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After hearing a lot of misgivings and memes about the end of Part 5 being a mess and King Crimson being a dumb stand, I think especially the latter was overblown a bit. KC is overpowered but its usage feels pretty consistent and as far as the big bad's stands go I'd put it above The World which got obsoleted almost immediately by Jotaro. So far there has not been anything nearly as stupid as the litany of things Gold Experience has done throughout the Part. As for the endgame here, it's weird but more in the sense that we should be seeing the culmination of the conflict between Bruno's group and Diavolo and weirdly even though that is what is literally happening it doesn't feel like it is actually working for that conflict. It's more like just a coincidence that got tied up into the Arrow nonsense. I've said it before but it was a huge misstep in my opinion to structure the Part's arcs the way they are. It SHOULD have been about Bruno and his cohorts trying to work within the organization to undermine it, with the betrayal coming way later. I figured the Stand battles would be between rival gangs or whatever. I'd just as soon excise the whole arrow storyline for something more like The Departed, JoJo-edition. E: Also noticed that in the above I only mention Bruno, and well that's another problem. Giorno still sucks a lot I didn't even think about him as part of the main focus of the group.
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Jun 30, 2019 13:04
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A missed opportunity in Part 5 is that the mafia theme isn’t given enough emphasis. I hesitate to criticize the work for not being something that it isn’t, rather than for what it is, but I keep coming back to it. The character designs are super strong, maybe the strongest Jojo has had so far, but it’s weird that the only character in the entire show to look like a mafioso is the dude in Giorno’s flashback. It seems suited for a darker theme than preceding parts, which while horror-influenced are fairly lighthearted. These characters are anti-heroes, but it’s handled so sporadically (torture dance, beating a passerby “just in case,” mista shooting a cop and shrugging it off) that it feels humorously at-odds with their characterization rather than in keeping with it. That seems like a more natural way to build on Giorno being a child of Dio, as well. Part 5 has the core of a strong narrative: Giorno, who (though he may not be aware of it) wants to destroy the order of the mafia, needs to enter it, and has to enlist the aif of Bruno, who feels an intense loyalty to the mafia that will put him at odds with his convictions and sense of justice. But instead of having a plot that utilizes the organization and practices of the mafia in any meaningful way, we get a pretty close mirror of part 3. Part 5 really isn’t a crime story in any fashion, and that seems like a lost opportunity to me.
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Jun 30, 2019 14:57
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you have to understand that araki just really likes italy
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Jun 30, 2019 15:45
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I always argue that Doppio is Diavolo (and KC too), and shouldn't really be seaprated in judging the character. This is the only piece of fiction where I see people separate the split sides of a split personality like this; people dont do it with Norman Bates or Hulk or the Ventriliquist or Two Face, etc. fake edit: maybe not the only, they do it with Tyler Durden and The Narrator too, I guess.
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Jun 30, 2019 15:51
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they're literally two different souls also don't a lot Hulk storylines get pretty deep into "Bruce Banner and the Hulk are two different people" territory?
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Jun 30, 2019 15:54
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two different souls that have been in the same body since birth. i totally get considering them the same character. when we see doppio murder the priest, he's not in Diavolo Mode, we have no idea when Diavolo started talking to him or when he was able to start changing his shape i liked the interpretation someone had a page or so ago if diavolo being the devil inside doppio, giving doppio great power (king crimson) when he needs it. it's not really textual, but it's fun
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Jun 30, 2019 15:59
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Darko posted:I always argue that Doppio is Diavolo (and KC too), and shouldn't really be seaprated in judging the character. This is the only piece of fiction where I see people separate the split sides of a split personality like this; people dont do it with Norman Bates or Hulk or the Ventriliquist or Two Face, etc. People absolutely think of The Hulk and Bruce Banner as separate entities, what are you talking about?
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Jun 30, 2019 16:01
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Expect My Mom posted:two different souls that have been in the same body since birth. i totally get considering them the same character. when we see doppio murder the priest, he's not in Diavolo Mode, we have no idea when Diavolo started talking to him or when he was able to start changing his shape It does play to more of the their Rosemary's Baby or any demon possession movie-inspired backstory, doesn't it. 
