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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher |
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18 | 1.46% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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665 | 54.11% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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319 | 25.96% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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26 | 2.12% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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17 | 1.38% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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3 | 0.24% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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8 | 0.65% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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86 | 7.00% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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23 | 1.87% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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32 | 2.60% |
| Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy |
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2 | 0.16% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.08% |
| Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated |
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4 | 0.33% |
| Tim Ryan, the Dope Face |
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3 | 0.24% |
| John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran |
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7 | 0.57% |
| Total: | 1229 votes | ||
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Mike the TV posted:This is the option that I would be most excited for, and I'm surprised it's not talked about. Because everybody would just laugh and laugh and say things like “why not just give everybody a pony too ?” . Plus the jealousy and crab in a bucket syndrome of “I have good insurance and no debt why should I pay to help them !! It’s their fault they don’t have good insurance not mine “ “What’s next pay off everybodies mortgage ?!”
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Jul 11, 2019 16:41
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Gyges posted:Has there ever been an "investment in freedom" that wasn't total horeshit trying to fly under the radar via buzzwords? That's the contradiction within liberalism. What it results in, is the negation of what it values and starts with. That is what breaks it and what the conservative elements in it push it towards (basically they try push it back to the feudalism it broke). If you look at his website Pete's thing is to try to reconcile that contradiction eg. "freedom means". But another issue follows democracy can't really be seperated from liberalism, it's foundational assumptions are liberal. So there is a conflict (but not a contradiction) within socialism about democracy. It's interesting to watch those things play out in thread conversations.
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Jul 11, 2019 16:57
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BrandorKP posted:But another issue follows democracy can't really be seperated from liberalism, it's foundational assumptions are liberal. So there is a conflict (but not a contradiction) within socialism about democracy. It's interesting to watch those things play out in thread conversations. ...but this isn't true at all? Not sure what you're even talking about here, unless you're using the weird Skex definition of "liberal" where he just interprets it as "everything that isn't bad."
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Jul 11, 2019 17:03
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Punk da Bundo posted:“What’s next pay off everybodies mortgage ?!”
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Jul 11, 2019 17:24
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Ytlaya posted:...but this isn't true at all? Not sure what you're even talking about here, unless you're using the weird Skex definition of "liberal" where he just interprets it as "everything that isn't bad." No, I'm not. Autonomy of the individual, ie. freedom, is essential to voting.
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Jul 11, 2019 17:25
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BrandorKP posted:No, I'm not. Autonomy of the individual, ie. freedom, is essential to voting. I'm not seeing where autonomy of the individual for everyone is guaranteed under liberalism; I'm also not seeing how it isn't guaranteed under socialism.
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Jul 11, 2019 17:29
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Majorian posted:I'm not seeing where autonomy of the individual for everyone is guaranteed under liberalism; I'm also not seeing how it isn't guaranteed under socialism. Thats because you're too caught up in the narrative -- you cant step outside of the narrative and examine it critically, see both its strengths and its weaknesses. Buttigieg (and I as well) are trying to do just that
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Jul 11, 2019 17:37
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https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1149348248634699776 https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1149347477453070336 https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1149346807866171392
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Jul 11, 2019 17:37
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I don’t understand any support for Butt at all . When he speaks he never says anything . Like platitudes about service or virtue or endless nonsense . Orb mom Williamson is a better candidate than him .
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Jul 11, 2019 17:42
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Biden that low in Iowa is not good for him
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Jul 11, 2019 17:43
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sitchensis posted:bUt wHaT aBoUt tHe sOciAL cReDiT sCoReS iN cHiNa?? Credit scores or social credit scores shouldn't exist in the first place...
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Jul 11, 2019 17:44
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Punk da Bundo posted:I don’t understand any support for Butt at all . When he speaks he never says anything . Like platitudes about service or virtue or endless nonsense . thats what presidents on tv talk about which is why they like him
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Jul 11, 2019 17:50
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Majorian posted:I'm not seeing where autonomy of the individual for everyone is guaranteed under liberalism; I'm also not seeing how it isn't guaranteed under socialism. "Democratic centralism"/"Vanguardism" aren't actually democratic by any measure. "Autonomy" isn't just a social/economic right, its also a political/civil right... which means that it requires that set of structures that many classical socialists reject: independent judiciaries and independent legislatures, as well as a set of enforceable rights and relationships between the individual and the state (unless you're an anarchist, in which case your set of ideal relations between individual and commune look pretty different).
