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LORD OF BOOTY posted:I'm not really sure we should be applying cultural relativism to ritualistically torturing people to death Correct, if someone thinks this movie needed to be 140 minutes they’re kind of unhinged
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Jul 10, 2019 01:32
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Right, but Mel was initially talking specifically about these crimes in relation to Dani’s reaction to them, not the rest of the cult’s, so I do think their point is valid. Right around the maypole scene is the point at which I couldn't even attempt to put Dani's emotional state into words. How can I judge her for feeling a way that I can't even identify?
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Jul 10, 2019 01:36
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I’m a sucker for long meandering camerawork and the upside down highway trip was completely my poo poo. Really everything about how they shot the scenes. The dance scene was awesome as well.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:36
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Midsommar is a metaphor for when you go to a new place and meet a bunch of new friends and eventually they go “yo, your boyfriend? he sucks” and you realize they’re right
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Jul 10, 2019 01:42
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veni veni veni posted:One thing I wonder about is that, if I'm not mistaken this ritual has not been performed for 90 years. So none of the cultists have ever done anything like this. Presumably they see people jump to their deaths every year (semi voluntarily) , but kidnapping outsiders and even using their own members for brutal human sacrifice is new territory. But everyone seems totally fine with it, giddy even. like it's just another yearly festival. You'd think once poo poo got real and people were being skinned and burned alive it might trigger some pretty big issues amongst the group once they witnessed how hosed up what they were doing was. I dont think you're really supposed to think about it? Or at least not supposed to ascribe any kind of normal, individual rationality to the thought process of this psychically-linked collective death cult. Like, they set everyone up to be punished with ritual murder but then they say at the end they were gonna kill everyone anyway. And really, they would have to because any outsiders would obviously immediately go "hey they were torturing all my friends to death in the mountains please help police" but that risk seems entirely irrelevant. Which is part of why I found it underwhelming (if you're gonna forego realism to do a hallucinatory fairy tale go crazy with it) but there's no real way to try and logically piece it together.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:46
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Also even if you take away the ritual murders imagine how absolutely dogshit it would be to realize that your European vacation was gonna be sitting around in hot wooden shacks, eating the most bland poo poo imaginable and just listening to people sing swedish peasant songs or watching what I imagine is an old VHS of Austin powers for like six weeks I guess I'm saying mark was right
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Jul 10, 2019 01:52
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:I'm not really sure we should be applying cultural relativism to ritualistically torturing people to death Maybe not, maybe I'm just too darn sympathetic to indigenous customs. But please don't passive-aggressively call my mental health into question like that.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:00
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Wolfsheim posted:Also even if you take away the ritual murders imagine how absolutely dogshit it would be to realize that your European vacation was gonna be sitting around in hot wooden shacks, eating the most bland poo poo imaginable and just listening to people sing swedish peasant songs or watching what I imagine is an old VHS of Austin powers for like six weeks It’s like being tricked into going to your buddy’s vacation bible school for a week in the summer after 4th grade.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:07
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veni veni veni posted:One thing I wonder about is that, if I'm not mistaken this ritual has not been performed for 90 years. So none of the cultists have ever done anything like this. Presumably they see people jump to their deaths every year (semi voluntarily) , but kidnapping outsiders and even using their own members for brutal human sacrifice is new territory. But everyone seems totally fine with it, giddy even. like it's just another yearly festival. You'd think once poo poo got real and people were being skinned and burned alive it might trigger some pretty big issues amongst the group once they witnessed how hosed up what they were doing was. I think the festival in general happens more frequently but it landing on the true equinox this year made it the biggest one in a century. Like how in our calendar equinoxes drift around the calendar on a 400 year cycle and easter, which was at one point a celebration of the vernal equinox shifts around between like 30 dates on a big complicated pattern of like 150 years (and never will actually fall on the equinox). Like leap years and the indivisible length of solar years or lunar months makes astronomical holidays drift around. Just assume whatever calendar they use rarely has their midsommar fall exactly on the equinox. The same way this is the formula to find the date of easter and assuming you knew the true date of jesus's crucifixion and rebirth (and that it was one of the possible dates) that easter would only be hitting that every hundred and something years and if people knew that they might want to extra celebrate the years it was march 23rd or whatever: 
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Jul 10, 2019 02:11
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Ari Release the 4 hour cut you coward
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Jul 10, 2019 02:28
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I'm the guy that said Tusk is good. While I'm not going to defend the movie here, I will say that there are obviously scenes in this film that remind me of it, and it's not all bear related. Both movies have some darkly comedic elements, both involve an outsiders attempt to exploit a selfcontained ecosystem, etc.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:29
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Blast Fantasto posted:The impression I got was that 9 people needed to be sacrificed. If some or most of those 9 could be outsiders, great. If not, 9 members of the cult would have to do. My read on this is that Pelle thought that Dani would make a good Mayqueen since he could perceive that she's looking for emotional connection (put another way, he can sense her vulnerabilities.) Actually another way of thinking about the ending is questioning whether Dani actually has found a community or whether she's just fallen for a more capable emotional manipulator. Mel Mudkiper posted:The British couple and Josh Josh is a loving rear end in a top hat, though. Not answering Dani when she asked "Is it scary?" is a pure dick move.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:45
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I thought Josh was maybe lying he knew what it was. He misidentifies runes acting like a know it all, maybe that's the same thing.