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Jun 30, 2019 16:14
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:they're literally two different souls The Hulk has generally always been part of Bruce with most writers, just like Hyde was always a part of Jekyll. He's the ID with Banner being the superego. edit: They're only two different souls because souls exist in JoJos. They've literally been explained as a split personality two episodes ago and work like Hulk/Banner, Jekyll/Hyde, Durden/Narrator and every single other one in fiction. Arist posted:People absolutely think of The Hulk and Bruce Banner as separate entities, what are you talking about? I'm saying nobody goes, "I didn't like Banner in <insert Hulk arc> because I thought he was weak and he barely showed up, but The Hulk was fun." Darko fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jun 30, 2019 |
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Jun 30, 2019 16:15
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The latest ep shows that Doppio himself both knew the Boss was inside him and considers him a different person, so it's really just a Yugi/Atem situation going on it feels like. Doppio himself is not a Good Boy even when you're not taking Diavolo into account, he's just less of a terrible person than Diavolo, and the two just enable each other.
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Jun 30, 2019 16:30
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Momomo posted:The latest ep shows that Doppio himself both knew the Boss was inside him and considers him a different person, so it's really just a Yugi/Atem situation going on it feels like. Doppio himself is not a Good Boy even when you're not taking Diavolo into account, he's just less of a terrible person than Diavolo, and the two just enable each other. That's what Norman does with Norma Bates, and Norma knows that she controls Norman. Araki is a super fan of film, so he probably just pulled Diavolo from Psycho. I'm not really taking fault to people that put a hard separation there as opposed to seeing all personalities as a set of a more complicated villain; I'm saying that seeing it in the latter format makes it way better (as it combined everything into one character and provides a lot more personality), and people do that with other, similar characters all of the time, so there's no reason not to. VVV So, Split or Legion, then. Darko fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jun 30, 2019 |
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Jun 30, 2019 16:40
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Well they have different souls and his body literally transforms when Diavolo takes over so it's not surprising that people view them as separate characters.
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Jun 30, 2019 17:00
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Also Wasn't the whole point of Bruno deciding to go rogue after Diavolo tries to murder his daughter that trying to work within an exploitative system to undermine it doesn't work? Like they try that at first in order to get any info on the Boss, but it leads to the opposite of what Bruno wanted? In a story where all of the larger systems the main characters are stuck in have inherently failed them, but they decide to rise above that anyway and betray the Boss outright? And how those systems and the concept of Fate are linked with it framed at them trying to rise above their fate? I get that watching a Serpico But With the Mafia would be cool and I'd love that but I'm not sure that's the underlying point of the story here.
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Jun 30, 2019 17:02
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Why aren't people talking about the cute mole
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Jun 30, 2019 18:16
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Anonymous Robot posted:Manga readers, is Stone Ocean as ludicrous, dream logic-y and deus-ex-machina filled as Golden Wind? I’m really not feeling this part and may check out on the series if this is the way of things from 5 on. Stone ocean owns
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Jun 30, 2019 18:18
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BaDandy posted:Also I suppose so, yeah, but that’s also where it becomes Stardust Crusaders: Italiano. Things that are characteristic of mafia stories that never really come up in Jojo include the law, drugs, gang hierarchy, rival families, involving innocent parties, etc. It starts out promising, with Giorno’s (obviously flawed) ambition to clean up the mafia and use it as a force for good, beginning with the intriguing puzzle of how to remove Polpo (a capo who uses both his stand and his social capital to render himself untouchable within his cell,) positioning Bruno as a figurehead capo, etc. But it falls out of the plot quickly and becomes “my gang of assassins will get you” again. The whole idea of removing narcotics from the mafia profit machine never comes up again, and it’s Giorno’s driving ambition.
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Jun 30, 2019 20:14
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I was gonna say, if Diavolo was desperate, all he has to do is say "You know what, fine, no more drugs in my mafia" and Giorno would either be like "Oh, well cool then" or be like "I JUST WANT TO RUN THE MAFIA OKAY NOW DIE"
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Jun 30, 2019 20:17
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Anonymous Robot posted:I suppose so, yeah, but that’s also where it becomes Stardust Crusaders: Italiano. Things that are characteristic of mafia stories that never really come up in Jojo include the law, drugs, gang hierarchy, rival families, involving innocent parties, etc. Sure but at a certain point it stops being about getting rid of the drugs because of the larger problem. Over the course of the story, Giorno and Bruno's goals get more personal and revenge-driven at certain points, with Bruno's last straw being Diavolo trying to kill Trish. Giorno is here because he's learning about how Mafia Works instead of being just a weird fanboy who wants to be Batman. The gang goes from protecting Trish as part of their job to actually caring about her as a person, and I feel like that shift of them going along with the system they're stuck in to get an in to caring about another person just because it's right and becoming "traitors" because of that is the whole point.
