|
Drunkboxer posted:I liked how the bits about incest directly contradicted each other so it casts doubt on the little exposition about the cult that we do get. How’s that? I got up for the bathroom right around the part where the book is bing explained to Josh. I gathered that the writings in there were from the disabled guy but what’s the contradiction?
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 03:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 07:35 |
|
|
Inspector Gesicht posted:Apparently there are three scenes where Connie is heard screaming in the distance? Yeah that’s one of my favorite parts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 03:35
|
|
|
beanieson posted:How’s that? I got up for the bathroom right around the part where the book is bing explained to Josh. I gathered that the writings in there were from the disabled guy but what’s the contradiction? At one point they say that the seers are made by inbreeding, and at another point they say that they observe the incest taboo (with some exceptions for cousins).
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 03:49
|
|
|
Both Us and Midsommer were less impactful for me than the previous movies by the directors but I’d rather rewatch them over a Get Out and Hereditary.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 03:55
|
|
|
Drunkboxer posted:At one point they say that the seers are made by inbreeding, and at another point they say that they observe the incest taboo (with some exceptions for cousins). i think the implication is apart from oracle breeding it’s taboo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 04:01
|
|
|
I quite enjoyed this. Quite a bit easier to read thematically than Hereditary. I found those opening 10 minutes absolutely haunting. I feel between that and the massively traumatic second act in Hereditary there's a bit of a genuine subgenre here: like Real Life Horror or something? I'm trying to think of similar material in other movies but coming up blank. Man those fuckin' tubes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 06:40
|
|
|
I've only caught up to about half the thread. Most of my thoughts were posited already, but I haven't seen anyone mention one small detail: During the opening, Christian's friends (probably Mark) cajole Mark for staying with Dani despite her fear of sex, which Christian then brushes off, pretending it doesn't bother him. Ironically, Christian is eventually forced into empathizing with this fear when he is coerced into the insemination ritual. Also, put me in the camp that says Christian doesn't deserve his fate. Yes, he's a huge rear end in a top hat. He stayed with his girlfriend a year past their break-up, but then stays with her another six months from her trauma. He becomes a terrible boyfriend, but really he's in the position of becoming an rear end in a top hat either way. Her family has just died because her bi-polar sister did a murder-suicide. Dani also suffers bipolar disorder, as we see her take medication for it in the opener. So now Christian either dumps his bi-polar girlfriend who lost everyone she knows, or he stays with her and tries to help as much as he can. The former is the "right" thing to do in the long run, but try explaining that to a relationship based on co-dependency that has been compromised by tragedy. It's not that easy. So instead they ruin each other more and more until Dani is delusional in her co-dependence and Christian is checked-on and emotionally numb towards her. Trying to steal Josh's thesis isn't deserving of death either. Christian's jealous of Josh. Josh and Pele are closer. Josh seems to get respect for his knowledge. Josh is single, has his poo poo together, is intelligent, has agency, and is in his element. It felt like as soon as the trip was over, Christian would have lost interest in the thesis and moved on to the next exciting thing. So yeah, he's an rear end in a top hat, sure, but an rear end in a top hat you probably don't invite to hang around you anymore when your trip is over; not a person you sign over to death. Another thing I haven't seen posited, about the commune's breeding. We are told Oracles are inbred from carefully chosen people who have 'insight', which allows for pure insight instead of mental cloudiness. Pele is explicitly commended at the final ritual for having particular 'insight', and he is given a special head dress for this. I took this as an insinuation that he will eventually be chosen to father a new Oracle, if one is needed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 13:03
|
|
|
This thread is really hung up on whether certain characters “deserved” to die. It’s a horror movie. If it was all people getting their justified comeuppance it wouldn’t be horrifying.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 13:06
|
|
|
Henchman of Santa posted:This thread is really hung up on whether certain characters “deserved” to die. It’s a horror movie. If it was all people getting their justified comeuppance it wouldn’t be horrifying. The decision is really more about her than him
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 13:15
|
|
|
Dani takes an Ativan in the beginning. That’s no indication she is also bipolar.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 13:16
|
|
|
