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cities skylines is an ok early-midgame city-builder but once you need mass transit it's kind of a nightmare because it's a lot of work up front laying out every single route/stop manually, it breaks badly and is hard to fix if you make minor changes to the roads, and to get it working optimally in a huge city you really have to abandon any intuitive sense of how it should work and read a nerd's 20 page wiki treatise on exactly how to lay out and fund all your subway/bus lines. And just forget about trains, because the moment you try to use them heavily they'll poo poo the bed and hardlock your entire rail system across the region, causing trains full of imports and exports to despawn
poverty goat fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Jun 28, 2019 |
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Jun 28, 2019 14:19
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The frustrating thing is, up until the traffic nightmares start cropping up, the game is incredibly chill as far as city-builders go. I never felt much pressure and even took the time to hand-draw some cool highway interchanges, etc. But once traffic becomes a priority, it's basically your top priority, and it just makes the game less a relaxing SimCity game and more a frenetic traffic simulator.
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Jun 28, 2019 14:25
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I think it falls into the same category as Planet Coaster. A great idea, but too much focus on ultra-micro-managing and less on enjoying the overall experience, to the point where in the end it only really appeals to detail fanatics. I'm kind of hoping Planet Zoo doesn't fall into this same trap and strikes a happy medium between the banal and limited management of Jurassic World Evolution, and the insane "place every pebble" style of Planet Coaster. Well, that and actual having a management and goal system that isn't complete perfunctory as well. Not placing any bets on that game yet though.
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Jun 28, 2019 14:53
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Agent-based citybuilders are kind of a trap in general because they inevitably turn into hectic traffic simulators, often with interfaces that don't scale nearly well enough for it.
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Jun 28, 2019 15:03
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Like, I definitely appreciate the concept of "Industrial zones make A Thing that then gets moved to and sold in Commercial zones and god help you if they need to go through Residential areas" but the reality of it ends up being that there's essentially One Specific Way to design your cities if you want traffic to flow reasonably through it. Plus if your Industrial isn't producing enough for even a day, you then also need to worry about trucks coming off the highways with imported goods. Also connecting off/onramps is a loving nightmare, I dunno why the road building system always has such a fit but I hate it.
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Jun 28, 2019 15:08
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:I think it falls into the same category as Planet Coaster. A great idea, but too much focus on ultra-micro-managing and less on enjoying the overall experience, to the point where in the end it only really appeals to detail fanatics. I think the issue is 'place every pebble' becomes the standard because tycoon games don't get actual budgets anymore, but they're still made by nerds obsessed with a crazy level of detail, so you don't get decent random generators or a reasonable level of scope.
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Jun 28, 2019 15:15
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I just really don't mind abstraction, Simcity 4 let you design gigantic cities and regions including agricultural areas and scenic nature places and while it's not perfect, the traffic simulation does the job and feels plausible enough. It also has more pleasing graphics than the comparatively gaudy Skylines with its bland expanses of perfectly green grass.
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Jun 28, 2019 16:04
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all of these games just need a system like governors in stellaris, where at a certain point your scope is above the day to day triumphs and tribulations of traffic planning and you can delegate it to your traffic advisor who will do a good enough job with some cheats under the hood if necessary that you won't have to involve yourself in the planning of every bus stop to make your city work unless you really want to do it e: i also wish you could delegate the late-conquest planet-hopping in stellaris to your admirals/generals
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Jun 28, 2019 17:30
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Maybe I never made a big enough city but jamming subways and bike lanes everywhere seemed to work fine. Only ever do the smallest roads and if there's a little traffic well that's their own dumb fault for driving.
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Jun 28, 2019 19:15
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Snow Cone Capone posted:But once traffic becomes a priority, it's basically your top priority, and it just makes the game less a relaxing SimCity game and more a frenetic traffic simulator. that's because this is all cities: skylines was ever supposed to be. sc3k supremacy, traffic is an abstraction of average daily density and the only individual vehicles that are ever simulated in real time are emergency services poverty goat posted:e: i also wish you could delegate the late-conquest planet-hopping in stellaris to your admirals/generals you used to be able to do this in the early nobunaga's ambition games and let me tell you delegated AI generals are more vicious, insane, and greedy than the most warmongery human player. you delegate it once and the game is won in eight turns, tops Fur20 fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jun 28, 2019 |
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Jun 28, 2019 20:09
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I kind of get why some people prefer SC3K over 4 but come on 4 was pretty incredible, with that giant rear end region view where you could build a small country.
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Jun 28, 2019 20:47
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yeah 4 was really cool. i accidentally terraformed my region though and carved out part of a mountain that was shared over four adjoining city tiles and the hosed up visual aesthetic bugged me forever after that
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Jun 28, 2019 20:57
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The White Dragon posted:yeah 4 was really cool. i accidentally terraformed my region though and carved out part of a mountain that was shared over four adjoining city tiles and the hosed up visual aesthetic bugged me forever after that There was a "align terrain with neighbors" button but yeah it didn't work well on corners if the neighbors were at totally different levels. My favorite region in 4 was a snowy Scandinavian style place with big fjords where I would build small villages connected by rail, that's something you could never do in Skylines, where every city just looks like San Francisco.