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Jul 11, 2019 17:51
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Shear Modulus posted:thats what presidents on tv talk about which is why they like him what tv shows are popular right now that have a president ? Or are people still endlessly rewatching the west wing Remember the 90s when every movie President was like mitt Romney with a spine
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Jul 11, 2019 17:54
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Punk da Bundo posted:I don’t understand any support for Butt at all . When he speaks he never says anything . Like platitudes about service or virtue or endless nonsense . I think he's saying a great deal - what I hear is a thoughtful, nuanced effort to explore the narratives underlying American political thought -- the tensions, contradictions, strengths and weaknesses, ie "freedom means"
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Jul 11, 2019 17:55
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Calibanibal posted:I think he's saying a great deal - what I hear is a thoughtful, nuanced effort to explore the narratives underlying American political thought -- the tensions, contradictions, strengths and weaknesses, ie "freedom means" Pete talks so much but says so little !!!!
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Jul 11, 2019 17:57
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https://twitter.com/ClareMalone/status/1149342265095180290
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Jul 11, 2019 18:01
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Charlz Guybon posted:I guess he noticed he's drawing about zero African American support "Inspired by American hero Frederick Douglass and comparable in scale to the Marshall Plan that rebuilt Europe after World War II, the Douglass Plan dismantles old systems and structures that inhibit prosperity and builds new ones that will unlock the collective potential of Black America." I wonder how pissed he was that Bernie was already calling his plan the Thurgood Marshall Plan.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:04
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Pretty sure it's just people wanting the female president they were denied. It's hard to argue with really since theres been 44 dudes in the job
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Jul 11, 2019 18:05
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Punk da Bundo posted:what tv shows are popular right now that have a president ? the west wing and hazy half-remembered recollections of jfk also being youngish and saying that americans should do things for their country
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Jul 11, 2019 18:09
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Majorian posted:I'm not seeing where autonomy of the individual for everyone is guaranteed under liberalism That's what it is fundamentally though. It's the throwing out of feudalism, theocracy, etc, for governments that attempt to be rational and based in personal freedoms. But overtime it seems to inevitably fail in this and returns to feudalism and authoritarianism. Majorian posted:I'm also not seeing how it isn't guaranteed under socialism. Depends on the flavor of socialism. There are atleast a couple people in this thread that would prefer a leftist authoritarianism to democracy. They are not being incoherent or inconsistent. But those of us that do prefer democracy aren't being incoherent or inconsistent either. But we are being atleast partially liberal.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:12
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Failed Imagineer posted:Pretty sure it's just people wanting the female president they were denied. It's hard to argue with really since theres been 44 dudes in the job  https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1149367883891429376 Crooked put out a poll https://twitter.com/crookedmedia/status/1149333445006352384
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Jul 11, 2019 18:22
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News headline: Bernie Sanders leads crooked poll
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Jul 11, 2019 18:30
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BrandorKP posted:That's what it is fundamentally though. It's the throwing out of feudalism, theocracy, etc, for governments that attempt to be rational and based in personal freedoms. But overtime it seems to inevitably fail in this and returns to feudalism and authoritarianism. You're kind of making my point for me though - liberalism promises individual freedoms for everyone, but only really protects them for a select few. That seems to be pretty deeply baked-in, by design.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:32
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Charlz Guybon posted:I guess he noticed he's drawing about zero African American support Wow, Mayor Pete must be desperate. There's actual policy proposals in this, buried beneath all the fluff (SO MUCH fluff). Some of them are even left of center and not based entirely on subsidizing the free market! The criminal justice reform part in particular is pretty comprehensive. There's only one thing it's missing: the part where it convinces us that the guy who fought to protect racists in his own city's police force can be trusted to crack down on racist police departments nationwide. Dude can't comment on a cop shooting an unarmed man, and he thinks anyone's gonna believe him when he says he'll ban private prisons and abolish the death penalty? Well, no, two things it's missing. It doesn't abolish cash bail, seeking instead to merely lower bail amounts. That's our Buttigieg!
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Jul 11, 2019 18:34
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Pembroke Fuse posted:Credit scores or social credit scores shouldn't exist in the first place...
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Jul 11, 2019 18:40
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Majorian posted:You're kind of making my point for me though - liberalism promises individual freedoms for everyone, but only really protects them for a select few. That seems to be pretty deeply baked-in, by design. Right it fails at justice, that "I and thou" should be treated equal thing. But that's not by design, more it's by lack of design. But it's also a problem for democracy. Which most of us ( but not all) want.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:42
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BrandorKP posted:Right it fails at justice, that "I and thou" should be treated equal thing. But that's not by design, more it's by lack of design. I think you're projecting undeserved benevolent intentions on the designers of liberalism. Thomas Jefferson, for example, didn't really mean that all men are created equal.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:46
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Tibalt posted:Naw, access to credit is necessary to thrive in our economy, and eliminating the credit score just means you're obfuscating the process - something that has historically lead to poo poo outcomes for poor, rural, minority etc. Borrowers Or... we own the means of production publicly and don't have credit.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:48
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Majorian posted:I think you're projecting undeserved benevolent intentions on the designers of liberalism. Thomas Jefferson, for example, didn't really mean that all men are created equal. Some of them did, some did and knew they were hypocritics, and some were liars. But it's not even so much about what was created, it's what was broken. The prophetic and the rational break myths of origin. That same thing you are doing now by bringing up Jefferson. It's a good thing to do that, I'm not implying it's bad. But revolutionary political romantics, ie fascists, appeal to the desire to return to an unbroken myth, eg. MAGA or the blood and soil of the Nazis.
