional ranged weapons were largely useless. Dainsleifs aren't a perfect weapon with no flaws, but it seems pretty clear that the reason they stopped being used wasn't a matter of no one knowing how to use them. If no one knew how dangerous they could be they wouldn't have bothered to ban them in the first place.
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Jun 23, 2019 14:04
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Gripweed posted:The Origin TV cut, Hathaway's Flash movie, Unicorn 2, SD Gundam World Sangoku Soketsuden Unicorn 2 meaning Narrative or a full sequel series?
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Jun 23, 2019 14:11
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Arcsquad12 posted:Unicorn 2 meaning Narrative or a full sequel series? Full sequel series.
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Jun 23, 2019 14:15
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Well that doesn't sound particularly exciting. At this point I wish they'd just bite the bullet and do a full reboot of F91 or go straight to Crossbone instead of repeating EVEN SO for another seven hours.
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Jun 23, 2019 14:33
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Arcsquad12 posted:Well that doesn't sound particularly exciting. At this point I wish they'd just bite the bullet and do a full reboot of F91 or go straight to Crossbone instead of repeating EVEN SO for another seven hours. Early UC is where their bread is buttered best, so they're reluctant to abandon it. I'm surprised we haven't had some kind of inkling of further Origin adaptation, as in just doing the whole drat thing, come to think of it.
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Jun 23, 2019 14:43
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Darth Walrus posted:What we see of them suggests that they're not actually that useful in one-on-one combat, though. Again, they seem like a complete nightmare to aim and take ages to reload, and both mobile suits and mobile armours are exceptionally agile. You can only really get proper results with them by either (a) firing against large, slow-moving targets, or (b) bringing a few dozen of your mates along to ensure there's nowhere a faster target can dodge to, and that you're not completely hosed when you have to take a minute-long time-out to reload. Also, Ahab reactors themselves are not exactly cheap and easy to build - simply needing one to power a gun makes that gun much more difficult to mass-produce than, say, a big conventional howitzer. What we see of them is a single MS-portable weapon model. It's like saying guns are ineffective against people compared to swords because all you've seen is a bolt-action rifle. Nevermind that we've actually seen them kill something on par with a Mobile Armor. Two targets that were far smaller than a Mobile Armor in fact, from orbit, and they went down clean to a bunch of grunt soldiers with mass-produced weapons. The only reason they seemed rare early on was because the handful seen were 330-year-old relics from the Calamity War kept in storage. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jun 23, 2019 |
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Jun 23, 2019 15:02
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Arcsquad12 posted:Well that doesn't sound particularly exciting. At this point I wish they'd just bite the bullet and do a full reboot of F91 or go straight to Crossbone instead of repeating EVEN SO for another seven hours. They've said it's going to be a Western style TV drama. So it's going to be different in some way
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Jun 23, 2019 16:11
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Gripweed posted:They've said it's going to be a Western style TV drama. So it's going to be different in some way Though who knows how different things are going to be in practice. As for F91 they've set out a timeline for doing further and further down the pre-F91 UC timeline. Maybe they'll eventually get there. Or maybe they'll get right up till UC and then do Gundam the Origin style remakes of literally every early UC show starting with Gundam 0080 The Origin.
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Jun 23, 2019 17:33
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Tomino will finally get greenlit for a 50 episode F91 remake and then have it get unceremoniously canned so Sunrise can make 0083: Rebellion.
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Jun 23, 2019 17:44
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It’s called UC Next 100 but it goes from the years 0097 to 0104. And I think technically the 40th anniversary includes the TV version of Origin, the G-reco movie, and SD Romance of the 3 Kingdoms. Hathaway’s Flash might be under both banners, funnily enough.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:18
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SD Gundam World Sangoku Soketsuden starts next month btw
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Jun 23, 2019 18:20
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Something I noticed while watching the Origin movies with a friend who has no experience with Gundam is just how little explanation is given to you about the world. Going by the first movie, it doesn't really give you much of an explanation about the Earth Federation, about Spacenoids or why they're in colonies, about what the Federation does to Spacenoids or why Deikun wants independence for Side 3. The OVAs really rely on you to be a Gundam fan to get what's going on. It's kind of why I'm worried about the TV series version of the OVAs that'll air on Toonami might turn off viewers who don't know much about the UC.
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Jun 23, 2019 20:35
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The opening narration of 0079 should be required viewing for any person watching any Gundam show.
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Jun 23, 2019 20:44
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Arcsquad12 posted:The opening narration of 0079 should be required viewing for any person watching any Gundam show. I don't think it would be that much help in understanding G Gundam.
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Jun 23, 2019 21:18
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Arcsquad12 posted:0079 (TV) should be required viewing for any person watching any Gundam show.
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Jun 23, 2019 21:24
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amigolupus posted:Something I noticed while watching the Origin movies with a friend who has no experience with Gundam is just how little explanation is given to you about the world. Going by the first movie, it doesn't really give you much of an explanation about the Earth Federation, about Spacenoids or why they're in colonies, about what the Federation does to Spacenoids or why Deikun wants independence for Side 3. They're gonna air it at 3 AM so nobody is gonna watch it anyway
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Jun 23, 2019 21:39
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chiasaur11 posted:I don't think it would be that much help in understanding G Gundam. You don't need much help understanding G Gundam to begin with. Robots use Earth as an arena and people on the ground who don't live in the country colonies hate getting stomped on. Also all this becomes irrelevant before the show is half over.
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Jun 23, 2019 21:55
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I mean Stalker is there to fill in any background info you might need.
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Jun 23, 2019 22:16
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Arcsquad12 posted:Robots use Earth as an arena and people on the ground who don't live in the country colonies hate getting stomped on. This is explained within literally the first ten minutes of the first episode, too.
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Jun 23, 2019 22:19
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amigolupus posted:Something I noticed while watching the Origin movies with a friend who has no experience with Gundam is just how little explanation is given to you about the world. Going by the first movie, it doesn't really give you much of an explanation about the Earth Federation, about Spacenoids or why they're in colonies, about what the Federation does to Spacenoids or why Deikun wants independence for Side 3. The OVA's just kind of assume you're already familiar with the First Gundam story, something the manga very much goes out of its way not to do. It's unfaithful fidelity.
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Jun 23, 2019 23:08
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Reminder that Gundam the Origin's manga is pretty great.
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Jun 24, 2019 00:34
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I love how Zeon Deikun, who in the anime is depicted as space jesus, is, in the origin, a guy who thinks he's space jesus. He may have just been a guy who worked himself to death, since you know, he was ranting and raving and hadn't slept for days prior to his death. Really, to propose something like the newtype theory you have to be kinda nuts. Plus he wasn't a peacenik at all, which is a nice touch. He was a religious zealot and that adds way more to the character. The manga's ambiguous to how much the zabi's were involved in char's upbringing is really neat. We see there's some justification for it- they're following him when they leave the colony, but it does seem like they left him alone as long as he was staying put. So Char may have just beaten up this random dude in the bar due to the suspicion of him being followed. I'm annoyed that Char was so heavily involved with some parts of history, like allowing Revil to escape, but all-in-all the takes the Origin has are really good. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 01:15
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