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Jun 30, 2019 20:38
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the mole tho
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Jun 30, 2019 22:02
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Kurtofan posted:the mole tho Nobody cares about Fugo at this point, let it go.
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Jun 30, 2019 22:12
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I never really understood the argument that Diavolo is a bad villain, or that he is boring. I think there is a lot to his character and the discussion around him being subpar antagonist because he is absent or in the shadows for most of the part. I legitimately find him far more interesting than the likes of Kars or even DIO, and his motivations are far more complex than a lot of people give him credit for. DIO is characterised by his thirst for power, Kars by his goal of perfection, and Kira by stability. All of these come from a place of strength. Diavolo, on the other hand, comes from a inherent position of weakness. He wants to be invisible, to be forgotten, to literally be erased from time. He is so dedicated to his goal that he will not even reveal his own identity to himself. There's legitimately a lot to him, its just never directly told to the reader/viewer. Part 5 very much has its problems, it does not exactly stick the landing and there are some weird bits and pieces within it. Though I really think that they're overblown by memes about KC and manga readers who only read the bad scans.
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Jul 1, 2019 00:32
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I just don't think it's that interesting to have a shonen antagonist who avoids engaging with the plot at all costs and a complete void of a personality. Particularly in this arc, Diavolo's desires are in complete opposition to his position and prior actions - he doesn't appear to get off on power like DIO or have any goals past remaining anoymous so you have to question why he even wants to be the boss of Passione, he'd legitmately probably be happier living as a hermit in a cave. And just from a shonen fighting perspective giving him such a loosely defined ever-changing nonsense power is extremely boring. One of the biggest pulls of JoJo is how clever the fights are and how Araki managed to make a Stand which allows you to poo poo frogs or whatever incredibly terrfiying and effective, having an antagonist who can't even be fought because his ability is so stupid and uncounterable works entirely against what makes Araki's fight scenes so engaging to begin with. And I think most manga people have read the good translation by now, the end of Vento Aureo is just the nadir of the series.
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Jul 1, 2019 01:03
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multijoe posted:I just don't think it's that interesting to have a shonen antagonist who avoids engaging with the plot at all costs and a complete void of a personality. Particularly in this arc, Diavolo's desires are in complete opposition to his position and prior actions - he doesn't appear to get off on power like DIO or have any goals past remaining anoymous so you have to question why he even wants to be the boss of Passione, he'd legitmately probably be happier living as a hermit in a cave. Its not just that Diavolo wants to be forgotten, he needs to be removed from everything. It makes legitimate sense that he feels more secure being in the leading position of Passione. If he was a hermit and someone came to find him, he would not have the deep levels of protection, of knowledge, the network that Passione offers. Sure, he could just completely cut himself off, but that does not provide security that being within the mob gives him. The reasoning behind him is entirely solid. multijoe posted:And just from a shonen fighting perspective giving him such a loosely defined ever-changing nonsense power is extremely boring. One of the biggest pulls of JoJo is how clever the fights are and how Araki managed to make a Stand which allows you to poo poo frogs or whatever incredibly terrfiying and effective, having an antagonist who can't even be fought because his ability is so stupid and uncounterable works entirely against what makes Araki's fight scenes so engaging to begin with. King Crimson is not loosely defined at all, especially after the anime.