Henchman of Santa posted:This thread is really hung up on whether certain characters “deserved” to die. It’s a horror movie. If it was all people getting their justified comeuppance it wouldn’t be horrifying. That's my point. I'm surprised people thinking the character in question "deserved" to die for small transgressions. No, no they don't. Blast Fantasto posted:Dani takes an Ativan in the beginning. That’s no indication she is also bipolar. Nice catch. I could have sworn it was medication to show she also suffered from bipolar. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Jul 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 13:20
|
|
|
No one thinks Christian LITERALLY deserved to die. He was murdered. That's unequivocally bad. He was, however, like... a bad boyfriend elemental. He shrugs off all his responsibilities as a boyfriend, a friend, and even a person over the course of the film. He's passive and lazy and selfish in a very human way. The language of the film wants you to feel that this metaphorical breakup is a good thing for Dani. Part of the horror of Midsommar, I feel like, was that it reinforces all the things anxiety tells you. Your boyfriend, your friends, none of them like you at all. They're all barely tolerating you and wish you would leave. The only people in the movie we see that seem to like Dani are all malevolent cultists who would be happy to kill her if things panned out a little differently. Everything Dani fears about social interactions turns out to be true.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 13:24
|
|
|
Human posted:No one thinks Christian LITERALLY deserved to die. He was murdered. That's unequivocally bad. He was, however, like... a bad boyfriend elemental. He shrugs off all his responsibilities as a boyfriend, a friend, and even a person over the course of the film. He's passive and lazy and selfish in a very human way. The language of the film wants you to feel that this metaphorical breakup is a good thing for Dani. There are plenty of posters in the first half of this thread that would disagree. I agree that he's an rear end in a top hat, and I know that his ending is triumphant, because the death of their relationship--burning away her toxic/harmful relationships in a cleansing fire--means Dani gets to start a new 'cycle of life'. I just think that the ending is more powerful if you admit that Christian's a bad boyfriend, but not necessarily deserving of his fate. NONE of the characters are, even if the cultists decorate them as if they are. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Jul 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 13:31
|
|
|
Human posted:
This reminds me of Dani's first bad trip when she sees the circle of people laughing. Dani: They're laughing at me! Ingmar: No...? No! They're not laughing at you! Which, if you've ever had a bad trip, was incredibly relatable. Really, the whole emotional vulnerability and the breathing environment of hallucinogens was spot-on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 13:34
|
|
|
Double post.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 13:34
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:I've only caught up to about half the thread. Most of my thoughts were posited already, but I haven't seen anyone mention one small detail: What is your opinion on the state of christian's dick
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 14:21
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:What is your opinion on the state of christian's dick I was over-all surprised that there wasn't more dick, to be honest. Hereditary has more, I think. Also, I was surprised by how graphic the insemination ritual was. It's pretty unusual how much they were willing to show, especially the butt-grab. I feel like a decade a go that scene would have been trimmed big-time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 14:29
|
|
|
the ratings board was probably still reeling from all the gore to have noticed that sex scene.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 14:41
|
|
|
Some people used to say that the anticipation of violence is more effective than the display of violence, and that one's imagination is far greater at conjuring horror than the sight of fake blood everywhere. Those people are, of course, wrong as evidenced by my screening's reaction to a woman's head being bashed open in broad daylight. Jesus Christ, the field of CG and Makeup sure has come a long way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 15:45
|
|
|
Henchman of Santa posted:This thread is really hung up on whether certain characters “deserved” to die. It’s a horror movie. If it was all people getting their justified comeuppance it wouldn’t be horrifying. I think people are tripping over Christian specifically because he’s flawed and makes a ton of bad decisions but is still relatable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 16:14
|
|
|