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Jul 10, 2019 02:48
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Catching up on this thread, the debate about Christian is a bit unsettling. The dude was essentially raped.
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Jul 10, 2019 03:09
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Like this movie seems to be a weirdly good litmus test for whether or not someone's kind of unhinged Yes, we absolutely should check out related tweets  : https://twitter.com/mantispants/status/1146976729044586497 And that first reply, JFC  e: forgot the amazing twitter emoji for the hashtag: 
boo_radley fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 03:23
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Man I still wish the musical refrain from the Maypole dance-off competition would get posted. That was a dope jam.
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Jul 10, 2019 04:31
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Donovan Trip posted:Ari Release the 4 hour cut you coward A Brighter Midsommar Day
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Jul 10, 2019 04:44
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Ari is a very talented director and interesting writer, but he's leaning far too hard on the jump cut shock value moments throughout this one instead of trusting the movie to work on it's own merits (brilliant tension, cinematography, soundtrack, and acting). The reason the shock scene worked so well in Hereditary is because it was a one time shot, not cut back to many times throughout the movie. Overall though this is a much tighter film, I just wish he wouldn't build up so much great tension to waste it on that. He's (almost literally) beating the audience over the head with it at times in this movie and it just pulled me out of the movie and atmosphere. Florence Pugh is incredible.
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Jul 10, 2019 08:41
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Bottom Liner posted:Ari is a very talented director and interesting writer, but he's leaning far too hard on the jump cut shock value moments throughout this one instead of trusting the movie to work on it's own merits (brilliant tension, cinematography, soundtrack, and acting). The reason the shock scene worked so well in Hereditary is because it was a one time shot, not cut back to many times throughout the movie. This is something I noticed too. For as much conversation as there are about his movies not having jump scares I find the aggressive cutting to basically produce the same effect. I also don't think that people getting a sense of cathartic release or having a pithy take on Dani's "happy" ending are literally advocating for lovely dudes to go through the same thing as Christian. I think it's interesting to speculate on the events that happen after the film and there's probably a really good concept for a movie in that but Aster is heavily fixated on Dani's mental state to the exclusion of almost everything else. It's definitely an aggressive approach and I can see how it makes some people bounce off - it only barely works for me. Paragon8 fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 10:36
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Worth noting that Dani is absolutely not speaking Swedish* in that scene with the May Pole. It's just part of the way hallucinogens make you feel connected to everyone on a very base, spiritual level. *this is based on my very intermediate knowledge of Swedish and may be wrong - could be that she's speaking Swedish and just has a bad English accent over it
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Jul 10, 2019 14:02
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Dr. Red Ranger posted:Anyone notice the book on the guy's apartment coffee table was a blatant rune reference? Nazis loved runes and proto Scandinavian cultural items like that. I noticed that the traditional garb everyone wore had a rune or two centered by the neck, not that I could read any of it. The elder woman announcing everything had the same rune on her shirt that her little elder's cabin had on it handrails. Neat. I noticed this too. It was almost dead center on the screen for a few minutes (slightly blurry though). I think it said something like "Hidden Nazi Language of Futhark" or something like that. I half expected there to be an obvious Nazi angle to the cult after seeing that. I guess one of the cultists did talk about their bloodline being well preserved despite needing outsiders to prevent inbreeding, and that all of the outsider sacrifices, save for Mark and Christian (who was used to mate first), were POC or not really "Aryan" looking people. I might be reaching a little here though. garbage horse fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 14:39
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garbage horse posted:I noticed this too. It was almost dead center on the screen for a few minutes (slightly blurry though). I think it said something like "Hidden Nazi Language of Futhark" or something like that. I half expected there to be an obvious Nazi angle to the cult after seeing that. I noticed this too and it was a specific point of tension throughout the movie for me, because I was expecting something way worse to befall Josh just on account of him being a POC.
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Jul 10, 2019 15:38
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one little thing that made me question myself was the flower in dani's crown "breathing" (opening and closing).