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Jun 28, 2019 21:12
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I, uh, liked SimCity 5. At least once I realized what they we're trying to do the gameplay just clicked for me. EA shot themselves in the foot forcing Maxis to lie and claim it was a main series reboot, it's a gaiden game hyperfocused on online collaboration (or region management after the offline patch). You're supposed to think about the whole region the way you would think about your single city in 3k/4, specialize each lot in one thing and share resources between them. The futurist expansion also changes up the gameplay loop and has a nice Papers, Please-style "making a point through gameplay" mechanic where it's really hard not to make your community one of the many arms of a global corporate dystopia
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Jun 28, 2019 22:01
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everyone knows the only reason to ever play EA City was to build an unpowered ghetto with no jobs, set taxes to 0, and unleash your unwashed hordes on your neighbors, destroying their safety, health, and happiness ratings and decaying their cities into unpowered ghettoes
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Jun 28, 2019 22:43
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The White Dragon posted:everyone knows the only reason to ever play EA City was to build an unpowered ghetto with no jobs, set taxes to 0, and unleash your unwashed hordes on your neighbors, destroying their safety, health, and happiness ratings and decaying their cities into unpowered ghettoes lmao I remember someone here did a nice elaborate writeup of this, I wish I could find it again.
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Jun 28, 2019 22:49
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Snow Cone Capone posted:lmao I remember someone here did a nice elaborate writeup of this, I wish I could find it again. I posted about it previously in this thread. Not sure if you referencing that or someone else, because I'm sure others have covered it in more detail. But here it is... Chomp8645 posted:If you don't know, the SimCity 2013 online gimmick was mandatory, and I don't think they had private regions at first. One of the online gimmicks was that, if you had bus depots, your citizens could travel to other player's cities for work... or to look for work.
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Jun 29, 2019 00:37
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Yep, that's the one, thank you!
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Jun 29, 2019 01:20
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just finished gris can't stop crying what should i do goons
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Jun 29, 2019 04:27
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Should I finish Gris? I played it for about 30 minutes and thought it was really boring.
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Jun 29, 2019 04:39
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Telebite posted:just finished gris maybe you should play a good game next time, like pokemon mystery dungeon explorers of sky
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Jun 29, 2019 04:41
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veni veni veni posted:Should I finish Gris? I played it for about 30 minutes and thought it was really boring. Don't know what that is but if it's boring don't play it.
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Jun 29, 2019 05:07
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The White Dragon posted:i had a college roommate who, he was a chill guy but he was part of a fairly serious raiding guild on an RP server during the onyxia era and i tell you the drama within his own guild was more gripping than an episode of maury with four belligerent potential dads who insist the kid can't possibly be theirs. and sometimes more shocking than finding out that none of them in fact is the father I like Eve Online drama. I do not like Eve Online.
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Jun 29, 2019 05:37
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The White Dragon posted:maybe you should play a good game next time, like pokemon mystery dungeon explorers of sky
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Jun 29, 2019 06:46
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just an expanded version. but it does have an epilogue for grovyle's story, and you can play as bidoof getting 5000 pokemon dollars from his mother
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Jun 29, 2019 06:51
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Yep, that's the one, thank you! Made me laugh just as hard as the first time, hahaha
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Jun 29, 2019 18:06
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Gaming is just another destructive medium most "gamers" use to escape their own mediocrity problems. Gaming enables toxic escapism.
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Jun 29, 2019 19:28
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Foul Ole Ron posted:Gaming is just another destructive medium most "gamers" use to escape their own mediocrity problems.
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Jun 29, 2019 19:29
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poverty goat posted:much like your posts Pff, I'm a poo poo poster even when I game. I own my utter lack of worth.
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Jun 29, 2019 19:35
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It is possible to enjoy gaming responsibly in moderation
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Jun 29, 2019 20:20
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fridge corn posted:It is possible to enjoy gaming responsibly in moderation Whoa whoa whoa. Hold on. Let's not say anything we can't take back here.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:47
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Escapism is good.
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Jun 29, 2019 20:55
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fridge corn posted:It is possible to enjoy gaming responsibly in moderation It's possible but it mostly does not happen.
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Jun 29, 2019 21:10
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Shibawanko posted:Escapism is good. I had this crazy film professor who insisted that all escapist media was worthless. He had a meltdown when Return of the King won the Oscar for best movie lol
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Jun 29, 2019 22:04
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is pepsi ok posted:I had this crazy film professor who insisted that all escapist media was worthless. He had a meltdown when Return of the King won the Oscar for best movie lol I bet Crash gave him a stroke, or at least it should have
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Jun 30, 2019 06:18
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Interesting to hear his correct opinions about escapist media, but what did he do that was crazy?
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Jun 30, 2019 11:23
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Why would anyone want to actually enjoy entertainment when you can just watch Stan Brakhage films and get high off smelling your own farts
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Jun 30, 2019 18:20
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Most of the popular levels on level makers like Megaman Maker or Mario Maker are bad and don't really take advantage of the different elements in a harmonious way. Why does everything have to turn into a puzzle platformer, lazy auto-playing level or kaizo? It's hard to find a real, normal level that creatively uses elements in the way an actual level designer would do. Like, the joy of playing Megaman is in jumping around and shooting motherfuckers while dealing with obstacles. It's not about navigating a stupid rear end teleporter maze like 90% of the levels in the editor. Most people also never use basic priming techniques, like showing an enemy in an easy location so you can throw more of them at the player in more difficult situations later on. Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jul 1, 2019 |
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Jul 1, 2019 17:56
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I want a level that is nothing but dicks and vaginas
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Jul 1, 2019 18:02
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Shibawanko posted:Most of the popular levels on level makers like Megaman Maker or Mario Maker are bad and don't really take advantage of the different elements in a harmonious way. Why does everything have to turn into a puzzle platformer, lazy auto-playing level or kaizo? It's hard to find a real, normal level that creatively uses elements in the way an actual level designer would do. Mario Maker 2 addresses this pretty well. I can't find screenshots but the level maker tutorial specifically addresses things like "surprise deaths are no fun for anyone" and "don't build your level so that a single block broken accidentally forces you to restart" and the like.
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Jul 1, 2019 18:08
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