Maybe I was focusing too much on the extras' performances, maybe I'm overthinking it, but despite their pretense at community and acceptance, the cult's scenes of collective grief seemed entirely performative and ritualized. Like, for all of their wailing and contorting, their faces were remarkably blank, devoid of any real sadness. Hell, a lot of the time it looked like they could barely hide their glee. For example, when pep-pep took the plunge some of them sure looked excited that they'd get to use that giant  mallet, despite it ostensibly being a tragedy/bad luck. The elaborate ways the cultists torture-killed their victims also suggests that they definitely relished the whole murder part of their festival rather than seeing it as just a spiritual obligation.I guess what I'm saying is that Midsommar 2 and Midsommar 3, which will show off the proceeding six days of celebration, are gonna get real weird with it. Mordja fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Jul 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 16:39
|
|
|
Mordja posted:Maybe I was focusing too much on the extras' performances, maybe I'm overthinking it, but despite their pretense at community and acceptance, the cult's scenes of collective grief seemed entirely performative and ritualized. Like, for all of their wailing and contorting, their faces were remarkably blank, devoid of any real sadness. Hell, a lot of the time it looked like they could barely hide their glee. For example, when pep-pep took the plunge some of them sure looked excited that they'd get to use that giant That's the whole point of ritual, tho. Of course they can't feel everyone's pain on the spot, but they can try, and in doing so it lessens the burden for the person that is hurting (in theory, obviously the dude burning alive or flayed on a rock aren't going to get physical relief from it). It externalizes the internal into a form that can be confronted and transfigured.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 16:50
|
|
|
Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:That's the whole point of ritual, tho. Of course they can't feel everyone's pain on the spot, but they can try, and in doing so it lessens the burden for the person that is hurting (in theory, obviously the dude burning alive or flayed on a rock aren't going to get physical relief from it). It externalizes the internal into a form that can be confronted and transfigured. Originally I thought it was demonstrating how supportive the cult was to its members feelings and emotions, trying to take them on and to help carry the burden. I think it’s a lot more insidious than that now that I’ve sat with it. It’s part of an old system where individual members of the cult are just parts of a whole and don’t matter in the long run. Ritualistically externalizing terror and pain makes it seem like it’s something they’re all doing and helps hide the fact that they’re murdering tons of people The cult seems weird and bad. I’d rather join the Wickman guys, their music is better anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 17:06
|
|
|
beanieson posted:the ratings board was probably still reeling from all the gore to have noticed that sex scene. The sex scene was probably the rating boards kind of jam.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 17:10
|
|
|
Inspector Gesicht posted:Some people used to say that the anticipation of violence is more effective than the display of violence, and that one's imagination is far greater at conjuring horror than the sight of fake blood everywhere. Those people are, of course, wrong as evidenced by my screening's reaction to a woman's head being bashed open in broad daylight. Jesus Christ, the field of CG and Makeup sure has come a long way. The heads made me so happy, that was some good stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 17:48
|
|
|
they should do a theatrical release of "the strange thing about the johnsons" now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 17:59
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:they should do a theatrical release of "the strange thing about the johnsons" now. It should run before Midsommar like an old cartoon
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 18:20
|
|
|
Blast Fantasto posted:It should run before Midsommar like an old cartoon It did kinda remind me of a Pepe le Pew cartoon.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
porfiria posted:I quite enjoyed this. Quite a bit easier to read thematically than Hereditary. I found those opening 10 minutes absolutely haunting. I feel between that and the massively traumatic second act in Hereditary there's a bit of a genuine subgenre here: like Real Life Horror or something? I'm trying to think of similar material in other movies but coming up blank. I'd suggest checking out Trey Edward Shults' work. Krisha isn't a horror film, but it nails the same familial/relationship dread that Hereditary and Midsommar both excel at.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:they should do a theatrical release of "the strange thing about the johnsons" now. Hell yeah dude.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 18:55
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:Nice catch. I could have sworn it was medication to show she also suffered from bipolar. I think it was shorthand for some sort of anxiety disorder, probably made exponentially worse after the murder suicide. She spirals into an anxiety attack just from someone saying the word "family" a couple times in the first half.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 19:45
|
|
|