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Jul 1, 2019 01:38
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painted into a coroner posted:King Crimson is not loosely defined at all, especially after the anime. are you entirely sure about that
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Jul 1, 2019 01:45
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painted into a coroner posted:Its not just that Diavolo wants to be forgotten, he needs to be removed from everything. It makes legitimate sense that he feels more secure being in the leading position of Passione. If he was a hermit and someone came to find him, he would not have the deep levels of protection, of knowledge, the network that Passione offers. Sure, he could just completely cut himself off, but that does not provide security that being within the mob gives him. The reasoning behind him is entirely solid. Literally the only reason anyone cares about him is because he made himself the head of a major international crime organisation. He's painted a target on his own back and then spends his entire existence trying to cover it up. painted into a coroner posted:King Crimson is not loosely defined at all, especially after the anime. I already brought this up in the manga thread so sorry for sounding like a broken record but does King Crimson: a) Cause Futurama Time Keeps On Slipping-style timeskips where people take actions but can't remember doing them? b) Cause people to zone out whilst time is erased and ignore obvious threats they'd normally respond to, but otherwise allow physics to continue normally? c) Just flat out freeze time and keep people entirely in place as Diavolo repositions around them? The answer is all of the above, depending what Araki seems to think would be most dramatic in any given scene
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Jul 1, 2019 01:47
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Tetracube posted:are you entirely sure about that King Crimson has two abilities. 1) Epitaph - This allows Diavolo to see 10 seconds into the future. 2) King Crimson - This allows Diavolo to erase sections of time he does not want to happen. It does not stop them from happening, because it is only the result that matters. This is why he can dodge bullets, because he erases the result of them entering his body.
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Jul 1, 2019 01:48
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The thing that confuses me about King Crimson is Epitaph lets him see 10 seconds into the future, but what he sees is supposedly set in stone so it should be almost useless. Yet he's able to pull off the bullshit bullet blocking in this episode somehow.
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Jul 1, 2019 01:50
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King Crimson is not even 1/1000th as much of an asspull as Gold Experience has been throughout this part. Him killing Narancia is the only thing that feels a bit convoluted.RatHat posted:The thing that confuses me about King Crimson is Epitaph lets him see 10 seconds into the future, but what he sees is supposedly set in stone so it should be almost useless. Yet he's able to pull off the bullshit bullet blocking in this episode somehow. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Jul 1, 2019 |
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Jul 1, 2019 01:50
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Epitaph also seems to work one way when Diavolo is using it and another when Doppio is using it. When Diavolo uses it we see the red outlines that just objectively show what is going to happen in 10 seconds and he is able to react to it. When Doppio uses it, it suddenly becomes unreliable, is somewhat vague and apparently what it shows can't be altered.
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Jul 1, 2019 01:55
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multijoe posted:Literally the only reason anyone cares about him is because he made himself the head of a major international crime organisation. He's painted a target on his own back and then spends his entire existence trying to cover it up. It entirely tracks that his goal can also be a detriment to him. This is why I would argue that Diavolo is the most human of all the Jojo villains. He is so obsessed with the result of being erased he has not properly. An antagonist not having an airtight plan does not always mean bad writing. multijoe posted:I already brought this up in the manga thread so sorry for sounding like a broken record but does King Crimson: I do not see how any of these really cancel each other out.
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Jul 1, 2019 01:59
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If King Crimson consistently used all the powers it's shown to be capable of, it would basically just be The World. At the same time, the entire point of King Crimson is to ostensibly be a time manipulation Stand that has sufficient weaknesses and catches compared to The World that you could actually beat it by clever thinking.
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Jul 1, 2019 02:00
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AnEdgelord posted:Epitaph also seems to work one way when Diavolo is using it and another when Doppio is using it. When Diavolo uses it we see the red outlines that just objectively show what is going to happen in 10 seconds and he is able to react to it. When Doppio uses it, it suddenly becomes unreliable, is somewhat vague and apparently what it shows can't be altered. While never ultra confirmed, Diavolo always said that he was lending Doppio a "portion" of his power. It is possible that he restricts it, and I would even argue that he probably does not because he doesn't trust Doppio with the full power of King Crimson, lest he inflate Doppio's ego/give any additional clue that they are the same person. Also, Doppio's use of Epitaph completely scans with how Araki views predictions and destiny. We can see this with Boingo and Thoth - The event must happen, but it does not have to occur exactly like it was predicted. Again, it is the results that matter. This is why Oingo-Jotaro got his face split in Stardust Crusaders, and why the foot changed from Doppio's to Risotto's. Tuxedo Catfish posted:If King Crimson consistently used all the powers it's shown to be capable of, it would basically just be The World. This basically described why I like Part 5 as much as I do. It has its faults, but it is basically Araki going back to the format of Stardust Crusaders and doing it better. For the most parts he does do it better! Golden Wind has some of the best individual fights of the series - Grateful Dead and Beach Boy, Green Day and Oasis, Notorious BIG. It does have some of the lowest lows, but overall it balances itself out and comes above Stardust Crusaders, imo (Although not in my top 3 Jojo parts) Skull Servant fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Jul 1, 2019 |
