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What a shame that Assad explicitly targetted the moderate opposition forces in order to strengthen the Islamists so that regime apologists can then lament their barbarism in justification of Assad's own.
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Jun 24, 2019 22:38
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I do wonder how much of the rise of Islamist military in Syria and Iraq boiled down to those groups being able to field better infantry than the competing insurgents. Infantry seems to be the big deciding factor in wars like this.
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Jun 25, 2019 00:13
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Haystack posted:I do wonder how much of the rise of Islamist military in Syria and Iraq boiled down to those groups being able to field better infantry than the competing insurgents. Infantry seems to be the big deciding factor in wars like this. There's lots of chicken and and egg questions here. Did a strong armed force allow ISIS to spread its ideology? Or did the ideology of ISIS allow them to grow a strong armed force? In short though, they were better at fighting than most of their competitors.
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Jun 25, 2019 00:51
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Unimpressed posted:What a shame that Assad explicitly targetted the moderate opposition forces in order to strengthen the Islamists so that regime apologists can then lament their barbarism in justification of Assad's own. I seriously hope this is a joke post.
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Jun 25, 2019 01:46
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Frond posted:I seriously hope this is a joke post. it is a correct assessment of early Team Assad strategy
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Jun 25, 2019 02:18
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It has 0 basis in reality.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:38
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His strongest opponents were always Islamists.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:39
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His post was absolutely 100% accurate and your perception of reality validates Assad’s strategy. Regardless of their military power or effectiveness, moderate groups were always eliminated while extremist groups were allowed to live.
Mozi fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jun 25, 2019 |
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Jun 25, 2019 02:43
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dream9!bed!! posted:There's like 100 proud boys There are tens of thousands.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:25
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Doesn't that make sense though? The moderate rebels were receiving aid from the West and looked poised to usurp Assad. No one would have tolerated the extremist groups taking power, but the moderates could have taken control and been recognized as legitimate.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:30
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Sergg posted:There are tens of thousands. It's estimated that there are about 6,000 members, actually. They'd sure like you to think there's tens of thousands, though.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:34
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Assad did prioritize secular rebel groups for 3 reasons. 1) Secular/nationalist rebels like the FSA tended to be mostly urban and took over the areas closest to Syria's coastline and it's most strategically important cities, and early on in the conflict they were better armed since they were primarily formed from defecting SAA units. 2) ISIS was mostly killing other rebels in lesser populated areas until Assad suffered a major PR disaster when ISIS massacred the garrison of Taqba Airbase and posted the videos all over the internet. 3) Assad knew that Western countries would never allow a group like ISIS to take over Iraq or Syria and that the US would intervene at some point, especially if ISIS provoked the US with public beheadings of US journalists. This is why Assad handed US journalist, James Foley, over to ISIS. They knew he would be publicly beheaded and the US would be provoked to intervene against ISIS. It was only later on that we discovered he had been initially captured by the Syrian government and was held in a Damascus prison run by Syrian Air Force Intelligence. Deteriorata posted:It's estimated that there are about 6,000 members, actually. They'd sure like you to think there's tens of thousands, though. There are about 20,000. Your article is from 2 years ago and they were actively recruiting through Facebook until a few months ago. Sergg fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jun 25, 2019 |
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Jun 25, 2019 03:41
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The Proud Boys are essentially an umbrella group where people are vetted and Neo-Nazi groups like NSM, Identity Europa, Aryan Nations, and all the splitters from ex-National Front used the Proud Boys as a feeder organization to filter recruits down to them who had already been vetted. Neo-Nazis use MRA groups as recruiting grounds because they play upon many of the same psychological issues and they run in the same circles where many people are self-radicalized like 4chan, 8chan, Voat, and Gab.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:50
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Sergg posted:
I stopped following this poo poo some time ago because it was so exceptionally awful, so I guess I missed this whole development. How exceptionally awful! I wish all of those US tax dollars had gone to a good cause, like dropping a giant bomb on Assad.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:54
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Frond posted:It has 0 basis in reality. If you search this thread and it's previous iterations there were a significant number of posts examining the policy and it's potential benefits / reasons. Kawasaki Nun fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jun 25, 2019 |
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Jun 25, 2019 04:32
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the other big one is that the moderate (read: not openly in it for faith) groups were relatively easy pickings due to being a bunch of smaller groups, none of which agreed with one another about anything, whereas the Saudi/American exports did an excellent job of subsuming any lesser groups who were in it for the glory of God. not helping the cause was the ongoing-to-this-day issue of the Pentagon and CIA not being able to decide which Moderates (tm) were going to be America's horse in this race, and so getting their respective catspaws to fight one another in the world's most inhuman Pokemon knockoff Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jun 25, 2019 |
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Jun 25, 2019 05:02
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Frond posted:I seriously hope this is a joke post. As do I of yours. Assad, right from the start, looked to position himself as the defender of secularism and minorities even as he butchered his own people by the thousands. He targetted secular opposition groups and was defacto allied with ISIS in the early months enabling him and Russia to trade in the anti Islamist currency. A currency you're obviously heavily invested in. The current state of the opposition being dominated by Muslim extremists was the outcome he sought and achieved.