Between this and The Ritual I'm just never gonna go to the backwoods of Sweden E: ^one of those times she's on shrooms, and someone with a pre-existing anxiety disorder who has recently experienced incredible emotional trauma and is in an unfamiliar place with people she either doesn't like much or is in a toxic relationship with, is like the last person who should ever do shrooms Phy fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jul 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 19:48
|
|
|
Phy posted:Between this and The Ritual I'm just never gonna go to the backwoods of Sweden Just bring an axe and lay off the mushrooms for a bit. That seems to be the key.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 19:50
|
|
|
I caught this yesterday and I'm still kind of processing it, I thought I didn't like it when I left the theater but then I was awake until 4 in the morning thinking about it. So it left some kind of impact on me besides gringos be crazy. The sound for this movie was amazing but even though it's not the composer's fault how my dumb brain connects things there was a music cue that was played a few times that kept pulling me out of the movie a bit because all I could think of was this https://youtu.be/e8Yq_6tYQAE Overall I think I liked hereditary more but that may change as more gears grind into place considering I didn't even know if I liked the movie less then 24 hours ago and now I think it might be one of my favorite movies this year.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 22:04
|
|
|
Also, did anyone else notice when they're driving the truck at the commune, there was flashing red and blue lights like the police lights at the suicide? It may have been hard to notice since it's daylight, but I definitely noticed it on trees and foliage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 22:09
|
|
|
Blast Fantasto posted:Dani takes an Ativan in the beginning. That’s no indication she is also bipolar. Yes. It's an anti-anxiety medication similar to Xanax. It speaks more to the complete lack of support Dani is getting in her personal relationships. She needs to medicate to function through her anxiety over her sister because she effectively has no support systems. Which isn't just because Christian sucks, I don't think. I got the sense that, prior to the murder-suicide, Dani's parents also dropped the ball and underestimated how severe the situation was with their daughter. It seemed like Dani took it extremely seriously, and nobody else in her life did. "She just wants attention," "your sister does this," etc. Her family's death left her alone, but Dani's level of insecurity and lack of confidence in herself or her relationships didn't seem like a new phenomenon at all. But this may be me editorializing. I don't recall where Dani was from, but it felt very much like a white New England family that prioritizes appearances and saving face over emotional honesty or clear communication. Mental illness is not something a family like that can cope with, or even something they want to admit exists. Basically, if Dani was from a loving and supportive home, I don't think she'd have been with Christian for that long in the first place, let alone would she have been so susceptible to the community ethos of the cult.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 22:27
|
|
|
Xealot posted:Yes. It's an anti-anxiety medication similar to Xanax. It speaks more to the complete lack of support Dani is getting in her personal relationships. She needs to medicate to function through her anxiety over her sister because she effectively has no support systems. I saw it as much a commentary on hyper atomized post industrial life as much as anything. Like presumably Dani would have just gone to her parents’ place to check on them but they probably live hundreds of miles away, contra the cult who live inches from each other.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 22:34
|
|
|
I did wonder whether the movie was trying to leave at least some ambiguity around whether Pelle was involved in the family’s deaths. He’s immediately supportive of Dani coming, is clearly interested in her, and his backup plan is using his Unclouded Intuition to bring along three self-involved dipshits. Feels like a stretch but it occurred to me
morestuff fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jul 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 22:42
|
|
|
Xealot posted:Yes. It's an anti-anxiety medication similar to Xanax. It speaks more to the complete lack of support Dani is getting in her personal relationships. She needs to medicate to function through her anxiety over her sister because she effectively has no support systems. Uh the idea that a person with support systems won’t need medication for anxiety, depression etc is extremely what the gently caress
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 23:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 07:35 |
|
|
DeimosRising posted:Uh the idea that a person with support systems won’t need medication for anxiety, depression etc is E: I think Xealot's post is more nuanced, but I noticed that element, too. bort fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jul 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2019 23:39
|
|