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Jul 10, 2019 15:43
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Groovelord Neato posted:one little thing that made me question myself was the flower in dani's crown "breathing" (opening and closing). If you've ever done mushrooms or other hallucinogens this is immediately recognizable as an effect. Other movies have done this as well but Aster got it right.
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Jul 10, 2019 15:47
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i'm a square and have only done/do alcohol so it was cool and unnerving.
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Jul 10, 2019 15:59
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Paragon8 posted:I also don't think that people getting a sense of cathartic release or having a pithy take on Dani's "happy" ending are literally advocating for lovely dudes to go through the same thing as Christian. I felt good for Dani finally being free of Christian and among people who seemed to really care about and accept her. But also I would not feel good about it if it happened in the real world instead of a fictional story that uses fairy-tale logic. My reaction to something in a fictional setting and a real world setting are often quite different. I mean, I watch violent horror movies but real world violence makes me feel sad and empathetic for the victims. I can watch a disaster movie and think the effects are awesome but also realize that if I was IN that disaster it would probably be the worst and last thing to happen to me.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:00
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Groovelord Neato posted:one little thing that made me question myself was the flower in dani's crown "breathing" (opening and closing). Did you miss all the other plants “breathing” throughout the movie?
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Jul 10, 2019 16:10
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BrendianaJones posted:I felt good for Dani finally being free of Christian and among people who seemed to really care about and accept her. Yeah I think a lot of people are taking some things about this movie very literally that aren’t meant to be
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Jul 10, 2019 16:13
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Bottom Liner posted:Did you miss all the other plants “breathing” throughout the movie? no i saw all that - in her crown it's one specific flower opening/closing instead of say a whole trunk/leaves. at first i was thinking huh was it just the angle of the crown and i saw something that wasn't there.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:14
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I first noted the flower crown and then noted that the hills behind her also seemed to be shifting and teeming. Did not notice any effects beforehand.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:17
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Watched this yesterday and I gotta say that Chekhov’s Bear did not end up the way I thought it would
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Jul 10, 2019 16:36
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QuoProQuid posted:I first noted the flower crown and then noted that the hills behind her also seemed to be shifting and teeming. Did not notice any effects beforehand. Don't forget the roast in the final feast. It was pulsing as well.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:38
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boo_radley posted:Don't forget the roast in the final feast. It was pulsing as well. That bit was weirdddddddddd to me
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Jul 10, 2019 16:39
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Naming the boyfriend Christian seems a bit on the nose.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:44
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beanieson posted:Watched this yesterday and I gotta say that Chekhov’s Bear did not end up the way I thought it would i let out a "nooo!" when Christian saw the mural of the burning bear because I thought the bear was going to be burned alive. still, poor bear.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:45
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The warping bits of scenery started as soon as Dani drank the first tea when they arrived and would happen randomly throughout but was always increased after every tea/drug.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:45
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i thought they were going to vivisect christian when they plopped him on the table next to the bear.
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Jul 10, 2019 16:46
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Yeah I think a lot of people are taking some things about this movie very literally that aren’t meant to be I mean, there's a lot about the characters and their relationship that's fairly vauge and left up to the audience to decide or assume, so I'm not surprised people feel very differently about their actions, but Aster does seem to be very clearly indicating that her actions and feelings at the end should inspire, at the very least, moral unease. It's functionally the same as the climax of Carrie, except Carrie draws very clear lines about how we should feel, which makes it a more overt tragedy. This is more like that article about dating Aziz Ansari, and you could argue that this film is just as critical towards women about how those kinds of situations are handled, though it's delivered via a plot device that's like one of those doofus twitter thought experiments about a white person saying the n-word to avert nuclear tragedy. What if that?? Huh??
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Jul 10, 2019 16:47
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Magic Hate Ball posted:I mean, there's a lot about the characters and their relationship that's fairly vauge and left up to the audience to decide or assume, so I'm not surprised people feel very differently about their actions, but Aster does seem to be very clearly indicating that her actions and feelings at the end should inspire, at the very least, moral unease. It's functionally the same as the climax of Carrie, except Carrie draws very clear lines about how we should feel, which makes it a more overt tragedy. This is more like that article about dating Aziz Ansari, and you could argue that this film is just as critical towards women about how those kinds of situations are handled, though it's delivered via a plot device that's like one of those doofus twitter thought experiments about a white person saying the n-word to avert nuclear tragedy. What if that?? Huh?? not gonna lie you lost me there
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Jul 10, 2019 16:49
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Are we meant to think this ceremony happens once every 90 years? Because Pelle says his parents died in a fire and I’m think now that maybe this was just the 90th anniversary of when they first started these annual sacrifices 🤷🏻♂️
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Jul 10, 2019 16:50
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