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Jun 25, 2019 05:28
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Assad objectively did use ISIS to squeeze the moderate rebels, and ISIS more or less went along with it because both sides rationally concluded that significant outside groups couldn't possibly support the other, while the moderates were soft targets with massive potential to grow in strength if they gained outside support (and the other jihadist groups ISIS targeted threatened their legitimacy). Something being rational doesn't make it commendable of course, though cynicism also influenced Israel's policy, as they allowed both Al Qaeda and ISIS to control territory on their border unmolested for years (while freaking out if they see an Iranian anywhere in southern Syria), and of course Turkey's, as they allowed ISIS free use of their territory for recruitment for quite some time to use them against the Kurds. FWIW, there was a paper a year or two ago discussing why extremists tend to become dominant members of rebel factions in lengthy civil wars because their perceived ideological purity makes potential members see them as more trustworthy and less corrupt. ISIS also clearly used its high morale as a force multiplier, to an insane extent at times in Iraq, where (for example) a force of 1500 or less captured Mosul from 30,000 Iraqi soldiers backed by 30,000 police.
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Jun 25, 2019 12:23
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Sergg posted:The Proud Boys are essentially an umbrella group where people are vetted and Neo-Nazi groups like NSM, Identity Europa, Aryan Nations, and all the splitters from ex-National Front used the Proud Boys as a feeder organization to filter recruits down to them who had already been vetted. Neo-Nazis use MRA groups as recruiting grounds because they play upon many of the same psychological issues and they run in the same circles where many people are self-radicalized like 4chan, 8chan, Voat, and Gab.
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Jun 25, 2019 17:32
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Sinteres posted:Assad objectively did use ISIS to squeeze the moderate rebels, and ISIS more or less went along with it because both sides rationally concluded that significant outside groups couldn't possibly support the other, while the moderates were soft targets with massive potential to grow in strength if they gained outside support (and the other jihadist groups ISIS targeted threatened their legitimacy). Something being rational doesn't make it commendable of course, though cynicism also influenced Israel's policy, as they allowed both Al Qaeda and ISIS to control territory on their border unmolested for years (while freaking out if they see an Iranian anywhere in southern Syria), and of course Turkey's, as they allowed ISIS free use of their territory for recruitment for quite some time to use them against the Kurds. ISIS in particular also got to tap a lot of very relevant combat experience, what with the Iraqui Sunnis and Chechnyans and whatnot. Other factions didn't really have that, apart from, well, the Kurds. That, and ISIS managed to literally weaponize their huge influx of angry young failsons. Those were pretty huge competitive advantages.
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Jun 25, 2019 17:34
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double nine posted:so how much of a self-own was the "cyber-attack"? seems to me that warning the iranians that their defense systems are vulnerable will lead them to plug those security flaws for when/if the warmongers succeed in getting their war with iran? Assuming the cyber attack actually happened. I mean, we only have the US's word that it did.
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Jun 25, 2019 18:52
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Cat Mattress posted:It's like, "okay, Trump set the house on fire, but at the last minute he didn't decide to lock the dog in, because he was afraid of going back into the burning house with it, so hurray for Trump saving the dog! From the murder he was planning! The house is still on fire, mind." Property damage is a step up from the US' usual MO.