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Jul 1, 2019 02:07
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The biggest problem I have with King Crimson as a Stand is that we're told it's invincible and too powerful and can't be beaten. We're shown that it's strong, sure, but it's time erasure power isn't insurmountable. Both of the previous fights it's been involved in were great (Bruno at the cathedral and using Epitaph vs Risotto), and both showed that King Crimson is not invincible. Bruno figured out a way to hit the boss on his own, and we see it again in this very arc that Polnareff came up with a second way to outthink and outmaneuver Diavolo and manage to hit him. But we're then immediately afterwards told that it's impossible and we need the Arrow to give someone a Requiem Stand to even be able to stand a chance. Epitaph doesn't even really play into this much. Bruno inadvertently came up with a way around that (because he didn't really know it existed) and Risotto nearly beat Doppio as well. Doppio only won because he was actually kinda viciously clever when the chips were down and had a counter-strategy for Metallica. King Crimson has been shown to be fallible and potentially beatable in a straight fight. It'd take clever and planning and, hey, maybe the gang would have to work together to pull something off effectively but it's still very possible. What makes it more impressive is that people who definitely know this, because they've seen the previous fights already, also repeat that King Crimson is too overpowered and can't be harmed. Stopping Diavolo from getting the Arrow himself is very important, yeah obviously, so having that be a conceit of the fight in itself isn't a problem. Having that instead be the fight (as it's presented) with the conceit of "we need to use it first because we can never ever ever win otherwise" is just telling without showing. And what we've been shown contradicts it.
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Jul 1, 2019 02:08
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painted into a coroner posted:It entirely tracks that his goal can also be a detriment to him. This is why I would argue that Diavolo is the most human of all the Jojo villains. He is so obsessed with the result of being erased he has not properly. An antagonist not having an airtight plan does not always mean bad writing. No, but we never see that humanity, or anything else that would inform why he does what he does. His sole character trait is being mentally ill and having incredibly muddled thinking, there's just nothing else to his character. He just pursues an agenda that's in direct conflict with his only real desire for ... no reason. He has no secret life like Kira where we see why he wants power, or what he may do with it, he's just a walking contrivance for the 'who is the Boss??' mystery plot. painted into a coroner posted:I do not see how any of these really cancel each other out. They don't neccessarily, but that why I said they're losely defined and makes for bad action writing. No other villain has so much variance in what they can actually do, and even with Kira's bombs each has clear limitations of how they work and what precisely they can do that allows them to be overcome and defeated. King Crimson just says ~~~Time is Erased~~~ and just whatever is most convenient is allow him to win the scene he's in, it's hack shonen writing.
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Jul 1, 2019 02:12
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anyway credit to the anime for doing its best to make sense of this garbled nonsense
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Jul 1, 2019 02:13
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I'm honestly just happy that JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is getting this much discussion in 2019multijoe posted:I just don't think it's that interesting to have a shonen antagonist who avoids engaging with the plot at all costs
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Jul 1, 2019 02:13
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Dragonatrix posted:The biggest problem I have with King Crimson as a Stand is that we're told it's invincible and too powerful and can't be beaten. We're shown that it's strong, sure, but it's time erasure power isn't insurmountable. Both of the previous fights it's been involved in were great (Bruno at the cathedral and using Epitaph vs Risotto), and both showed that King Crimson is not invincible. Bruno figured out a way to hit the boss on his own, and we see it again in this very arc that Polnareff came up with a second way to outthink and outmaneuver Diavolo and manage to hit him. But we're then immediately afterwards told that it's impossible and we need the Arrow to give someone a Requiem Stand to even be able to stand a chance. Remember who is telling the reader/viewer this. Of course all the members of Passione who have stands think that the Boss must be invincible - He has a whole crew of stand assassins who, within reason, should be able to take him out. He must be pretty powerful if he is able to keep his power while almost freely giving out stand powers to his own gang. Giorno and co of course think that King Crimson is near invincible, because they are currently having trouble with him and he has technically taken out two of the crew (more than DIO did with the Stardust crew!) Polnareff will say that Diavolo is near invincible. He almost died to King Crimson. The last time, we assume, he went against a time manipulation stand it belonged to a 100 year old vampire who brainwashed him and killed a teammate and basically killed another. King Crimson is also a direct counter to The World, so even if he went to Jotraro, nothing could be done, KC would just erase the stopped time. The final person who says King Crimson is invincible is Diavolo himself. Of course he thinks that, because it is with its power that he was able to erase himself from society. He has managed to do this for years now, and he has not done too bad a job at maintaining his position until the arrow and soul swapping forced him out in the open.