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Jul 11, 2019 19:01
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Failed Imagineer posted:Pretty sure it's just people wanting the female president they were denied. It's hard to argue with really since theres been 44 dudes in the job I could easily see the Hillbots trying to launch some sort of #VoteHerNoMatterWho campaign.
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Jul 11, 2019 19:10
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Majorian posted:You're kind of making my point for me though - liberalism promises individual freedoms for everyone, but only really protects them for a select few. That seems to be pretty deeply baked-in, by design. it's not that liberalism has unique mechanisms that protects them for a select few, its more that (like many other kinds of ~opinions~ that idiots have) it assumes humankind is innately good and will over time bend towards perfection as long as they're given a well maintained habitat in which to evolve via debate. which makes maintaining the institutions a surefire way to improve everything, and damns attempts to improve things now as nothing but risk
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Jul 11, 2019 19:14
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mormonpartyboat posted:it's not that liberalism has unique mechanisms that protects them for a select few, its more that (like many other kinds of ~opinions~ that idiots have) it assumes humankind is innately good and will over time bend towards perfection as long as they're given a well maintained habitat in which to evolve via debate. which makes maintaining the institutions a surefire way to improve everything, and damns attempts to improve things now as nothing but risk Read John Locke. He's pretty unambiguous about his version of liberalism protecting the privilege and wealth of a select few. Like, he's not even subtle about it.
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Jul 11, 2019 19:16
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Charlz Guybon posted:She wasn't a politician at the time. But she's a politician -now- and thus can't be trusted. But if you want to keep sticking your hand in the fire, repeatedly, for the cause of the center-right that keeps swearing up and down that they're really all about Progressive Hope and Change(tm) then be my guest I suppose. Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Crooked put out a poll That's kind of shocking. Aren't those the pod save america weirds?
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Jul 11, 2019 19:20
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FlamingLiberal posted:Biden that low in Iowa is not good for him It's more than 16 times better than he's ever done in Iowa. Joementum is real, my friends. Also, when looking at his 1988 run I learned both that Biden never changes and that he is anti-coke. quote:Once underway, Biden's campaign messaging became confused due to staff rivalries and bickering. Four different themes were presented, sometimes simultaneously: "Pepsi Generation", "Voice of optimism", "Save the children", and "Scold the voters".
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Jul 11, 2019 19:25
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Marxalot posted:But she's a politician -now- and thus can't be trusted. But if you want to keep sticking your hand in the fire, repeatedly, for the cause of the center-right that keeps swearing up and down that they're really all about Progressive Hope and Change(tm) then be my guest I suppose. if you click to their analysis of their poll they have ten bullet points, only two of which mention sanders, and then only as part of the point. the two mentions of sanders are "low awareness voters like sanders" and "sanders supporters are more likely than other candidates' supporters to say that the candidate's positions are important". the latter point is literally the last sentence in the article
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Jul 11, 2019 19:30
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Majorian posted:Read John Locke no
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Jul 11, 2019 19:30
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John Locke ? Satan from Lost ? Is he running now too ?
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Jul 11, 2019 19:33
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I don't often declare myself the winner of a debate, but...  Marxalot posted:That's kind of shocking. Aren't those the pod save america weirds? Yup. It's a good sign; shows that Bernie's ground game is paying off in Iowa, probably better than most polls are letting on.
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Jul 11, 2019 19:33
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Majorian posted:Read John Locke. He's pretty unambiguous about his version of liberalism protecting the privilege and wealth of a select few. I think part of the problem is that people in general, and Brandor in particular, are projecting modern interpretations of terms backward onto their prior or original forms (and in Brandor's case once again trying to shoehorn universalist definitions into places they don't belong). Liberalism, and liberty itself for that matter, were widely understood to be exclusive (ie the prerogative of the quality, or at best just to Europeans) rather than inclusive (ie universal to all humanity) when 17th/18th century thinkers were working them into the western corpus of thought, and both they and modern liberals are miles away from what classical philosophers argued about them.
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Jul 11, 2019 19:35
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