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Jun 25, 2019 19:24
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Saladin Rising posted:My brain didn't even register that this post wasn't talking about ISIS or another militant group in Syria until like halfway through. Goddrat those parallels are creepy. I'm sure their intense training regimen of harassing women over the internet and masturbating in loneliness will make them an equally terrifying force.
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Jun 25, 2019 19:47
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CrazyLoon posted:I'm sure their intense training regimen of harassing women over the internet and masturbating in loneliness will make them an equally terrifying force. We talking about the Proud Boys or ISIS here?
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Jun 25, 2019 19:57
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Darth Walrus posted:We talking about the Proud Boys or ISIS here? Does masturbating in the Chechen mountains count as altitude training?
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Jun 25, 2019 20:02
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I'm pretty sure that's goatfucking.
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Jun 25, 2019 20:06
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Does masturbating in the Chechen mountains count as altitude training? Heavy breathing and beating
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Jun 25, 2019 21:05
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Unimpressed posted:What a shame that Assad explicitly targetted the moderate opposition forces in order to strengthen the Islamists so that regime apologists can then lament their barbarism in justification of Assad's own. who is justifying assad's barbarism
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Jun 25, 2019 21:35
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I follow Ramzan Kadyrov on Instagram, it's great if you want to watch a never ending litany of Ramzan and his buddies in tailored matching camouflage track suits firing AKs out of the sunroof of his G-wagen. ANyway I think RT was reporting that there was some kind of ISIS assasination attempt on him. The assassin was easily noticed by one of the numerous heavily armed men just strolling around the streets of Grozny on any given day and subdued.
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Jun 25, 2019 23:12
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I would very much not want to be someone captured alive in a failed attempt on Kadyrov's life That said there are a lot of people and factions who would love to see him dead and holy gently caress would it shake up the whole RF as he is very explicitly the devil's bargain Putin made for something akin to peace and stability in chechnya. Like neither word describes the situation, but it's favorable compared to an ongoing Chechen war quagmire generating non-stop war crimes and bad headlines and dead russian soldiers Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jun 25, 2019 |
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Jun 25, 2019 23:54
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gh0stpinballa posted:who is justifying assad's barbarism No barbarism to justify. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 26, 2019 05:08
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:No barbarism to justify. I think one particular forums poster might disagree with you on that point from personal experience.
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Jun 26, 2019 05:29
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:No barbarism to justify. 
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Jun 26, 2019 07:28
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Rust Martialis posted:I think one particular forums poster might disagree with you on that point from personal experience. Mercenary 'journalist' who had a history of fighting for Libyan terrorists uses a terrorist crossing from Turkey and ends up in prison. What needs to be justified?
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Jun 26, 2019 09:33
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Mercenary 'journalist' who had a history of fighting for Libyan terrorists uses a terrorist crossing from Turkey and ends up in prison. What needs to be justified? Being left to die of starvation in a cold and damp cell is what you call a prison. Really?
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Jun 26, 2019 15:08
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:No barbarism to justify. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xENU7QxTzS0
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Jun 26, 2019 15:39
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Don't engage him. He is likely to respond similar to these comments from that video quote:gently caress this false flag bs evil helmets! I hope Syria rescues the children from you and then drops a bomb on the film crews, the evil helmet terrorist and then exports the kids to Russia for adoption where they'll grow up with great education. quote:Bit late to be hosing them down when they've already picked up the bodies with their bare hands. This is a totally staged farce. These are the victims from Adra that have brutally been killed by Jaish Al Islam to stage this false flag to blame Assad, to cause western outcry so as the US have reason to bomb Syria and to destroy incriminating evidence of US involvement in supporting terrorism.
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Jun 26, 2019 16:04
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Hajotus Maximus posted:Being left to die of starvation in a cold and damp cell is what you call a prison. Really? Yes? Have you seen Yank prisons? Randarkman posted:Don't engage him. Her, thanks.
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Jun 26, 2019 16:35
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Lol if you think prisons in America (which suck) are as bad as what Caro was in.
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Jun 26, 2019 16:52
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Yes? Have you seen Yank prisons? 
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Jun 26, 2019 16:59
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