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Jul 1, 2019 02:21
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:If King Crimson consistently used all the powers it's shown to be capable of, it would basically just be The World. This is pretty much exactly the issue with KC, yeah. It's The World with limitations - you can out think it, if you plan far enough ahead, and it can't kill you during skipped time. You could actually beat this with clever thinking and a decent stand! But then it also has Epitaph so gently caress you, its just basically the best stand around. I wonder how much better this ending bit would be if Epitaph was actually Doppio's stand - since Stands are tied to your soul and we know the boss definitively has two souls from Chariot Requiem's nonsense. It would make them in their current borderline invincible state while the boss is together and working with himself, because Diavolo could use Doppio's sight to stay one step ahead at all times. This wouldn't undo Doppio's previous fight with Risotto in any way, either - Diavolo is in control, so he can take Doppio's power but not the other way around, that seems just fine logically. Make Doppio a precog and Diavolo the power hungry time-skip nightmare boss. And doing this would make him vulnerable after Chariot Requiem separated Doppio and Diavolo from each other. You'd need to replace the plot beat of Bruno's body getting immediately gunned down so Doppio and Diavolo had a hot minute to try and work together as separate people, but I think that would make for a better setup anyway. gnome7 fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jul 1, 2019 |
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Jul 1, 2019 02:26
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multijoe posted:No, but we never see that humanity, or anything else that would inform why he does what he does. His sole character trait is being mentally ill and having incredibly muddled thinking, there's just nothing else to his character. He just pursues an agenda that's in direct conflict with his only real desire for ... no reason. He has no secret life like Kira where we see why he wants power, or what he may do with it, he's just a walking contrivance for the 'who is the Boss??' mystery plot. I think boiling it down exclusively to him being mentally ill is not proper reading of the text. There is more than him just having two different personalities - he has two different souls. His entire appearance changes when he switches from Doppio to Diavolo; he gets taller, his hair changes, he gets buff. You could write it off as pure mental illness and I would agree that it would be hack writing, if not for Silver Chariot Requiem and the soul swapping. That's a real weird thing to say when the fight isn't even that good! multijoe posted:They don't neccessarily, but that why I said they're losely defined and makes for bad action writing. No other villain has so much variance in what they can actually do, and even with Kira's bombs each has clear limitations of how they work and what precisely they can do that allows them to be overcome and defeated. King Crimson just says ~~~Time is Erased~~~ and just whatever is most convenient is allow him to win the scene he's in, it's hack shonen writing. I think bringing up Kira as an analogue is wrong here, because while you can argue that King Crimson can be inconsistent, Kira literally gets a new power every time he shows up. First he can make objects bombs, then he has a tracking bomb, then he can make a bomb that resets time, then he can fuse with a cat plant. I love Part 4 its conclusion, and Kira. It is my favorite part for characters and comedy, but Kira literally just gets new powers wholesale, as opposed to the variance of one power that King Crimson has. I'm saying this preferring Kira as a villain over Diavolo! gnome7 posted:This is pretty much exactly the issue with KC, yeah. It's The World with limitations - you can out think it, if you plan far enough ahead, and it can't kill you during skipped time. You could actually beat this with clever thinking and a decent stand! But then it also has Epitaph so gently caress you, its just basically the best stand around. This would do a lot to fix some of the issues surrounding the last fight and I really like the idea of Doppio and Diavolo working together in separate bodies and wished it happened.
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Jul 1, 2019 02:33
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gnome7 posted:This is pretty much exactly the issue with KC, yeah. It's The World with limitations - you can out think it, if you plan far enough ahead, and it can't kill you during skipped time. You could actually beat this with clever thinking and a decent stand! But then it also has Epitaph so gently caress you, its just basically the best stand around. to be honest it'd be dope as gently caress if they each had separate abilities which work well together and i'm sad it didn't turn out that way
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Jul 1, 2019 02:35
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